6800 Ultra givin' me grief. Please have a seat.

[bigwayne]

Hi everyone, I'm a new user here, and this seems to be the most widely used forum around for this kind of stuff, so I figured I'd give this another shot.

So I bought three 6800 Ultras from PNY on pre-order, bought them for three machines in my house. specs on those are as follows:

Mobo: DFI LanParty NFII Ultra B
CPU: AMD Athlon XP 3200+, Volcano 11 Cooler
HD: [74.0Gb Western Digital Raptor @ 10000rpm 8Mb Cache SATA]
[200.0Gb Western Digital @ 7200rpm 8Mb Cache SATA]
Mem: 1GB OCZ Platinum Edition PC3200
PSU: Antec True550 550 Watt

Mobo: DFI LanParty NFII Ultra B
CPU: AMD Athlon XP 3200+, Volcano 11 Cooler
HD: [74.0Gb Western Digital Raptor @ 10000rpm 8Mb Cache SATA]
[80.0Gb Western Digital SE @ 7200rpm 8Mb Cache]
[200.0Gb Western Digital @ 7200rpm 8Mb Cache SATA]
Mem: 1GB OCZ Platinum Edition PC3200
PSU: Antec True550 550 Watt

Mobo: ECS L7VTA
CPU: AMD Athlon XP2600+, AMD, Volcano 11 Cooler
HD: [80.0Gb Maxtor DiamondMax @ 7200rpm]
Mem: 1GB Corsair PC3200
PSU: Antec TrueControl550 550 Watt

Immediately I started having troubles with the 6800 Ultras on all three machines. Symptoms include:
- Lock-ups, sound skips. Later to come out of these loops.
- Rebooting after Hard Locks.
- Video curruption after lock-ups.
- Funky diagonal striping with little or no warning.
- BSOD's after Lock-ups (when the computer doesn't just reset itself, almost always points to nv4_disp).
NOTE: Symptoms that result in artifacting require a reboot to fix

The conditions for these lock-ups are:
- America's Army (Artifacting issues at begin of load of a new map, lock-ups often resulting in artifacting. Also reboots on its own with no warning)
- Battlefield 1942 (Crashes to Desktop after locking up, if it recovers, more than likely with artifacting and other issues related to shading objects)
- Counter-Strike 1.x (automatically causes a hard lock or reboots, never comes out of these, seemed to be caused by particles, and/or smoke grenades)
- Counter-Strike Source Beta (this is a more recent occurance, it started about a week ago with locking up when first joining a server, it comes out of this always after about 30 seconds with no artifacting, unlike other lock-ups. This seemed to have coincided with a patch to CS:Source Beta done in September sometime)
- Counter-Strike Source [Full] (Lock-ups not unlike the ones seen in the later weeks of Source Beta, happen about three minutes apart from each other at any given time [aka no heavy load])
- Doom 3 (Lock-ups at start of a new map, more often than not coming back with artifacting, making it impossible to play the game)
- Joint Operations: Typhoon Rising (On Systems 1 and 2, At load of a new map causes lock-up. 50/50 chance of coming back with curruption. Random diagonal line attacks)
- Star Wars: Battlefront (Diagonal striping after first loading a map. The game sucks anyhow so its no big loss)
- Star Wars: Galaxies (Cannot take screenshots in the game [Get generalized "DirectX Failure" message]. When in windowed mode, and with winamp or any other software

that utilizes graphics [IE: IE ] machine will hard lock, and reboot. Other instances of lock-ups sometimes come out with artifacting and curruption everywhere)
- Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (Doesn't happen often, but sometimes the game locks up when loading a new zone [if it even loads, thats another problem])
- The Sims 2 (Frequent lockups on System 2, have had better luck on System 1. These lockups cause artifacting, or diagonal striping resulting in the need for a reboot)
- Internet Explorer (Ever scroll fast through a page using a 6800 Ultra? Yea I have, and my computer never lives to tell the tale, lockups with frequent artifacting)
NOTE: Theres probably a lot more issues I'm just too traumatized to remember at the moment Also, games are running at highest screensize (System 2 limited to 12x9 due to LCD) with no AA or AS (hate that, messes with my aim)

My opinions on these lockups are that anything using OpenGL automatically will have troubles. While anything using DirectX has a 50/50 chance of messing up. But thats really

general and really can't be a basis for any decision.

