777 crash at san Francisco airport

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BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
Which would be an incredibly selfish thing to do. During an emergency vacate of an aircraft, ALL passengers are able to disembark within 90 seconds per FAA certifications. Six doors and slides are opened, it is not like a normal landing and all passengers file out one door to the jetway.

In my opinion, and every person who is an actual aviation professional, there is NO EXCUSE for grabbing your luggage after an accident like this, even if your bag cost $5000.

There are photos showing some passengers carrying 2 bags and more with them right after the slide. That would no doubt slow things down, the aisle is only so wide.

I only hope those people did such an incredibly selfish act through shock, and not selfishness and greed.

Or at least stay seated till the everyone else has had a chance to get out, then if it lights up you've only cooked yourself. In that type of situation there might not be a fire the moment the plane stops but the belly tank is underneath the wing spar, who knows if it's started leaking JP4 and is moments away from ignition..
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,513
24
76
Or at least stay seated till the everyone else has had a chance to get out, then if it lights up you've only cooked yourself. In that type of situation there might not be a fire the moment the plane stops but the belly tank is underneath the wing spar, who knows if it's started leaking JP4 and is moments away from ignition..

I see your point, but even then you are risking the Flight Attendant who would probably come and try to help you thinking you are stuck or whatever. And I am fairly certain a 777 drinks Jet-A, rather than JP4.

The Asiana 777 still had probably 8-10 tons of fuel on board, even after a transpac flight from Incheon-Seoul. They have to have enough fuel to handle a holding pattern or flying to the alternate airport that their flightplan must designate.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
I see your point, but even then you are risking the Flight Attendant who would probably come and try to help you thinking you are stuck or whatever. And I am fairly certain a 777 drinks Jet-A, rather than JP4.

The Asiana 777 still had probably 8-10 tons of fuel on board, even after a transpac flight from Incheon-Seoul. They have to have enough fuel to handle a holding pattern or flying to the alternate airport that their flightplan must designate.

Yea, and to "people can work in parallel" crap I call BS, the overheads had to have been a mess of peoples bags all strewn about, no way in hell anyone should even THINK about stopping. A burning dwelling is bad enough and people have got themselves hurt/killed trying to grab stuff from a burning building but a friggin packed plane with a tiny aisle that burns jet fuel to operate?, fuck that crap, I'm outta that thing ASAP and if someone was blocking my exit trying to reach into the overhead I would remove them quickly so I could get out. Maybe the flight attendants should start harping that fact in the pre-flight speech before departure..
 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
126
Did they have to call out when they were done so the next person can take their turn?

Did people have to complete the act of standing up then reach back down or could they not do that at the same time either? Imagine yourself in that scenario... it's right there in front of you and you decide to leave it instead. Really, 1 second and you weren't in the aisle yet. People are doing some serious monday-morning quarterbacking by the book here. Overhead luggage you definitely leave, I'm not debating that.

Your plane just crashed, it's pandemonium in the airplane, people are trapped in their seats, most are desperately trying to get out, the cabin is filling up with smoke, flight attendants are urging you to get out. here is a picture of what it looks like, minus the smoke and all the people trying to get out:





And YOU, in your infinite wisdom are going to bother to pick up your hand held luggage instead of vacating the airplane ASAP and having your hands free to possibly help other injured or trapped passenger!!!!!

You did not think this true, did you?
 

AmdEmAll

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2000
6,688
2
81
Your plane just crashed, it's pandemonium in the airplane, people are trapped in their seats, most are desperately trying to get out, the cabin is filling up with smoke, flight attendants are urging you to get out. here is a picture of what it looks like, minus the smoke and all the people trying to get out:





And YOU, in your infinite wisdom are going to bother to pick up your hand held luggage instead of vacating the airplane ASAP and having your hands free to possibly help other injured or trapped passenger!!!!!

You did not think this true, did you?

Those pictures are of the seats near the tail which took the most damage (before fire). Middle and up did not look like this right after the accident.. Having said that I can understand grabbing the backpack that is right in front of you and throwing it on in your row but grabbing luggage and duty free bags, etc is just retarded.. get off the plane already.
 

chowderhead

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 1999
2,633
263
126
http://news.sky.com/story/1112887/san-francisco-crash-survivors-tell-of-horror

the head Flight attendant
Mrs Lee said that many of the passengers were confused and disorientated.

She shouted to the Chinese passengers to evacuate immediately. Many of them tried to take their hand baggage with them, but she said she was forced to order them not to.

