.

[Moonbeam]

I want to know if God believes in me.

 

[Sciolist]

<< I remain neutral as I have no proof of the affirmative or the negative.

I guess that makes me agnostic. >>


My position exactly.

 

[xirtam]

Elledan: You're right. It's a strong argument for intelligent design -- not necessarily God. But since the idea of alien creators in my mind begs the question, I accept God as the other alternative. If the world does exist by intelligent design, it must exist by one who was not designed. So you're left with either God-aliens, or you're left with God. I'll take God.

 

[woolmilk]

"If the world does exist by intelligent design, it must exist by one who was not designed"
Theres also the option of system inherant intelligence - a self organizing design - like "god is in us and in everything".

"I want to know if God believes in me."
Tell me what your God is, where can i find him, what does he do. Then I'll tell you if I believe you.

- wool

"Sei in deinem Tun ein Gott - Club der toten Dichter" <- kann das mal wer uebersetzen ?

 

[POKOT]

I believe in absence of any superior powers, gods, etc.
I believe in existance of people

 

[Elledan]

<< "Sei in deinem Tun ein Gott - Club der toten Dichter" <- kann das mal wer uebersetzen ? >>


Selbstverst&auml;ndlich Aber was meinst du mit 'Sei'?

 

[Elledan]

<< Elledan: You're right. It's a strong argument for intelligent design -- not necessarily God. But since the idea of alien creators in my mind begs the question, I accept God as the other alternative. If the world does exist by intelligent design, it must exist by one who was not designed. So you're left with either God-aliens, or you're left with God. I'll take God. >>


Your reasoning is irrational again.

The chance that there are more universes with life in them is more than 1%, while the chance that any 'supernatural' beings exist is 0%.

Just try to provide us with one shred of evidence that gods might exist. You'll fail.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

<The chance that there are more universes with life in them is more than 1%, while the chance that any 'supernatural' beings exist is 0%.>

The problem here- Conclusions totatally unencumbered by data.
The correct SCIENTIFIC answer is -insufficient data to attempt to verify a hypothesis. Therefore this is a fallacious statement. If I am wrong, show me EVIDENCE to the contrary.

<JUST try to provide us one shred of evidence gods might exist. You?ll fail with that>

let's evaluate this statement.

God does not exist- God cannot be proven.
God does exist and is willing to allow himself to be proven.- You MIGHT be able to prove existance if you know what to look for.
God does exist and is NOT willing to be subjected to such scrutiny- God cannot be proven. (unless you say that we can "sneak up" on god.)

Notice that this post does not address the existence or non existence of god. What it does is address is the logic and rational of thought processes involved here. Elledan you BELIEVE that god does not exist. That is ok with me. It is your right. However you cannot lean on science the way you have for a definitive answer.


Edit- the response of the agnostic- don't know, don't care is to simplistic. Although that may indeed be true for some, it is not for me. I would dearly like to definitively know the answer to this question. I cannot use science to back up either the thiestic or athiestic beliefs as has been put forward by some. I therefore am an agnostic, because I cannot KNOW, not because I choose to remain ignorant.

 

[JohnnyReb]

The chance that there are more universes with life in them is more than 1%, while the chance that any 'supernatural' beings exist is 0%.

Elledan,
Just WHERE do you get these statistics?

Just try to provide us with one shred of evidence that gods might exist. You'll fail.

Using your peculiar version of logic, provide us with one shred of evidence that "other" universes exist. You'll fail. So then you will have to admit that the other universe theory has a chance of 0%.

As far as the existence of God, a "shred" (look it up) of evidence would be the HUGE number of people who talk to him daily. The odds that God exist is greater than the entire human race (except for such enlightened individuals as yourself) experiencing delusions. This would certainly push God's chances up to the 1% range.

I expect you to spend as much time advocating God as you have the "other" universe theory. There's a good boy.