Things I've tried:
- Uninstalling/Erasing/Reinstalling Drivers (gone through 3 releases, and a couple Beta packs found on backwater forums)
- Flashing a new Video (and Motherboard) BIOS
- Underclocking the Video Cards (only the card on System 1 has ever been overclocked, but sometimes you just have to open her up to keep her spry
- Checking/Adjusting Voltages on PSU's
- All the cards have direct (unshared) rails to the PSU besides System 2 (we tried it though)
- Assorted BIOS tweaks on System 1, asked to do by PNY Service Rep, no avail (included a mysterious overclock of System 1's RAM, and also using one stick at once)
- Tried returning the card for System 3 to PNY, where they would not give me my money back, but seemed to have a nice back stock of unsold cards to send me. So unless this is the same problem on all three (now four) cards, I'm out $1,500.
NOTE: When using 1 stick of RAM, the problems in Counter-Strike 1.x went away for about 30 minutes, a record time.

Things to take into account when giving me advice:
- I've been all over this problem since the cards came out, I've read and tried a lot of advice from posts on other forums, and this one
- PNY seems reluctant to admit that they have screwed me on these cards
- None of these cards have been overclocked (accept for System 1 for 2 minutes. Then it died, awesome)
- There are no current overclocks on anything in any system. Besides the RAM in System 1, no machine has EVER had an overclock.

Personal Notes:
- I shouldn't have to use a workaround in order to get something to work. Systems 1 and 2, although sharing nearly identical hardware, have very very different BIOS and Video settings. When I pay $1,500 for hardware, and get no real help with it, and don't seem to be in the boat alone when it comes to video issues with the 6800X series, I expect someones head to roll if this doesn't ever get resolved
- What worked for you may not work for everyone else. So before an argument ensues over someones advice (no one wants a fight), I'll just state that I've tried A LOT of things, and none have worked so far (meaning no posts about my substandard PSU, like I've gotten on every forum

Anyhow, if anyone has any advice, or has suffered the same fate as I have, let me know. Maybe class-action lawsuits are in order

Also, I have a screenshot of my desktop curruption (this is the same artifacting that happens to all my games, minus the diagonal stripes, which I can't work in) after checking my email in IE. Link is here

 

[kurt454]

The screenshot does look like bad video ram on the card. Have you tested all the machines with memtest86 to determine if your ram is rock solid? How about prime95? Are the base systems solid? I only have a 6800GT, not an Ultra, and my experience has been pretty good so far. Got a Gainward, not PNY. RMA all three maybe.

 

[Squally Leonharty]

I might be mixing this up with another issue, but I think PNY isn't the brand you should go for in the 6800x series of nVidia cards. Some, if not most cards from PNY are rather dodgy. If you can, try trading them for XFI, Leadtek, BFG or eVGA.

Again, I'm not sure if that's entirely true, because I've read about PNY cards being bad in a few threads here, which I can't find anymore.

 

[bigwayne]

kurt454

When I was writing it up I forgot something to add under the "Already tried" column. Suffice it to say I ran memtest86 with full tests for 6 hours on all RAM and they checked out fine (Its become a standard procedure since my ordeal with Corsair sending me worthless RAM, but thats another post for another time ) In the past five days I'll note, System 2 has had a record of no crashes! (Goes hand-in-hand with not using IE for those five days)

Good call on the Video Ram, I got the same from other forums, but its the only thing I can't test so I'm kinda in the dark there.

I could RMA all the cards, but would that be necessary? What do the Laws of Probability state on all three cards being bad at once?

Squally

I'm starting to agree with you there. Although all my video cards (post 3DFX and the four ATI's which didn't last a year [one blew out my old computer the first time I put it in]) are from PNY, these 6800's are being a royal pain. I haven't had such problems with them with 4600's, 4800's, 5800's, or 5900's. But you're right, if its such a big issue with them I've got no problem using someone else if that means it'll work. But first I have to contend with getting my money BACK from PNY, which they seem intent on keeping.

Once again, good start guys, I immediately like where this is going.

 

[bigwayne]

Addendum:

Would anyone happen to know of an application that tests Video RAM?

 

[kurt454]

You might download RTHDRIBL and let it run windowed. It will heat the video card up pretty fast. If anything is dodgy, it will probably show up then.