Mrs Lee said several fires broke out within the cabin and she was not aware that the tail of the plane had broken off because the ceiling between her and the rear of the aircraft had collapsed.

This woman did it all with a broken tailbone!

Grabbing luggage delayed their exit and potentially endangered others.
Damaged luggage could have rip the escape slide as they evacuated.
Retrieving luggage could means not paying attention to flight crew instructions
 
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rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,856
1,048
126
And YOU, in your infinite wisdom are going to bother to pick up your hand held luggage instead of vacating the airplane ASAP and having your hands free to possibly help other injured or trapped passenger!!!!!

You did not think this true, did you?

Again too much quarterbacking. You don't know what you're going to do in a given situation and neither do I until it happens. I'm saying I'm inclined to pick up my backpack full of expensive stuff if I know it's right there in front of me, rather than looking at it and deciding to leave it. It's not bulky like luggage and it takes literally 2-3 seconds. You are not going to change my mind arguing 2-3 seconds which is what it takes to also get up and out of the seat. Infinite wisdom? Dramatic much?
 
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chowderhead

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 1999
2,633
263
126
Again too much quarterbacking. You don't know what you're going to do in a given situation and neither do I until it happens. I'm saying I'm inclined to pick up my backpack full of expensive stuff if I know it's right there in front of me, rather than looking at it and deciding to leave it. It's not bulky like luggage and it takes literally 2-3 seconds. Infinite wisdom? Dramatic much?

I'm not talking about backpacks and purses that can be taken in seconds, there were roller bags and duty free shopping bags that had to be taken from overhead compartments or less likely if they fell out.

the part that talks about the FA's quote about stopping people from taking luggage has been removed from most articles but she was an eye witness who saw "many" people trying to take luggage and she told them to stop and evacuate because that is what she was trained to do in order to speed the evacuation. Her actions IMO saved lives.
 
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Mar 16, 2005
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on second thought, taking the carry on baggage off could have cleared any obstacles for the passengers trapped behind. i'm sure overhead bins opened up and spilled bags everywhere.
 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
126
Again too much quarterbacking. You don't know what you're going to do in a given situation and neither do I until it happens. I'm saying I'm inclined to pick up my backpack full of expensive stuff if I know it's right there in front of me, rather than looking at it and deciding to leave it. It's not bulky like luggage and it takes literally 2-3 seconds. You are not going to change my mind arguing 2-3 seconds which is what it takes to also get up and out of the seat. Infinite wisdom? Dramatic much?



When trapped in a burning tube with hundreds of other people, my only priority is to get out. Aviation experts tell me the best and fastest way to do this is by leaving everything behind and getting to the nearest exit as fast as possible. I'll take their advice over yours.
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,856
1,048
126
When trapped in a burning tube with hundreds of other people, my only priority is to get out. Aviation experts tell me the best and fastest way to do this is by leaving everything behind and getting to the nearest exit as fast as possible. I'll take their advice over yours.

ok! I didn't give any advice.

btw, here's amateur video of the actual crash - didn't see it posted.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false#sb=3186257b=facebook

That is some flip, guessing a few stories up in the air. Contrary to the computer animations which had it just sliding along to a stop. Amazing no ball of fire after it came back down.
 
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TangoJuliet

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2006
5,595
1
76
Again too much quarterbacking.

Indeed. Most of these people are Chinese and probably never even been on an airplane before. A bunch of them were teenagers as well. Here in the US we have been educated on what to do in an emergency or have seen such things on tv, internet or movies.
 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
126
ok! I didn't give any advice.

You're telling people it doesn't' matter if they take extra time to take their carry on luggage with them in the event of a crash.

I, aviation experts and most people with common sense will tell you that every seconds count when evacuating a burning airplane and that taking your belonging with you will add time to the evacuation process.



Slide show of the crash
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
ok! I didn't give any advice.

btw, here's amateur video of the actual crash - didn't see it posted.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false#sb=3186257b=facebook

That is some flip, guessing a few stories up in the air. Contrary to the computer animations which had it just sliding along to a stop. Amazing no ball of fire after it came back down.

Yea the CNN animation was so far off it was LOL AND they had the exclusive video!. After a 10hr trip it was probably low on fuel, that might be the only reason there was no fireball, the fact that it slammed into the wall hard enough to rip off the entire tail, cartwheel, and remain mostly intact is a testament to a very solid design..
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,856
1,048
126
You're telling people it doesn't' matter if they take extra time to take their carry on luggage with them in the event of a crash.

I, aviation experts and most people with common sense will tell you that every seconds count when evacuating a burning airplane and that taking your belonging with you will add time to the evacuation process.

