Info 64MB V-Cache on 5XXX Zen3 Average +15% in Games

[Kedas]

Well we know now how they will bridge the long wait to Zen4 on AM5 Q4 2022.
Production start for V-cache is end this year so too early for Zen4 so this is certainly coming to AM4.
+15% Lisa said is "like an entire architectural generation"

 

[Asterox]

Why is the release date of Zen 3D such a contentious issue? I don't see the point of so many posts debating that. I do have to question AMD's motive for announcing it months before it intends to release it. Is it worried that it may lose the performance crown to Intel with the launch of Alder Lake?

3D-V Cache, it is a technology that has been in preparation for three years.If the information is to be believed(it is kinda of expected), it is even planned for a Zen 2 CPU-s.

When Zen2 launched(July 2019), in reality Intel was still more or less on top(not too much) in single or Multithread charts.We know the rest, R5 3600 sales exploded and very quickly became by far the best-selling CPU in the DIY market.

Intel has its various problems, various delays and nm problems.

AMD depends on "when and how quickly TSMC can effectively implement a particular technology".

 

[moinmoin]

I do have to question AMD's motive for announcing it months before it intends to release it.

Does AMD have anything else officially announced aside the public expectation that Zen 4 based products will arrive in an essentially completely undefined future?

 

[Joe NYC]

Dear God... just how high your horse is when you think of yourself as a thinker with a beautifully complicated mind?

I do wonder what it is like, being an "x + 3 month" thinker - and getting the wrong answer.

That's got to lead to some reflection. Like:
"Was it the + 3 that was wrong"
"What is x? Isn't it, like - the unknown"
"Can unknown ever be known?"
"x + 3 is fundamental axiom of the natural sciences, that surely can't be wrong"

 

[Joe NYC]

Why is the release date of Zen 3D such a contentious issue? I don't see the point of so many posts debating that. I do have to question AMD's motive for announcing it months before it intends to release it. Is it worried that it may lose the performance crown to Intel with the launch of Alder Lake?

AMD just announced the technology and showed a prototype. Actual products, names / code names or SKUs none of that was announced.

I don't think it is even comparable to Intel, which has been hyping Alder Lake, seemingly non-stop.

The contention is that a lot of posters seem to think that AMD, which has a goal to be the leader of High Performance Computing - should just take a break (for months to a year) from being a leader of High Performance Computing, that AMD should not go the extra mile to retain the crown of the High Performance Computing leader.

 

[Joe NYC]

Does AMD have anything else officially announced aside the public expectation that Zen 4 based products will arrive in an essentially completely undefined future?

The only advantage of the extreme secrecy, on part of AMD, is if Intel is also in the dark.

And there is some evidence of that actually working to some extend - as in keeping Intel in the dark. Do you remember AdoreTV video that used a leaked Intel analysis of future AMD server CPUs? Most notably, it did not have V-Cache as part of the analysis, Intel did not know the future competition would be Zen + V-Cache:

 

[UsandThem]

It contradicts interpretation of the most simple minded thinkers, who can't see the big picture.

There were pages and pages of replies berating me for suggesting that AMD and TSMC will make it happen, will get Zen 3D into the market place by the time it needs to be in market place - by Q4 2021

Dear God... just how high your horse is when you think of yourself as a thinker with a beautifully complicated mind?

I do wonder what it is like, being an "x + 3 month" thinker - and getting the wrong answer.

That's got to lead to some reflection. Like:
"Was it the + 3 that was wrong"
"What is x? Isn't it, like - the unknown"
"Can unknown ever be known?"
"x + 3 is fundamental axiom of the natural sciences, that surely can't be wrong"

The personal insults need to stop.
@Joe NYC @lobz

AT Mod Usandthem

 

[Asterox]

The Zen 2 in consoles and APU has 1/4 of the L3 cache. It doesn't seem to make a big difference. Why would doubling the Zen 3 L3 cache give +15% gaming performance?

Yes, there are no big differences in CPU only performance for example R5 4650G/8MB L3 vs R5 3600/32mb L3.

The AMD Ryzen 7 5700G, Ryzen 5 5600G, and Ryzen 3 5300G Review

www.anandtech.com

Page 19 - Info - 64MB V-Cache on 5XXX Zen3 Average +15% in Games

Page 19 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

forums.anandtech.com

There are significant differences in gaming with dedicated GPU. But not always, or in every game or gaming example.

Zen 3 CPU is substantially different or faster, and that’s why it can make much better use of a larger amount of 3D V-Cache.

 

[Joe NYC]

This leak of Zen 3 Threadripper 5000x benchmark looks too good vs. Zen 2 Threadripper. I am not sure if these are valid apples to apples.




Threadripper Pro 5995WX Thrashes 3995WX In Photogrammetry Benchmarks | Tom's Hardware (tomshardware.com)

Edit, I can't make any sense out of these results...

 

[Hans Gruber]

It's about time AMD brings out the Zen 3 threadripper. I was worried that AMD would give ground to Intel in the CPU arms race. The new Intel stuff looks pretty good performance wise, until you see the god awful power consumption numbers compared to AMD.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Do you remember AdoreTV video that used a leaked Intel analysis of future AMD server CPUs? Most notably, it did not have V-Cache as part of the analysis, Intel did not know the future competition would be Zen + V-Cache:

Intel is already deluding themselves if they think Sapphire Rapids would stack up that well against Genoa.