 

[LordGMan]

How is the airflow in your cases? I got lines like that on my 9800 Pro from heat and OCing once.

What are the IRQs? BFG Tech support says the IRQ has to be 11 or less, mine is at 16? Time for reinstall on my box anyway.

BTW - I have the BFG6800GT and the only problem I have with mine is suttering in Direct 3D Games like Joint Operations, which is my favorite. The 66.81 drivers helped but it still hitches evey few seconds.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: LordGManWhat are the IRQs? BFG Tech support says the IRQ has to be 11 or less, mine is at 16? Time for reinstall on my box anyway.

Nonsense! If you need one do it but Don't reinstall because of that tripe. It's normal with XP and 2Kpro, mine is on 16 as well and I have had zero issues the last 3 months with this card, and I did a throw&go 3 times nV-to-ATi-to-nV on the same OS install, no driver cleaner in between.

 

[Genx87]

It is odd that you get the same issue in all three machines.

Are these machines properly ventilated? You would be surprised what spending 25 bucks on 3 decent fans can do for you. It dropped my workstation core temp by 10 C and the ambient by 8C.

Also have you tried underclocking them to see if the issues disappear?

btw I just noted your choice of MBs. Isnt DFI a cheapy brand? And I am pretty sure ECS is really cheap stuff.

 

[Lonyo]

Try underclocking the cards to see if it's a heat issue.

 

[bigwayne]

Lonyo

Done that. I thought about heat spikes a while ago (its in the post somewhere), but thanks

Anyhow, about airflow.
System 1 is my personal machine, and ever since I've installed the card I've had the side panel off. Regardless of that, I've got 2 fans in the rear blowing outward, other than that theres no reason for more air to be moving through the areas (PSU has its own fans, CPU has Volcano 11, so theres no real air problem). The card itself (based on the Temp window in the driver settings) runs at 49 Celsius, 50-51 under load. As far as I know thats a fine temp. Air around the parts is room temp (about 65-70F).

The two other machines run 50 idle, 51-52 loaded. Same ambient air conditions.

Now that you know this, you really have to ask yourself what could be wrong. I've asked myself, my friends, total strangers, and tech support about this too already

Keep em comin' I'll tell you what I find.

(BTW kurt454, I'll try that and report back)

EDIT: Mother of God.

It runs great... but in between stopping it so my computer could do something, I noticed my temp shot up to 80 Celsius. I don't know if thats healthy. In *anything* it never gets over 55, whats the deal here :/

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Given the info provided, I'd say PNY QC is suspect. I'd send 'em all back and stop wasting any more time on TSing them. Getting GTs and pocketing the extra cash would be good to if you can swing it.

 

[bigwayne]

yea thats *IF* I can swing it.

Been over that with them before, they won't give back the money but they'll RMA without a fight. I guess I'll have to get up for this one.

 

[Bumrush99]

Return them all. Go ATI or go 6800GT. A lot of these issues are related to power and it seems like you have done everything in your power to ensure that power is not the issue. Stop wasting your time with this batch.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: bigwayne
yea thats *IF* I can swing it.

Been over that with them before, they won't give back the money but they'll RMA without a fight. I guess I'll have to get up for this one.

Where and when did you buy them again? Have you spoken to them?

 

[bigwayne]

Bumrush99

I'd love to do that buddy. I really would. Personal bias against ATI aside (they never last a year in any machine I've ever used them in), I think it would be a nice choice if I had the money left to do it. Maybe just one first to see if it helps (no doubt it would, its obviously the video card/drivers, but I can't pinpoint any specific thing. Its like knowing whats wrong but you don't know where it is, painful).

I've heard more things about the GT's messing up than anything, of course thats probably because people are smarter and just buying those than the Ultras. If I didn't go ATI, I'll think about a BFG GT or something, something else with a lifetime warranty.

I have faith in NVidia, but PNY's lost points with me bad. I'd appreciate it if they'd cave and give me my money back, negotiations continue.

Please though, I'd like to try some other things if you have any other advice I'm all ears.

 

[bigwayne]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Where and when did you buy them again? Have you spoken to them?