Extra time as if it's really a big deal to grab a pack in front of you... lol. Christ man it's as quick as touching your shoe and getting up. You're ridiculous with this "but everybody says" bs. Keep going, but I think there's only so many ways you or I can say the same thing. Go.
 
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Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
126
Extra time as if it's really a big deal to grab a pack in front of you... lol. Christ man it's as quick as touching your shoe and getting up. You're ridiculous with this "but everybody says" bs. Keep going, but I think there's only so many ways you or I can say the same thing. Go.

You're right, we are not going to change each other's mind. :biggrin:


Meanwhile, video of the evacuation:
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
There may be a logical explanation for carrying luggage.

Most likely, the overhead bins came open and luggage rained down on them and into the aisles.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
Yea the CNN animation was so far off it was LOL AND they had the exclusive video!. After a 10hr trip it was probably low on fuel, that might be the only reason there was no fireball, the fact that it slammed into the wall hard enough to rip off the entire tail, cartwheel, and remain mostly intact is a testament to a very solid design..

It didn't cartwheel. The right wing came up high, but it didn't flip over or anything. It more or less pirouetted flat with a high wing tip up.

You can see that the nose gear stub maintained runway contact all the time, gouging a trail all the way.

http://cfile22.uf.tistory.com/image/23145C3A51D8D91D137059
 

TangoJuliet

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2006
5,595
1
76
I spoke to a buddy of mine earlier and this is what he said

Although the ILS was OTS there is an LPV GPS approach to 28L that would have given them a glide slope indication if they had set it up. If it had been set up and displaying a glide slope the GPWS should have activated.
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,221
5,083
146
The thought that an asian aircrew would be reticent to perform a rejected landing more than any other is really not accurate.
I have been a passenger on a few dozen commercial flights and never experienced a rejected landing. Has anybody else here been in a commercial airliner that had to go around again?
For any aircrew, it is something to avoid if at all possible. It will always alarm the passengers.
It is really too bad, I am sure accidents and hard landings happen due to this desire to 'git 'er done.'
I always welcomed the opportunity to perform a rejected landing for practice purposes. I've had more than one pilot pull out in front of me and force me to go around on uncontrolled airports. My "type A" buddies would light up the radio and cuss a guy out for it. I preferred the subtle approach.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
Okay, that approach vid is before the threshold was moved. Not sure how that relates to PAPI lights.
 

coxmaster

Diamond Member
Dec 14, 2007
3,017
3
81
I spoke to a buddy of mine earlier and this is what he said

Although the ILS was OTS there is an LPV GPS approach to 28L that would have given them a glide slope indication if they had set it up. If it had been set up and displaying a glide slope the GPWS should have activated.

I can't speak too much towards this because this 777 doesn't have the avionics I work with.. But in many cases the pilot wouldn't have needed to set up any sort of approach for EGPWS or TAWS to activate and give a warning.. Again this is entirely dependent on the avionics but I dont have any experience with those inferior Honeywell avionics :whiste:
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
Here is an email from a United crew holding short of the runway as the Asiana B-777 approached:

On July 6, 2013 at approximately 1827Z I was the 747-400 relief F/O on flt 885, ID326/06 SFO-KIX. I was a witness to the Asiana Flt 214 accident. We had taxied to hold short of runway 28L at SFO on taxiway F, and were waiting to rectify a HAZMAT cargo issue as well as our final weights before we could run our before takeoff checklist and depart. As we waited on taxiway F heading East, just prior to the perpendicular holding area, all three pilots took notice of the Asiana 777 on short final. I noticed the aircraft looked low on glidepath and had a very high deck angle compared to what seemed “normal”. I then noticed at the apparent descent rate and closure to the runway environment the aircraft looked as though it was going to impact the approach lights mounted on piers in the SF Bay. The aircraft made a fairly drastic looking pull up in the last few feet and it appeared and sounded as if they had applied maximum thrust. However the descent path they were on continued and the thrust applied didn't appear to come soon enough to prevent impact. The tail cone and empennage of the 777 impacted the bulkhead seawall and departed the airplane and the main landing gear sheared off instantly. This created a long debris field along the arrival end of 28L, mostly along the right side of 28L. We saw the fuselage, largely intact, slide down the runway and out of view of our cockpit. We heard much confusion and quick instructions from SFO Tower and a few moments later heard an aircraft go around over the runway 28 complex. We realized within a few moments that we were apparently unharmed so I got on the PA and instructed everyone to remain seated and that we were safe.

...
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/518568-asiana-flight-crash-san-francisco-51.html
 
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