74 people shot, 11 fatally, in Chicago over the weekend

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BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,126
1,603
126
It appears that crime causes poverty, and not the other way around. Its a common misconception. If your normalize races by income, you still see the same differences in homicide rates.
This makes sense.
Crimes like paying people of some races less than paying people of other races for the same job contributes to poverty.
Crimes like racial discrimination whilst hiring causes poverty amongst some races more than others.
Crimes like mortgage discrimination in order to artifically segregate by race can limit peoples mobility and cousing options which contributes to poverty.
Crimes like repacking bad investments as "good" and reselling them will certainly cause a lot of poverty.

Are you rallying a call of the pitchforks to make a run on Wall Street to seek justice for the millions of victims?
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
This makes sense.
Crimes like paying people of some races less than paying people of other races for the same job contributes to poverty.
Crimes like racial discrimination whilst hiring causes poverty amongst some races more than others.
Crimes like mortgage discrimination in order to artifically segregate by race can limit peoples mobility and cousing options which contributes to poverty.
Crimes like repacking bad investments as "good" and reselling them will certainly cause a lot of poverty.

Are you rallying a call of the pitchforks to make a run on Wall Street to seek justice for the millions of victims?

I'm not rallying, but yeah, there are issues where people have abused others. Its not that poverty is driving this, so much as poverty is the side effect of other issues going on in some communities.

Whats worse, is that some of the issues spiral and make the situation worse as it causes a feedback loop.

Education opens up the ability to move ahead in more ways than money. When a teacher is looking to teach, they often avoid areas with higher crime. Good high quality teacher thus avoid areas where education might benefit people the most.
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,126
1,603
126
Education opens up the ability to move ahead in more ways than money.

This is so very true ... perhaps ensuring everybody has a chance at a good education is most important, even if it means boarding schools or something.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,805
29,556
146
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...-chicago-weekend-violence-20180806-story.html

As of Friday, at least 1,700 people have been shot in the city this year, fewer than the last two years at this time when violence hit record levels in the city but well above other recent years. There have been at least 300 homicides, according to Tribune data.


Jesus Christ I can’t even wrap my head around it. Over one frickin weekend.

That's an absolute lie.

Why do you lie with such silly, sad, and pathetic abandon? Violence is, in fact, on a sharp and easily-marked downward trend in Chicago. It is less than a third of what it was in the 70s and 80s. What you saw over the last three years was a wee little spike, that was the worst it had been in about 10 years, and still a wee fraction of previous years, but that's it.

Stop being a useful idiot.
 
Last edited:

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
This makes sense.
Crimes like paying people of some races less than paying people of other races for the same job contributes to poverty.
Crimes like racial discrimination whilst hiring causes poverty amongst some races more than others.
Crimes like mortgage discrimination in order to artifically segregate by race can limit peoples mobility and cousing options which contributes to poverty.
Crimes like repacking bad investments as "good" and reselling them will certainly cause a lot of poverty.

Are you rallying a call of the pitchforks to make a run on Wall Street to seek justice for the millions of victims?


Or you could look at it from the actual behavior angle as that might be useful:

H.S. graduation rates of 69% (blacks) vs 86% (whites) contribute to poverty.
Teenage birth rates of 39 per 1,000 (blacks) vs. 19 per 1,000 (whites) contribute to poverty.
Out of wedlock births of 72% (blacks) vs. 29% (whites) contribute to poverty.

It's fine to cite discrimination factors but it's doing a disservice to overlook the negative things minorities do to worsen their own situations.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
That's an absolute lie.

Why do you lie with such silly, sad, and pathetic abandon? Violence is, in fact, on a sharp and easily-marked downward trend in Chicago. It is less than a third of what it was in the 70s and 90s. What you saw over the last three years was a wee little spike, that was the worst it had been in about 10 years, and still a wee fraction of previous years, but that's it.

Stop being a useful idiot.
But gosh man, he just doesn't know what to think! It's all so complicated.

Surely there's someone loud he can take his cues from though.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
Or you could look at it from the actual behavior angle as that might be useful:

H.S. graduation rates of 69% (blacks) vs 86% (whites) contribute to poverty.
Teenage birth rates of 39 per 1,000 (blacks) vs. 19 per 1,000 (whites) contribute to poverty.
Out of wedlock births of 72% (blacks) vs. 29% (whites) contribute to poverty.

It's fine to cite discrimination factors but it's doing a disservice to overlook the negative things minorities do to worsen their own situations.
U R dum.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,664
24,964
136
Or you could look at it from the actual behavior angle as that might be useful:

H.S. graduation rates of 69% (blacks) vs 86% (whites) contribute to poverty.
Teenage birth rates of 39 per 1,000 (blacks) vs. 19 per 1,000 (whites) contribute to poverty.
Out of wedlock births of 72% (blacks) vs. 29% (whites) contribute to poverty.

