Ok, for the last time. These are the differences between Socket 754 Newcastles vs. Socket 939 Winchester. AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH UPGRADABILITY.
Here's a disclaimer: This thread is not about socket type being is better than the other. It is to show how both are very similiar in performance. The ultimate choice is up to you and you alone.
Summary
754 offers better value for those who don't upgrade..those buy a new complete new box every 3-5years and out with the old. 754 also offer a 3-5% loss in performance compared with 939 at same clock speeds, but still presenting a better value since 754 parts are clocked higher to begin with and priced much cheaper than 3-5%.
Performance:
Both types of processors are close in performance.
Please review the chart below for further questions.
CPU Charts
Newcastles run at a faster clock speed. The they can run more tasks at once so they are slightly faster when Audio/Video editing/compiling and multitasking.
Winchesters have slightly better memory management and are slightly faster when it comes to games.
Price
They are very close in price with the Newcastle core being slightly cheaper ($25) than a Winchester core. The difference in the price of motherboards tend to be much greater with Nforce 4 motherboard selling for about $170.00 now while an Nforce3 motherboard sells for about $80.00.
"Pci-e and Dual Channel RAM"
To gain the advantage of PCI-e and Dual Channel RAM one should buy a Nforce4 motherboard. That will increase the price difference between the 754 and 939 processors close to $100.00. Bear in mind for little more than $100.00 one could upgrade from a 6600GT to a 6800GT or add 1 more GIG of memory among other things that will increase performance more noticably.
Dual channel RAM is a very good selling point if you were selling AMD processors. But Dual Channel's translation into performance is very neglegable, There is about a 5% improvement in overall performance which is more than made up by the faster clock speeds of the 754 CPU's. In that case having a faster clock speed would be better.
Quote: originally posted by Zebo:
"I have both 754 and 939. One at 2650Mhz, the other at 2655Mhz.. Performance is indescerable between the sockets without using select benchmarks. and even then only insignifigant in a couple tests...Mainly games.
Basically bandwith mean little to A64 due to it's incredibe low latency of it's architecture which benefits both sockets similarly."
For more information read
Zebo's memory Test
"939 is better because it will be made into dual core."
There are always rumors saying this or that about what might be. But speculation is only worth while in the stock market, but not when it comes to building a system. Here's the answer "Dual core will not come to the Wichester core." The Winchester core is not optimized for dual core systems and will not be used in dual core systems in the future. Also, consider the fact chipmakers make more money when there is no upgrade path. History has shown us that upgrade paths are very often distrupted by even minor changes in chip makers designs.
For those of you still not convinced. Check out the AMD roadmap. It clearly shows that the Toledo and not the Winchester will be dual core for desktops. In addition AMD will come out with at least 3 more .09nm chips from now till then. (Socket types have yet to be determined) AMD Road Map
"939 Winchester are more upgradable"
Again, upgradablilty is subjective and will be determined by the individual.
Studies have shown more than 80% of people do not upgrade their computer for at least 3 years or more. If they do upgrade most upgrade the video card only.
"What about those people who upgrade more often?"
It's not cost effect for anyone to upgrade every 6 months. That's a choice only hard core enthusiasts chose to make. For the rest of us the life of a computer is analogous to its performance. When it comes time to upgrade similar performing systems will need to be upgraded at about the same time.
"People buy computers for performance and not the socket type."
Here's another way of saying it. Technology is so dynamic and unpredicable in 3 years it will not matter if one owns a Newcastle or Winchester. Chances are by that time an upgrade would include both a new motherboard and processor regardless which socket type it is.
People have brought up the cost of upgrading. Here's the short and skinny.
If one were to buy a system today and upgrade the CPU and Graphics card in 3 years the only difference between a 939 PCI-e owner and a 754 owner is that the 754 owner may want to upgrade his motherboard also. But that's not a problem. Here's why....
1) There is hardly any cost benefit between getting new motherboard now rather than later. In fact costs are likely to run less if one were to buy one later. And considering the price of the newer nforc4 motherboards can be as much as $100.00 higher than an NForce3 motherboard it could be an advantage to buy one later.
2) The 754 buyer has the option to buy newer technology because it could be integrated into the new motherboard.
3) The 939 owner will have to upgrade again sooner rather than later because the technology on his motherboard is older.
4) And finally the 754 owner can use the old CPU, MOBO, and Graphics card for a secondary system or sell it or give it to a family member. While the 939 owner has an old CPU and Graphics are that won't be much use to anyone else unless they purchased a new motherboard to use them those components.
Also, here's a bold perdiction that I'm willing to bet just about everyone will agree on. The next big leap in performance will not happen on a (939) Winchester Core CPU....
Even if you upgrade your 939 to a less expensive FX chip in the future you're upgrading to negligable performance gains. What does that mean? You wont notice a thing. Wow that's pretty revealing isn't it? And guess what else? You'll have spent almost $200.00 or more preparing and upgrading that system for a few nano second improvement in performance over the system you built today.
When is comes down to it, if you don't mind spending an extra the extra cash on a socket 939 that's fine for you. But buying one over the other solely because you think or some tells you " it's upgradable" is fairytale thinking and should not be a consideration. There is no reason not to buy the best performing system you can right now regardless what socket type it is.
