6700K price going up??? Now $399.99 @ Newegg

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Fjodor2001

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2010
3,938
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Nobody is going to tell you the exact cost. But IBS estimates around 500-1000M$ for a 14/16nm design as average. For R&D its quite obvious it only goes one way. Same for volume.

I dont think you understand Moore´s law.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law

You forgot how much the 486 sold compared to the 386.

You still haven't documented the design costs. And $1B is nothing compared to the process tech R&D cost anyway. So your claim that the design costs are so high that they'll wreck cost/transistor reduction benefits of Moore's law for Intel's desktop CPUs turned out to be incorrect.
 
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Fjodor2001

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2010
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Oh come on, wikipedia? If you take the CPI numbers from the US Gov seriously, you're cracked in the head my friend. I go by the costs of everyday items I need to live.

Ok, so what you personally buy and "think" has gone up should be the common definition of current inflation? Not official sources e.g. referenced at Wikipedia, which are from the "World Bank. Retrieved 2 November 2015" (i.e. not US Gov as you claimed)?

Then you call me "cracked in the head"? You're hilarious.
 

Fjodor2001

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2010
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Yes, 4$. With a 5.6$ inflation. That means the 6700K is 1.6$ less in real price than the 4790K was.

Again, where can you buy the Intel recommended TS15A cooler for $4?

Also, you forgot to include the price increase from not passing on the cost/transistor reduction from Moore's law to the consumers.
 

dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
2,655
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Again, where can you buy the Intel recommended TS15A cooler for $4?

Also, you forgot to include the price increase from not passing on the cost/transistor reduction from Moore's law to the consumers.
And... He forgot the delivery cost and the inflation...

BTW... Here in Peru the 6700 k is in the insane cost of... 560 DOLLARS...
Totally insane!
http://www.compuvisionperu.pe/intel-1151/808-core-i7-6700k-8m-40-ghz-lga-1151.html
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
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Amazon US - $454.99. Checked 10 min ago, had 17 in stock. Now only 15 left. Core i5 6600K is almost $300 with shipping. Hurry before these i5s and i7s are all sold out!

Why would anyone want one of these over a 4790K?

The better question is why buy it over the 5820K? i7 4790K comes with DDR3, and almost all Z97 motherboards besides a few limited M.2 to PCIe 2.0 x4, not PCIe 3.0 x4, which understandably some people don't want. At least with 5820K you can get solid DDR4 that can be reused in the future, Ultra M.2 and even more PCIe lanes than Z170. 5820K @ 4.5Ghz is a beast, and X99 has ample solid upgrade path to i7 6800K-6950X while Z170 is just Kaby-Lake, same old quad-core with minor increases in IPC and useless iGPU.
 
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Ranulf

Platinum Member
Jul 18, 2001
2,411
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Ok, so what you personally buy and "think" has gone up should be the common definition of current inflation? Not official sources e.g. referenced at Wikipedia, which are from the "World Bank. Retrieved 2 November 2015" (i.e. not US Gov as you claimed)?

Then you call me "cracked in the head"? You're hilarious.

You can trust the World Bank or US all you want. You're foolish to trust them. Their numbers don't match up with what I see every day in the real world. Inflation at 1.6 is ignoring my healthcare costs going up 60% or my rent $100 more a month.

Again, where can you buy the Intel recommended TS15A cooler for $4?

Also, you forgot to include the price increase from not passing on the cost/transistor reduction from Moore's law to the consumers.

He forgot shipping too.
 
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ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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You still haven't documented the design costs. And $1B is nothing compared to the process tech R&D cost anyway. So your claim that the design costs are so high that they'll wreck cost/transistor reduction benefits of Moore's law for Intel's desktop CPUs turned out to be incorrect.

Dont ask others for documentation when you supply none. Its the typical goalpost shift and double standards by yourself to promote your crusade.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,845
5,457
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Amazon US - $454.99. Checked 10 min ago, had 17 in stock. Now only 15 left. Core i5 6600K is almost $300 with shipping. Hurry before these i5s and i7s are all sold out!