It's fine to cite discrimination factors but it's doing a disservice to overlook the negative things minorities do to worsen their own situations.

Yep, it's their fault and they deserved to be screwed by you.

FYGM at its finest.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Yep, it's their fault and they deserved to be screwed by you.

FYGM at its finest.

Keep on telling the poor they have no responsibility and nothing they do makes a difference to their situations so YOLO, it's working great so far.
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
6,330
1,203
126
Most of the murders are between gangs. I think if the black market profits were dried up, then the gangs would lose their power, and murder rates would come down.
Drugs & Prostitution are two big income sources for gangs.

Drugs and prostitution should be legalized and regulated.

Or maybe BLM and other groups could go protest in the areas where the violence happens instead of blocking traffic and blaming white people?
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,225
306
126
It appears that crime causes poverty, and not the other way around. Its a common misconception. If your normalize races by income, you still see the same differences in homicide rates.

I don't think you can separate the two. In some cases, poverty does certainly cause crime. But I'll acknowledge that with a good set of morals, even those who live in poverty would work themselves out of it in many case (but certainly not all....).

However, let's also agree that doesn't mean religious values are the answer either. Some very VERY religious people turn out to be huge criminals, and part of the "inner city culture" I talked about includes many who regularly attend church. I only bring this up because conservative think tanks repeatedly bring this up as a correlation.

I'll stick with what I said earlier - that this is a culture issue. Those raised in a culture that doesn't accept violence as an answer usually don't use violence as an answer. And vice versa.

People who blame the guns don't get it. It's American cuture that's screwed up. It's just easier for us Americans to blame everything else.

Consumerism is not healthy. Always wanting more isn't healthy. Coveting what everyone else has isn't healthy. Excess reliance on religion isn't healthy.
 
Reactions: UglyCasanova

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
I don't think you can separate the two. In some cases, poverty does certainly cause crime. But I'll acknowledge that with a good set of morals, even those who live in poverty would work themselves out of it in many case (but certainly not all....).

However, let's also agree that doesn't mean religious values are the answer either. Some very VERY religious people turn out to be huge criminals, and part of the "inner city culture" I talked about includes many who regularly attend church. I only bring this up because conservative think tanks repeatedly bring this up as a correlation.

I'll stick with what I said earlier - that this is a culture issue. Those raised in a culture that doesn't accept violence as an answer usually don't use violence as an answer. And vice versa.

People who blame the guns don't get it. It's American cuture that's screwed up. It's just easier for us Americans to blame everything else.

I'm going to leave this discussion because even though I have attempted to fight racism, I have been accused of racism. So until I can clear it up, I'm going to leave this be for now.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Keep beating that straw person.

The "straw person" of someone seeming to argue that crime and poverty are the inexorable result of discrimination. Since we know from readily available real world data that things like educational achievement and timing of parenthood are huge factors in driving income, it seems that rates of events like dropping out of school and out-of-wedlock birth that vary greatly by race seem extremely relevant when discussing patterns of poverty. Unless you can argue that somehow being discriminated against is a driving factor on if and whether someone becomes a teenage parent.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,664
24,964
136
The "straw person" of someone seeming to argue that crime and poverty are the inexorable result of discrimination. Since we know from readily available real world data that things like educational achievement and timing of parenthood are huge factors in driving income, it seems that rates of events like dropping out of school and out-of-wedlock birth that vary greatly by race seem extremely relevant when discussing patterns of poverty. Unless you can argue that somehow being discriminated against is a driving factor on if and whether someone becomes a teenage parent.


I haven't said a damn thing about discrimination in this thread. But keep beating that straw person you've invented in your head.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
I haven't said a damn thing about discrimination in this thread. But keep beating that straw person you've invented in your head.

You’re the one who quoted my post talking about a claim of discrimination with you only saying “bootstraps.” It seems you feel minorities lack the “bootstraps” to not choose to drop out of school, or not have children out of wedlock or as a teenager. All of which would impact their likelihood of economic success as much if not more than discrimination.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
You’re the one who quoted my post talking about a claim of discrimination with you only saying “bootstraps.” It seems you feel minorities lack the “bootstraps” to not choose to drop out of school, or not have children out of wedlock or as a teenager.
You are an angle greater than 90 degrees, but less than 180 degrees.
 
Reactions: Vic

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,664
24,964
136
You’re the one who quoted my post talking about a claim of discrimination with you only saying “bootstraps.” It seems you feel minorities lack the “bootstraps” to not choose to drop out of school, or not have children out of wedlock or as a teenager. All of which would impact their likelihood of economic success as much if not more than discrimination.

Lordy
 

HeXen

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2009
7,832
38
91
Never been to Chicago and never will... though I would like to catch a game at Wrigley one day.

They have taken over 5,000 guns off the street this year yet there is no short supply of guns to be stolen and sold to replace them daily...

There's also a black market from the Cartel's, they bring in more than just drugs.
 
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