7-Year-Old Migrant Girl Dies Of Dehydration In Border Patrol Custody

[ch33zw1z]

I don't know him. I know a poor choice when I see one.

Stay in TJ or go into the desert with no food or water... Which would you choose?

Wow, you even know the choices he had to make. I guess since you say it was such a straightforward choice, then I should take you word for it, you know, since you've known him so long. Does he know you dont like him?

You should be a reporter, since you have all the facts.

 

[mect]

Border patrol agents are now medical doctors?

They do receive medical training specific for desert environments.

 

[WelshBloke]

That part in not in dispute. I agree.

Do you agree that authorities have a duty of care for minors they have detained?

 

[killster1]

If you are seizing children that have just crossed a desert then giving them adequate medical assessments and care seems like the minimum. This is not rocket science.

And if you can not provide the instant care you desire what do you do with the child?? you dont understand the question? I was pretty clear, release them in usa? release them in mexico? release the father too? Seems as if you would be advocating it either way

 

[SMOGZINN]

And if you can not provide the instant care you desire what do you do with the child?? you dont understand the question? I was pretty clear, release them in usa? release them in mexico? release the father too? Seems as if you would be advocating it either way

Option 1: Don't detain them in the first place.
Option 2: Take them somewhere to a hospital that can treat them.

 

[WelshBloke]

And if you can not provide the instant care you desire what do you do with the child?? you dont understand the question? I was pretty clear, release them in usa? release them in mexico? release the father too? Seems as if you would be advocating it either way

What? Damn right I dont understand the question.
What do you do if you can't provide instant care for a child in the ER? Throw them out on the street?

It goes like this. Seize child. Medically assess child.

Child is fit and well then child is given adequate nutrition and shelter.

Child is not well then can child be adequately be treated in situ? If so treat child, if not escalate to local emergency services. If treating child, is child responding to treatment? If so continue treatment until child is stable. If child is not responding to treatment escalate to local emergency services.

This is not complicated stuff.

 

[killster1]

Option 1: Don't detain them in the first place.
Option 2: Take them somewhere to a hospital that can treat them.

ok well you sealed her death when you left her in the dessert and didnt detain her.endless lives of children will die once you give them free passes to the hospital on capture. Your first choice ensures only their own death while the second choice saves a life to end MANY. Everyone will be sending not only healthy children but sick ones too even hoping to be captured and taken to a usa hospital to be released a homeless child? or shipped back to mexico alone? or?

 

[killster1]

What? Damn right I dont understand the question.
What do you do if you can't provide instant care for a child in the ER? Throw them out on the street?

It goes like this. Seize child. Medically assess child.

Child is fit and well then child is given adequate nutrition and shelter.

Child is not well then can child be adequately be treated in situ? If so treat child, if not escalate to local emergency services. If treating child, is child responding to treatment? If so continue treatment until child is stable. If child is not responding to treatment escalate to local emergency services.

This is not complicated stuff.

OK but you assume there is endless resources in this scenario correct? so 1 million children cross and you will have 1 million DR on standby right? but this is real life.. what now

 

[WelshBloke]

OK but you assume there is endless resources in this scenario correct? so 1 million children cross and you will have 1 million DR on standby right? but this is real life.. what now

Are a million children being detained now on your southern border? Or are you spewing bullshit in a desperate attempt to justify letting children die in the care of the authorities?

 

[interchange]

Because she died 8 hours later from dehydration. 8 hours is plenty of time to treat dehydration.

"tragedy" isn't the first word that springs to my mind when an organisation tasked with the care of a minor misses the fact that she's dehydrated when only a modicum of attention was required to spot it and only bothers to do something useful when she's on the verge of death.

Yes, she might have died even if border control staff had immediately recognised her symptoms the moment she entered their care. But then 8 hours passed, during which time it's perfectly possible that someone could deteriorate from perfectly healthy to dehydrated even when they haven't been walking through a desert.

I'd bet that any parent in a first-world country whose child dies of dehydration while in their care would be facing criminal charges. The same should happen to whoever is running that facility.

We have a fiduciary relationship with our government and its agencies. I well understand that Trump has threatened or frankly violated that trust on multiple occasions, particularly when it comes to humane treatment of immigrants and asylum seekers and families. This event brings that wound to the surface. We did not create that wound, but it is ours to bear. If we refuse by levying premature blame, even if ever so slightly, we close ourselves off to learning all that can be learned from this death. If we wish to heal our wounds through creation of stronger institutions which prevent another Trump from happening or at least limit the damage done, we must allow ourselves to learn from atrocity which goes far beyond identification of villainy.

There exists many unknowns in this case. For instance, there is no autopsy. The medical records have not been released. The cause of death cited includes sepsis which is severe infection. We don't know what if any underlying conditions she had. We don't know her condition at presentation. Perhaps she appeared as a sleeping child and family voiced no complaints. Perhaps she was medically evaluated initially and was in a much more stable state. Bacterial meningitis can take a mildly ill-appearing child to death in 8 hours for example. Anyone who does critical care work with children knows they compensate extremely well until they can't any longer and crash suddenly. We don't know what care was attempted at the center. It is reasonable that she could not take PO and would require an interosseous line to get fluids in her. She might have had what most people would think of good care and experienced refeeding syndrome hastening her decompensation. We don't know the validity of the reports that she hadn't eaten or drank in days. We don't know the medical acumen of the people who interacted with her at the facility or the treatment resources they had available. We don't know if, e.g., there was another medical emergency going on at the same time which occupied staff. Or appropriate staffing wasn't available due to a car accident, illness, no show, whatever. In other words while it is quite reasonable to suspect neglect or malice could be involved, we don't actually know shit.