You do realize that is a third party seller (even if it is 'fulfilled by Amazon')? This happens all the time on Amazon when Amazon itself doesn't have any stock. Same thing with Newegg's auto-gouger.
 

Fjodor2001

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2010
3,938
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Dont ask others for documentation when you supply none. Its the typical goalpost shift and double standards by yourself to promote your crusade.

Wut? It's you that is shifting goalposts, having double standards and not providing documentation. As usual.

Looks like you're having a severe case of your psychological projection disorder again.

Why don't you answer the questions instead!?
 
Mar 10, 2006
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You do realize that is a third party seller (even if it is 'fulfilled by Amazon')? This happens all the time on Amazon when Amazon itself doesn't have any stock. Same thing with Newegg's auto-gouger.

What's amazing is that people are actually paying these prices instead of buying 5820Ks.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
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What's amazing is that people are actually paying these prices instead of buying 5820Ks.

Well, Amazon no longer has any stock of the 5820K so the price is much higher, and the 4790K at $299 is 'exclusively for Prime members'. This does start to feel like a coordinated attempt to get Haswell stock depleted.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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Well, Amazon no longer has any stock of the 5820K so the price is much higher, and the 4790K at $299 is 'exclusively for Prime members'. This does start to feel like a coordinated attempt to get Haswell stock depleted.

What stock?

Its rather a higher than expected demand. Skylake and Haswell. 4790K chips are vanishing too. The fast row of AAA titles seems to have caught all the supply.
 
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poohbear

Platinum Member
Mar 11, 2003
2,284
5
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I still remember how I got my 4790k for $300 straight while in Tokyo's akihabara techno area. Didn't have to pay tax as a tourist, just show ur passport & ure good to go. they sold it for 300 if u bought it with a mobo. That was Aug 2014, the same weekend they released the 6 core haswells so they had all kinds of deals. I go every 3-4 years for vacation so...about how long these cpus last nowadays!(well maybe my next next vacation as I see myself using the 4790k 6 years from now at current rate of development) Lol vacation & comp upgrade all in one!
 
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RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
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You do realize that is a third party seller (even if it is 'fulfilled by Amazon')? This happens all the time on Amazon when Amazon itself doesn't have any stock. Same thing with Newegg's auto-gouger.

That's precisely the point I made - it's supply vs. demand, not inflation. Amazon has no units in stock, which results in 3rd party suppliers filling in those orders. Yesterday, one 3rd party supplier had at least 17 in stock @ $454.99 when I posted. Today, those are all sold out and Amazon algorithm picks the next (high rated) supplier for product fulfillment, not necessarily the cheapest supplier. Stating that Intel excess demand or shortage of supply are the primary issues are both correct. The reasons for supply constraint is what we don't know - is it yield, wafer capacity, fab capacity, failure to order enough wafers initially, etc. We don't know but it doesn't matter for us as consumers. We just want reasonable prices.

What's the price today? $474.99 from a 3rd party, until Amazon has its own inventory restocking on November 25, 2015. You have limited supply and when the supply runs out, 3rd parties step in and because they know there is limited supply, they opportunistically raise prices. The only way for prices to fall is for more inventory to be supplied around MSRP. This is the exact definition of supply & demand, not inflation.

Same reason i5 6600K is at least $280 on Amazon. That means either of two scenarios: Intel has failed to estimate demand correctly and didn't provide enough inventory to meet the quantity demanded OR they are having supply issues which means inventory is allocated based on other criteria such as profit margins, OEM contracts, etc. not necessarily quantity demanded. For example, since Amazon is such a large wholesaler in the Internet sales space, it has far higher bargaining power to ask for lower prices from Intel than some other players. It may not be advantageous for Intel to supply the most chips to Amazon since they may have the lowest profit margins with that company. With production shortage, strategic supply re-allocation to align with other goals (winning new customers, attaining highest profitability, etc.) could be one explanation but not the only one.