The new Intel stuff looks pretty good performance wise

What new stuff? Intel has nothing coming on the horizon for HEDT.

 

[Joe NYC]

Intel is already deluding themselves if they think Sapphire Rapids would stack up that well against Genoa.

From a snapshot I posted, which apparently is Intel internal document, Intel is quite aware of the challenge Genoa will pose SPR, and that super expensive SPR+HBM will only improve the situation in a few areas.

What new stuff? Intel has nothing coming on the horizon for HEDT.

I think AMD has quite a bit work fully leverage all the pieces of technology they have, to fully capture the HEDT segment.

I am posting this on an aging Intel HEDT PC, and I haven't found a worthy upgrade from Intel, and AMD is quite far from the sweet spot, where the HEDT should start (it is too expensive)

Perhaps AMD thought this market is too small to re-spin the I/O die that would better fit this segment - maybe 1 to 4 CCDx (8 to 32 cores), 4 memory channels, half of server PCI lanes.

But it became a self-fulfilling prophecy - the market ended up being too small since the entry price is too high.

 

[Borealis7]

so my Kaby Lake is approaching 5 years old, do you suppose i will have an alternative to Alder Lake from AMD to buy around Dec21-Jan22?
or should i hold on and wait for new GPUs?

 

[DrMrLordX]

so my Kaby Lake is approaching 5 years old, do you suppose i will have an alternative to Alder Lake from AMD to buy around Dec21-Jan22?
or should i hold on and wait for new GPUs?

Moving to 8c Golden Cove + whatever Gracemont should be a substantial upgrade for you. A 5950X might still wind up being faster in MT, but honestly . . . are you going to want that much MT performance? Especially coming from a 7700k? Unless Zen3d shows up big, you should be looking at Zen4/Raphael or Alder Lake.

 

[Borealis7]

Moving to 8c Golden Cove + whatever Gracemont should be a substantial upgrade for you. A 5950X might still wind up being faster in MT, but honestly . . . are you going to want that much MT performance? Especially coming from a 7700k? Unless Zen3d shows up big, you should be looking at Zen4/Raphael or Alder Lake.

no, i don't need that much MT performance. Zen4 is Ryzen 7000 series, right? so 2 generations from today?

 

[Thibsie]

no, i don't need that much MT performance. Zen4 is Ryzen 7000 series, right? so 2 generations from today?

AFAICT, the next one.
I don't expect a 6xxx numbering for Zen3d but that's nomenclature.
Zen 4 should be end of 2022. That's a lot more relevant IMO

 

[DrMrLordX]

Zen 4 should be end of 2022.

That's still conjecture at this point. Could be Q2 2022. AMD is not helping people out with much solid information.

 

[igor_kavinski]

That's still conjecture at this point. Could be Q2 2022. AMD is not helping people out with much solid information.

AMD seems to have released a new generation every 14 months or so, except 5000 series which was almost 16 months after 3000 series. Q2 2022 seems a tad too optimistic. But AMD is welcome to prove me wrong

 

[rainy]

AMD seems to have released a new generation every 14 months or so, except 5000 series which was almost 16 months after 3000 series. Q2 2022 seems a tad too optimistic. But AMD is welcome to prove me wrong

If AMD will release Zen 4 in Q2 next year, that would be 17-19 months after Zen 3 (early November last year).

 

[Thibsie]

That's still conjecture at this point. Could be Q2 2022. AMD is not helping people out with much solid information.

True and true, alas.

 

[eek2121]

If AMD will release Zen 4 in Q2 next year, that would be 17-19 months after Zen 3 (early November last year).

You are skipping Zen3D. I am surprised AMD is delivering Zen4 next year at all.

 

[HurleyBird]

The Zen 2 in consoles and APU has 1/4 of the L3 cache. It doesn't seem to make a big difference. Why would doubling the Zen 3 L3 cache give +15% gaming performance?

Consoles games are able to specifically target the CPU's attributes, and in in console APUs cache is competing for die space with more cores and more CUs.

 

[Joe NYC]

You are skipping Zen3D. I am surprised AMD is delivering Zen4 next year at all.

I might go with Zen3D and not wait for Zen4. Mostly because my Intel HEDT (Haswell) system is so old...

There will be Zen 4 in 2022. Genoa definitely.

Desktop? Maybe.

It might be interesting strategy for AMD, if the big server MCM is the first Zen 4, an interesting strategy would be to release the Threadripper ahead of regular desktop Ryzen...

 

[Borealis7]

its interesting that neither company has anything new for the "Back to School" / "Back to Zoom" season in the mobile space.
with all the remote learning, demand for laptops must be yuuuuuj.

 

[Thibsie]

Well, Lenovo isn't even able to pull all the stuff announced in February/March.
Still trying to find a T14 AMD gen2.
No way..

 

[moinmoin]

its interesting that neither company has anything new for the "Back to School" / "Back to Zoom" season in the mobile space.
with all the remote learning, demand for laptops must be yuuuuuj.

The 3000G is still effective unobtainium, has been this way since February after AMD announced the 3000 C-series based on the same die. Can only guess all the existing dies are going straight to the Chromebook market.

With everything overwhelmed by demand there's not really a need to create even more demand by announcing new stuff, is there?