John


Edit: remove personal insult

 

[woolmilk]

><< "Sei in deinem Tun ein Gott - Club der toten Dichter" <- kann das mal wer uebersetzen ? >>
>Selbstverst&auml;ndlich Aber was meinst du mit 'Sei'?

woohoo
Ok, ill give it a try - to bad i never saw the english original of this film.
"Be a God in all your doings - from the dead poets club"

 

[andaval]

JohnnyReb-



<< As far as the existence of God, a "shred" (look it up) of evidence would be the HUGE number of people who talk to him daily. The odds that God exist is greater than the entire human race (except for such enlightened individuals as yourself) experiencing delusions. >>



Ah, the "Contact" argument. My ex-girlfriend tried this one on me. I would like to point out that that not too long ago, the entire educated world population believed that the Earth was flat (ironically, because the church had told them so). There are other examples, such as the age of the earth, or whether the earth is in the center of the universe. Mass belief in propoganda does not make the propoganda true. Of course, if you still believe the earth is flat, 6000 years old, the center of the universe and that evolution is a lie, you must be pretty confused about how scientists managed to get a computer (or car, etc.) working for you but be so totally off on everything else.

Have a good day.

 

[Josephus]

Yes I do.

I think that we all serve or are served by our ideals, our own personal God. Logic, Sex, Money, or one of the various dieties described
by the worlds religions can serve as a "God". I also believe that our ideals, or "God" will not change until they start failing us. My God
has not failed me...

 

[JohnnyReb]

Ah, the "Contact" argument. My ex-girlfriend tried this one on me. I would like to point out that that not too long ago, the entire educated world population believed that the Earth was flat (ironically, because the church had told them so). There are other examples, such as the age of the earth, or whether the earth is in the center of the universe. Mass belief in propoganda does not make the propoganda true. Of course, if you still believe the earth is flat, 6000 years old, the center of the universe and that evolution is a lie, you must be pretty confused about how scientists managed to get a computer (or car, etc.) working for you but be so totally off on everything else.

Now hold on! You're just throwing up a Straw Man. I am not talking about believing something you are told. I'm talking about jillions of people holding conversations with God daily. The fact that all these people experience God isn't the same as believing because you are told. Either we are right, or we are suffering delusions. I submit that being right holds at least a 1% possibility, hence qualifying as a shred of evidence. Did I say conclusive? Nope, I didn't.

 

[Elledan]

<< Elledan you BELIEVE that god does not exist. >>


Wrong.

It's the only possible conclusion, because there is no evidence to even suggest that 'gods' exist'.

 

[Elledan]

<< Elledan,
Just WHERE do you get these statistics? >>

If you're even a little familiar with theoretical physics, you'll know that the "more than 1%" statistic is correct.



<<

<< Just try to provide us with one shred of evidence that gods might exist. You'll fail. >>



Using your peculiar version of logic, provide us with one shred of evidence that "other" universes exist. You'll fail. >>

D'oh, theoretical physics, yes?


<< So then you will have to admit that the other universe theory has a chance of 0%. >>

Nope, there exists evidence which suggests that there are more universes than just this one.



<< As far as the existence of God, a "shred" (look it up) of evidence would be the HUGE number of people who talk to him daily. >>

You mean the billions of people worshipping over 10,000 gods?


<< The odds that God exist is greater than the entire human race (except for such enlightened individuals as yourself) experiencing delusions. This would certainly push God's chances up to the 1% range. >>


Sorry, but mass-hysteria isn't acceptable as evidence for some kind of disaster either. Because people get all worked up about something like global warming doesn't mean that it's real. Sure, something is happening, but the average citizen doesn't have a friggin' clue what's going on.

By the way, there have never been so many atheists. 'Evidence' that gods don't exist?