What really sets a bad precedent is that those $455 i7 6700K all sold out anyway. Hopefully the situation goes back to normal sooner than later because we wouldn't want Intel to get any ideas that a $450 quad-core i7 is somehow still a great value.

What stock?

Its rather a higher than expected demand.

It would be almost trivial to separate the supply from demand here as they are inter-related. If you have higher demand but cannot meet the quantity demand, you are supply-constrained.

'There will be a major shortage of Skylake CPUs until end of November'
"Intel announced the full boxed retail launch at IFA last week, with the company saying the processors "deliver some of the most significant advancements in computing that we've ever seen". Intel has been generally quiet on the stock shortages, though a spokesperson previously told Kitguru: "We are experiencing supply tightness due to strong demand and expect additional volume to be available as Q3 progresses." However, PCR understands that the new Skylake processors - particularly the higher-end i7-6700K - won't be ready available until Q4.

"Intel doesn't have as many 6700k as they want, so it's in major shortage, and is predicted to be so until the end of November," a senior distribution source told PCR."


If supply was a worldwide issue, we'd see shortages outside of North America. Sounds like someone just did a very poor job of estimating the demand for K series in North America but we cannot completely rule out a supply constraint as well. The end result is in Europe the i7 6700K is sitting on the shelves since there is excess inventory but in the US there isn't enough inventory. Logistically it would be too expensive to suddenly ship the excess inventory from Europe to North America. Either way it's not conclusive that there are yield/fab-wide supply issues or we'd see worldwide shortages that mimic Nintendo's Wii. It could also be a supply (logistics) issue because if 100 chips leave the factory, the chips intended for North America could take much longer to arrive from a logistics stand-point than the ones intended for Asia, Middle-East and Europe. On paper, the allocated supply could meet the demand, but with added logistics time, the excess quantity demanded would become greater than the initial quantity supplied after accounting for the logistics delay. Of course that's why someone would be in charge of re-allocating the inventory accordingly. At the same time if the inventory turn-over is very quick in Europe, if Intel were to re-assign more supply from Europe to US, they'd become supply constrained in Europe. That's why Intel needs to produce more chips.

You still haven't documented the design costs. And $1B is nothing compared to the process tech R&D cost anyway. So your claim that the design costs are so high that they'll wreck cost/transistor reduction benefits of Moore's law for Intel's desktop CPUs turned out to be incorrect.

He has been claiming the above for 3.5+ years now since NV doubled the prices of GPUs during Kepler generation. It's his way of justifying how mid-range $499 680 and $549 980 are reasonably priced for consumers. And if Intel drops the 8-core 6900K for $599-699, his theories will be even more undermined.

All we need to do is just look at Intel's and NV's historical market pricing and their current product pricing to prove his statements wrong. NV increased its gross margins nearly 45% from 38% to 55% range since 2009. Intel's gross margins is even better, 63-65%. Higher manufacturing costs is just PR BS used to justify higher prices (or how prices stay relatively the same while more transistors are allocated towards the iGPU some of us don't want at all, when instead they could be used to add more cores - thank you HEDT) you hear from Intel/NV equity holders or direct/indirect employees of these firms who have vested interest in the success of these firms.
 
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Mar 10, 2006
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RussianSensation, I think what's happening is that Intel is having supply problems (thanks, 14nm yields) and it needs to make sure that its OEM customers get Skylake supply first. Only then will it dribble out some parts into the retail channel for people like you and me to buy.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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Supply in Europe is low too, just check Geizhals for 6700K. Even my local hardware pusher ran out too.

I know from a friend that works at a major distributor in sales what's in low supply and what's isn't (For Scandinavia region). There is a heavy sales move in higher end bins. Just as we saw in graphics.
 
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VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,453
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There is a heavy sales move in higher end bins. Just as we saw in graphics.

Would you, or anyone else, say that there is more "value for customer", in the highest-end bins, rather than the lowest (Pentium, Celeron Core, not Atom)?