Directly from PNY. Pre-ordered them before they came out. Yes I've spoken to them, a lot, sadly.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

PNY sux, People would buy their stuff thinking lifetime warranty! schweet1 The discover it's only the production life of the card I'd start RMAing them and if the next 3 are junk, rinse and repeat :evil:

 

[bigwayne]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
PNY sux, People would buy their stuff thinking lifetime warranty! schweet1 The discover it's only the production life of the card I'd start RMAing them and if the next 3 are junk, rinse and repeat :evil:

HAH! Good call. The one I did RMA I shorted a tote bag, two power splitters, and the DVI Adaptors, which they replaced when they sent the new one. I figure a buttload more totes and a 30 device daisy-chained connector later, they'll send me a good one

 

[gururu]

since all these systems meet 'your' specifications, I'd try the cards on someone else's computer. it would serve as an independent test of the cards integrity. if the cards work fine, consider the other machines specs. if the cards are still bad, fight for your money back and explain to them that they were independently tested.

 

[bigwayne]

Originally posted by: gururu
since all these systems meet 'your' specifications, I'd try the cards on someone else's computer. it would serve as an independent test of the cards integrity. if the cards work fine, consider the other machines specs. if the cards are still bad, fight for your money back and explain to them that they were independently tested.

Great idea. Back when all this started I went against my gut and just called tech support to see if anyone else had the same problem. They recommended your advice too, so I did that with some of our other machines (drastically different specs between them), and the same thing happened. We even tried swapping the cards around in each machine before realizing it wasn't helping.

Despite my rattling, PNY's tech support was really attentive with my problem, but still remained adament that it couldn't possibly be something wrong with my card, but did offer a lot of suggestions for workarounds. That aside, I still got good support for what I expected.

Regardless of whether or not I get this fixed, I'm still going to RMA all the cards, use the new ones, and give the free bags away for Christmas and birthdays :evil:. If I can get my money back, I'm better off though.

 

[c0rmani]

a few ideas for you to try (or maybe you have already tried...) i have a 6800GT and *was* experiencing similar problems...

- what driver revision are you using now and what ones have you tried? in the end i have found the 61.76 drivers to be very good. this is afaik the latest official WHQL cert drivers released by nVidia... i have not checked in maybe 2 weeks or so, but it certainly was when i downloaded them

- are you using AGP fast writes in your bios? if so, try disabling (you can also disable from windows with some software packages, for example Riva Tuner)

- do you have your AGP apature set correctly in your bios?

if none of that is much help, let me know, i have an additional thing for you to try, but i do not have the time to type up the instructions now.

 

[Appledrop]

are you running the power line on the same cable as the fan? i heard something about how the PSU connector is connected to 6800s could cause a problem

 

[bigwayne]

c0rmani

I'm currently using the 61.77 drivers that were released months ago. I've used the last three releases with the same result, the third of which made my system not boot at all, so I just let that one go.

Theres a tale to tell about Fast Writes and me, we go way back. System 1 has them enabled right now, as well as side band addressing. The thing about this is, when I turn it off, the system crashes sometimes at startup. Other times the symptoms I'm trying to resolve show up faster, if games even boot at all. So for the time being I have them both enabled for the sake of it working (also works with my 5900 Ultra, so its not causing any card-specific harm). As for System 2, I disabled both Fast Writes and Side band Addressing, and there is no improvement, but there is also none of the same issues System 1 is having with them being off. System 3 has them off as well.

As for my aperture settings, System 1 is running on 128MB, System 2 on 256MB, and System 3 on 256MB. Adjusting this does nothing noticable in terms of fixing my problem, and the NFII Ultra B is quite customizable like that.

By all means, when you get time tell me what you have in mind, I'd love to try something I haven't heard before. Tis why I'm here

Azzy64

If I'm not mistaken, you mean are the two power inputs to the card coming from the same cable. If I'm wrong correct me please.

System 1 is using the same cable for both power inputs, but its a dedicated cable, nothing else is attached. System 3 is using something similar. I have tried using two dedicated cables at the expense of my case fans being off (could be remedied later, but this is a test after all), and the same problems happened.
System 2 on the other hand is the machine my roommate uses, he has his cables split and running to both of his harddrives, and his floppy drive. Everyone I know recommends against this, but knowing that the way they do recommend doesn't work, he went back to how he would wire that box.

If you meant something else let me know. I'm not that good at this stuff apparently, and I could have easily overlooked something.

 

[c0rmani]

what windows version are you using, and have you ever tried 61.76 specifically? 61.77 are not WHQL drivers.