 

[andaval]

Ok, Johnny Reb, I'll agree that my argument is more applicable to people who believe in God. Therefore, my new counter argument:

If person A "talks with God", but there is no way to verify this in any way, then there is NO shred of evidence created. This is how science works. By the same token, "Intelligent Design Theory" is NOT a theory, because it cannot be tested. Even if there are people A through ZZZZZ, there is still no evidence created. I'm sorry, but there is no reason for me to believe that you talk with God. Would you believe me if I told you I was a prophet and God wanted you to give me all of your money? How do you even know you talk with God? Does he tell you about future events? Give you lotto numbers? Do you think that there is no chance that your brain is in fact "tricking" you into thinking that you are conversing with God? Haven't you ever been positive that you put your keys RIGHT HERE and spent 10 minutes looking for them, eventually finding them somewhere else?

 

[JohnnyReb]

It's the only possible conclusion, because there is no evidence to even suggest that 'gods' exist'.

Elledan,
There you go again! There is, at the very least, a "shred" of evidence. See above. Stating something in absolute terms does not strengthen your argument. Don't worry, that's a common mistake among the young. I would guess that you are in your late teens and consider yourself very intelligent.

John

 

[Elledan]

<< Notice that this post does not address the existence or non existence of god. What it does is address is the logic and rational of thought processes involved here. Elledan you BELIEVE that god does not exist. That is ok with me. It is your right. However you cannot lean on science the way you have for a definitive answer. >>


The problem with 'gods' is that the whole concept of a 'god' (or goddess for that matter) is flawed to begin with.

There is no reason to assume that gods are anything but a figment of the imagination.

So we can't explain certain things, like the formation of life, the universe and emotional responses. And? Does lack of understanding mean that there are/is (a) god(s)?

In countries like India there are many people who worship snake gods. You want to suggest that they're wrong? In that case you'll have to accept that there are things we do NOT understand and won't understand until we find out how it 'works'.

 

[lawaris]

<< Negative >>

 

[kulki]

<< I'm agnostic, and wish people would talk about sex instead of religion. >>


me too

 

[mdennison]

agnostic


"your god is dead, and no one cares...if there is a hell, i'll see you there!"

 

[Elledan]

<< It's the only possible conclusion, because there is no evidence to even suggest that 'gods' exist'.

Elledan,
There you go again! There is, at the very least, a "shred" of evidence. See above. Stating something in absolute terms does not strengthen your argument. Don't worry, that's a common mistake among the young. I would guess that you are in your late teens and consider yourself very intelligent.

John >>


In that case:

Try to disprove the following statements, without using any metaphysical elements:

- Gods are inferior to Humans.
- Gods consist out of a collection of substances or energy, and therefore qualify as a lifeform.
- Gods came into existance through spontaneous generation.
- There are purple, man-eating demons, who sometimes visit this world and cause hunger, disease and war.
- Gods evolved from other lifeforms.
- Gods are mortal.
- The gods of religions have nothing to do with the existance or non-existance of supernatural life, because they die when the religion dies.
- We're living inside a Matrix and everything around us is merely an illusion.
- Every existance is empty. Emptiness does not equal nothingness.

--

Finally, tell me why exactly I should assume that gods exist. Only because of a lack of understanding of certain things?

 

[Pastore]

yes

 

[EDoG2K]

"your god is dead, and no one cares...if there is a hell, i'll see you there!"


hehehehe.. word. I always wonder why so many Christians are sooo sure they are not going to hell. The only difference between them and me is they believe in the bible and pray to a dude named 'Jesus.' I don't really believe in an afterlife, but if there is one, I have the feeling we all go to the same damn place. Also; any all-forgiving christian god should forgive me for not believing him.

I'd rather laugh w/ the sinners then cry w/ the saints.

 

[andaval]

JohnnyReb- are you going to respond to my reply?

For the record, agnosticism is the most logically defensible position. However, I don't believe in something until I feel like there is a reason to, so I generally classify myself as atheist. Example:
Some guy: There is a teacup orbiting Mars!
Agnostic POV: Hmmm.... I don't know.
Atheist POV: Whatever, you weirdo. Leave me alone.