I'm curious what people think of buying strictly high-end, versus low-end. Given the "great CPU performance-increase slowdown" these days, maybe it's true.

Then again, BDW-E is looking really tasty, for an upgrade.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
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Would you, or anyone else, say that there is more "value for customer", in the highest-end bins, rather than the lowest (Pentium, Celeron Core, not Atom)?

I'm curious what people think of buying strictly high-end, versus low-end. Given the "great CPU performance-increase slowdown" these days, maybe it's true.

Then again, BDW-E is looking really tasty, for an upgrade.

You do get what you pay for. And its quite obvious that a weaker system will get older faster than a more powerful one. Companies buy i3 as entry for the same reason.

Also there is the productivity/enjoyment factor.

However for these sales you are going to find the reason in AAA games. Specially Fallout 4 with an i7 4790 as recommended.
 
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jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
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You do get what you pay for. And its quite obvious that a weaker system will get older faster than a more powerful one. Companies buy i3 as entry for the same reason.

Also there is the productivity/enjoyment factor.

It's actually quite difficult to find a "business" laptop with Celeron or Pentium. Intel is pretty deliberately keeping Celeron and Pentium away from business. Still, I'm sure plenty of companies find good use of the manageability features that Core has. If it was about productivity, SSDs for instance would have become mainstream much faster.
 

Zodiark1593

Platinum Member
Oct 21, 2012
2,230
4
81
You do get what you pay for. And its quite obvious that a weaker system will get older faster than a more powerful one. Companies buy i3 as entry for the same reason.

Also there is the productivity/enjoyment factor.
Yet for some god-forsaken reason, companies always go with slow laptop 5400 rpm HDDs and 4 GB RAM as standards in their SFF systems. For a lot of machines not subjected to heavy cpu workloads, there would be far less time waiting with Pentium + SSD combos, especially during patch Tuesday where updates can take an ungodly amount of time.

Over here, since vPro is standard, i5s and i7s are used for all desktops here, which btw never see anything beyond 10% utilization except for the ones in workstations (which is all of 7% of PCs here). Yet the slow laptop HDD and 4 GB RAM all around here. Horribly unbalanced machines for their mundane task.
 
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RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
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RussianSensation, I think what's happening is that Intel is having supply problems (thanks, 14nm yields) and it needs to make sure that its OEM customers get Skylake supply first. Only then will it dribble out some parts into the retail channel for people like you and me to buy.

Ya, so what's the point of all the bickering and some arguments in this thread? I don't get the point some are trying to make or what is everyone arguing about when it's clearly supply vs. demand.

Newegg Canada - $530+$12 shipping add tax = $612 CDN, yet it's OOS :thumbsdown:

Amazon Canada - $591.95 + tax = $669 CDN :thumbsdown:

NCIX Canada - backordered until December 28, 2015. What about in a combo? Nope, not available.

PCCanada - OOS indefinitely

Canada Computers - $509 + tax = $575 CDN. (Converted, this is $430 US!) for a quad in 2015. Are they kidding?)

If someone has a decent rig, the solution isn't to freak out but just wait for 6800K. Paying almost $600 CDN for a glorified i5 sounds absurd to me even if I have the $ - it's a matter of principle. If someone is already spending that much $, why in the world would they want to get a quad-core?

So many reviews/benches/YouTube reviews already showed 5820K OC beating 6700K OC overall. The 5820K is barely slower in games but it's way faster in multi-tasking and 6800K will clobber the i7 6700K even more. Also, Z170 is going to be a dead end platform with quad-cores while X99 gives you options down the line to get an 8/10 and even 12-18 core Xeons (think how X58 users are dropping in Xeons now). X99 platform has more PCIe lanes too.

This is very similar to the old the days of E6800/E8400 series vs. Q6600/Q9550. Long-term, slightly higher single core performance doesn't matter but if you run an app that's well multi-threaded, you cannot just magically produce extra cores out of thin air and you cannot upgrade since your mobo is stuck on quads max.
 
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