Here's a disclaimer: This thread is not about socket type being is better than the other. It is to show how both are very similiar in performance. The ultimate choice is up to you and you alone.
Summary
754 offers better value for those who don't upgrade..those buy a new complete new box every 3-5years and out with the old. 754 also offer a 3-5% loss in performance compared with 939 at same clock speeds, but still presenting a better value since 754 parts are clocked higher to begin with and priced much cheaper than 3-5%.
Performance:
Both types of processors are close in performance.
Please review the chart below for further questions.
CPU Charts
Newcastles run at a faster clock speed. The they can run more tasks at once so they are slightly faster when Audio/Video editing/compiling and multitasking.
Winchesters have slightly better memory management and are slightly faster when it comes to games.
Price
They are very close in price with the Newcastle core being slightly cheaper ($25) than a Winchester core. The difference in the price of motherboards tend to be much greater with Nforce 4 motherboard selling for about $170.00 now while an Nforce3 motherboard sells for about $80.00.
"Pci-e and Dual Channel RAM"
To gain the advantage of PCI-e and Dual Channel RAM one should buy a Nforce4 motherboard. That will increase the price difference between the 754 and 939 processors close to $100.00. Bear in mind for little more than $100.00 one could upgrade from a 6600GT to a 6800GT or add 1 more GIG of memory among other things that will increase performance more noticably.
Dual channel RAM is a very good selling point if you were selling AMD processors. But Dual Channel's translation into performance is very neglegable, There is about a 5% improvement in overall performance which is more than made up by the faster clock speeds of the 754 CPU's. In that case having a faster clock speed would be better.
Quote: originally posted by Zebo:
"I have both 754 and 939. One at 2650Mhz, the other at 2655Mhz.. Performance is indescerable between the sockets without using select benchmarks. and even then only insignifigant in a couple tests...Mainly games.
Basically bandwith mean little to A64 due to it's incredibe low latency of it's architecture which benefits both sockets similarly."
For more information read
Zebo's memory Test
"939 is better because it will be made into dual core."
There are always rumors saying this or that about what might be. But speculation is only worth while in the stock market, but not when it comes to building a system. Here's the answer "Dual core will not come to the Wichester core." The Winchester core is not optimized for dual core systems and will not be used in dual core systems in the future. Also, consider the fact chipmakers make more money when there is no upgrade path. History has shown us that upgrade paths are very often distrupted by even minor changes in chip makers designs.
For those of you still not convinced. Check out the AMD roadmap. It clearly shows that the Toledo and not the Winchester will be dual core for desktops. In addition AMD will come out with at least 3 more .09nm chips from now till then. (Socket types have yet to be determined) AMD Road Map
"939 Winchester are more upgradable"
Again, upgradablilty is subjective and will be determined by the individual.
Studies have shown more than 80% of people do not upgrade their computer for at least 3 years or more. If they do upgrade most upgrade the video card only.
"What about those people who upgrade more often?"
It's not cost effect for anyone to upgrade every 6 months. That's a choice only hard core enthusiasts chose to make. For the rest of us the life of a computer is analogous to its performance. When it comes time to upgrade similar performing systems will need to be upgraded at about the same time.
"People buy computers for performance and not the socket type."
Here's another way of saying it. Technology is so dynamic and unpredicable in 3 years it will not matter if one owns a Newcastle or Winchester. Chances are by that time an upgrade would include both a new motherboard and processor regardless which socket type it is.
People have brought up the cost of upgrading. Here's the short and skinny.
If one were to buy a system today and upgrade the CPU and Graphics card in 3 years the only difference between a 939 PCI-e owner and a 754 owner is that the 754 owner may want to upgrade his motherboard also. But that's not a problem. Here's why....
1) There is hardly any cost benefit between getting new motherboard now rather than later. In fact costs are likely to run less if one were to buy one later. And considering the price of the newer nforc4 motherboards can be as much as $100.00 higher than an NForce3 motherboard it could be an advantage to buy one later.
2) The 754 buyer has the option to buy newer technology because it could be integrated into the new motherboard.
3) The 939 owner will have to upgrade again sooner rather than later because the technology on his motherboard is older.
4) And finally the 754 owner can use the old CPU, MOBO, and Graphics card for a secondary system or sell it or give it to a family member. While the 939 owner has an old CPU and Graphics are that won't be much use to anyone else unless they purchased a new motherboard to use them those components.
Also, here's a bold perdiction that I'm willing to bet just about everyone will agree on. The next big leap in performance will not happen on a (939) Winchester Core CPU....
Even if you upgrade your 939 to a less expensive FX chip in the future you're upgrading to negligable performance gains. What does that mean? You wont notice a thing. Wow that's pretty revealing isn't it? And guess what else? You'll have spent almost $200.00 or more preparing and upgrading that system for a few nano second improvement in performance over the system you built today.
When is comes down to it, if you don't mind spending an extra the extra cash on a socket 939 that's fine for you. But buying one over the other solely because you think or some tells you " it's upgradable" is fairytale thinking and should not be a consideration. There is no reason not to buy the best performing system you can right now regardless what socket type it is.