 

[killster1]

Are a million children being detained now on your southern border? Or are you spewing bullshit in a desperate attempt to justify letting children die in the care of the authorities?

gotta love how you ignore questions.

you save one girl and you encourage more death. you dont save and they die. so whats your new answer going to be? unlimited resources to help illegal aliens?

welshebloke.. how about you reply
interchange statement since its basicly the same thing i said.

 

[WelshBloke]

gotta love how you ignore questions.

you save one girl and you encourage more death. you dont save and they die. so whats your new answer going to be? unlimited resources to help illegal aliens?

Well you seem to have ignored the entire issue of this thread!
You do seem to be saying that you are ok with sacrificing children on the border to put off other people crossing though.

That's your argument now isnt it? Let the children die and it'll put the others off.

You want to mount the bodies on stakes along the border as well? Because that would be more effective!

 

[WelshBloke]

welshebloke.. how about you reply
interchange statement since its basicly the same thing i said.

That argument is very much not the same as yours. That argument is that they may have done all they could but missed something and that we dont know the care that was given.
Your argument is that we shouldn't give them care because it might make more of them come.

 

[killster1]

Well you seem to have ignored the entire issue of this thread!
You do seem to be saying that you are ok with sacrificing children on the border to put off other people crossing though.

That's your argument now isnt it? Let the children die and it'll put the others off.

You want to mount the bodies on stakes along the border as well? Because that would be more effective!

you made no effort to give a solution. If they dont have endless resources then what do they do? turn them away with father? turn away with out father? sorry we dont live in a perfect world with endless people to help, we have limited help and everyone to criticize those who help. who cares if they saved thousands of lives they didnt save one now they must PAY!

 

[killster1]

That argument is very much not the same as yours. That argument is that they may have done all they could but missed something and that we dont know the care that was given.
Your argument is that we shouldn't give them care because it might make more of the come.

you dont see my post about assessing and nothing being wrong? i guess you choose to ignore.

 

[killster1]

That argument is very much not the same as yours. That argument is that they may have done all they could but missed something and that we dont know the care that was given.
Your argument is that we shouldn't give them care because it might make more of them come.

And you know they didnt get assessed? you were there? perhaps the symptoms didnt exist at that moment in time? YES tragedies happen every day every second. ARe they always preventable? Nope. So you dont think they save people everyday too? lets see the video!

 

[WelshBloke]

you made no effort to give a solution. If they dont have endless resources then what do they do? turn them away with father? turn away with out father? sorry we dont live in a perfect world with endless people to help, we have limited help and everyone to criticize those who help. who cares if they saved thousands of lives they didnt save one now they must PAY!

Post #106

 

[WelshBloke]

And you know they didnt get assessed? you were there? perhaps the symptoms didnt exist at that moment in time? YES tragedies happen every day every second. ARe they always preventable? Nope. So you dont think they save people everyday too? lets see the video!

Post #78

 

[killster1]

Post #106

and in the real world of not having 1:1 medical attention for each person detained. what do you do? You know no facts and pretend you have answers. all of your answers are going to cost lives of many unless we can use unlimited resources for medical attention etc.

and you are wrong but you just say "post 108" bla bla i did say exactly what you said i didnt. Now same thing ignore

 

[WelshBloke]

and in the real world of not having 1:1 medical attention for each person detained. what do you do? You know no facts and pretend you have answers. all of your answers are going to cost lives of many unless we can use unlimited resources for medical attention etc.

Wtf? Post #106 should be SOP in situations like this. You do it and you record it. If something goes wrong you have a trail telling you what went wrong and how to improve things in the future. It should be trivial for the authorities to show exactly what was done for this child.

 

[WelshBloke]

and you are wrong but you just say "post 108" bla bla i did say exactly what you said i didnt. Now same thing ignore

So what your solution to children needing medical attention in custody? Is it a final solution? Are you going to give them a nice shower?

 

[Viper1j]

So you think her father made a good choice?

I think most "normal" parents would do whatever they thought they had to, to ensure a better future for their children.

I don't know him. I know a poor choice when I see one.

Stay in TJ or go into the desert with no food or water... Which would you choose?

It's painfully obvious you've never been a parent.

 

[Viper1j]

I don't know him. I know a poor choice when I see one.

Stay in TJ or go into the desert with no food or water... Which would you choose?

I'm not jumping to a conclusion about her father.
He took his daughter through the desert where she went several days without food or water IAW what was stated in the article.

Unless it is shown that he and his daughter were forced into the desert it is obvious he chose to go willingly with his daughter.

Tell me where I am jumping to a conclusion.

No big deal in your world, right?

Just another dead "invader" right?

 

[Greenman]

You righties are a bunch of hypocrites. When the family of Elian Gonzales came from Cuba by boat the trip killed his mother. The mother took their son without his fathers permission. The father tried to get him back and all the righties put up a fight to keep him here even though he had a surviving father who wanted to take him back to Cuba.

Wiling to give Elian aid and comfort yet let's not look out for this girl who just died.

Whataboutisim is alive and well.

 

[killster1]

So what your solution to children needing medical attention in custody? Is it a final solution? Are you going to give them a nice shower?

what ever is in place is pretty close to my solution, when a issue presented itself care was given immediately. No you can not save everyone always, No you can not diagnose every problem before it happens. If there is a outbreak of a deadly disease downtown new york how many people will die because overcrowded ER rooms? Its impossible to prevent things from happening and giving the intensive care you think is needed at all times and places. Maybe there should be a helicopter of DR's that circles the border and lands as needed? but seriously this is budget restricted process who is going to fund this? you dont even pay taxes in USA but you want to tell us what we should do. Endless $$$ would solve many problems, hell even unemployment would be zero with all the people needed to care for every possible situation.