780/770 sales appear slow

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SirPauly

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2009
5,187
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So when TPU does these graphs which prices are they going by?
It'd be nice if they would supply clocks/prices for how they get there score.


Offered right on that specific page:

Wizzard said:
We looked up the current USD price of each card on the popular online shop Newegg and used that value and all relative performance numbers to calculate the Performance-per-Dollar index.
 

Lepton87

Platinum Member
Jul 28, 2009
2,544
9
81
Offered right on that specific page:

1024x768 as important as 1920x1080 or 2560x1600, it's basically useless. Also I don't like their new test suite, they threw out games that every single card had problems with rendering fast enough and kept games that even GTX580 has no problems of providing decent frame-rates. They kept Diablo 3 instead of Alan Wake or Borderlands2 which is not demanding at all just like Call of Duty Black Opps. But sure, use it as a indisputable metric, whenever it suits your cheer-leading. And they did that right before the launch of GTX7XX series. Sure, it had nothing to do with it.
 

SirPauly

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2009
5,187
1
0
In the link I offered -- 1920 x 1080 and 2560 x 1600 are offered as well, separately!
 

tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
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so your litmus test is "i see cards in stock, failure" vs. "i don't see cards in stock, success"

is this a joke?

To further support this theory, I did not run out and buy one on day 1, therefore it must be a failure

I asked all nine people I work with if they bought one. None of them did. This affirms that the GTX 700 series cards, a week into their release, based on widely produced and available chips, is a complete disaster and utter failure.

I mean, NONE out of nine of my coworkers bought one so the cards must be selling like crap!)(@!$%^ and Nvidia obviously doesn't know how to run a business.
 

RaistlinZ

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 2001
7,470
9
91
I bought one. But only because the 7970 in my sig is dying and causing system crashes. Figured I'd give Nvidia a go this time around.
 

TidusZ

Golden Member
Nov 13, 2007
1,765
2
81
Good shits been too expensive for the last 2 years.

Yep, I do not like all these price increases one bit. I remember buying a GTX 295 (top of the line 2 gpu card) for $500. Today that card would cost $1000 and the GTX 285 would be like $700, so on and so forth.



also I refuse to buy a new hard drive until i can get 2 terabytes for less than what I paid several years ago ($70). I'll just keep deleting crappy tv shows I wont rewatch until they can match the prices pre-flood from years ago
 

24601

Golden Member
Jun 10, 2007
1,683
39
86
Yep, I do not like all these price increases one bit. I remember buying a GTX 295 (top of the line 2 gpu card) for $500. Today that card would cost $1000 and the GTX 285 would be like $700, so on and so forth.



also I refuse to buy a new hard drive until i can get 2 terabytes for less than what I paid several years ago ($70). I'll just keep deleting crappy tv shows I wont rewatch until they can match the prices pre-flood from years ago

That's because production shifted to 3tB and 4tB drives.

3tB drives go on sale for 100 USD all the time.

Sadly 4tB drives are not going back to the 130-140 sale price very often.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
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I don't have access to hard numbers but since launch I've seen numerous 780's and now 770's in stock at all retailers. I'm use to seeing cards out of stock for weeks when the next gen is released. Is it now confirmed that the 7xx series was a flop?

Heh the manufacturers cant win. If they have low supply and out of stock they are blamed for not having enough cards at launch. If they have ample supply then clearly demand is low.

I suspect demand is just fine but Nvidia had a hard launch with plenty of supply. Afterall the 770 is an up clocked 680 and the 780 is a titan with units disabled. They had months to stockpile these cards for a launch.
 
Jun 24, 2012
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Without actual sales figures, it's difficult to estimate how well these cards are selling. Personally, I wouldn't buy HD7970GE or GTX770 at $400 today. These prices are outrages for what essentially is a performance level of a January 2012 HD7970 @ 1.05-1.1ghz or a March 2012 GTX680 with a mild overclock. Buying 28nm tech for $400 with this level of performance is just as wasteful as spending $400-450 of your money on a GTX580 near the end of its life.

I wonder if for the next series NV will stay conservative and wait another 12 months to launch a 550mm2 Maxwell? If NV releases the large die Maxwell right away, then we'd be looking at 50%+ more performance over the 780 by possibly summer of 2014. That would be spectacular.


If AMD has something to put out that warrants the larger die going into an 880, then nVidia will do precisely that. However, if AMD shows up with something that for whatever reason (ie., poor drivers, broken hardware, poor design, the moon is the wrong phase, whatever) competes only with their mid-range instead of their high end, they'll get by with yet another use of the mid-range product as the high end for a year and wait until they have so many chips lying around they'll know precisely how yields are going to look AND they'll have built up demand to be ready for a new $1k card to come: The Titan (2nd Gen) for $1199.

And of course, The Titan (2nd Gen) will be just a warm-up for the main event, the Geforce 990 that'll be a "cut-down version of the Titan (2nd Gen) with less memory and a few other options removed, but the performance will be mostly the same or better. And it'll be $850 instead.

And people will call it a deal because "it's got most of the performance of the Titan (2nd Gen), except 'only' at $850!"

This is the future if AMD continues to: 1) show up with a card with middling performance (and minimal gain over the last gen) due largely to poorly coded drivers that caused performance restrictions that afflicted them from launch until March of this year (ie., poor performance first half of last year, stutter until first part of this year, poorly designed memory manager by their own admission) as their high end at ridiculous prices higher than last gen for 10-15% performance gain over last gen; 2) abstain from releasing refreshes of current cards altogether.

If this is the future, then this sucks because it means nVidia and Intel get to do whatever they like. Look at Haswell and what it gives the desktop gamer. Look at the Geforce 7xx series and what it does for the gamer. This is what AMD not competing does for the gamer.

They aren't trying. They're focused on mobile and tablets and anything EXCEPT their core markets because they've written AMD off. And all AMD has to offer is, "Hey! GUYZ! Don't you still want more Bioshock Infinite, Tomb Raider, Crysis 3, and Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon? GUYZ!? You don't all have that from buying it off ebay, do you? DO YOU?"

Only crickets answer. Because AMD, Intel, and nVidia have managed to completely generate a hardware release cycle that everyone looks at from every angle and says, "You know... there's not even a 10% gain for anything below the $500 price point in either CPU's or GPU's. Haswell is going to overclock more poorly than IVB and IVB was whined about for ...untl Haswell. And the 7xx series is either too expensive (ie., 780) or not an upgrade for 6xx series users."

It looks like that problem of their users not upgrading because they don't see a need for it is now creeping into the enthusiast segment because Intel and Haswell are going to offer their most hardcore and traditional customers from the last two generations... absolutely nothing to pine for.
 
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iMacmatician

Member
Oct 4, 2012
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I asked all nine people I work with if they bought one. None of them did. This affirms that the GTX 700 series cards, a week into their release, based on widely produced and available chips, is a complete disaster and utter failure.

I mean, NONE out of nine of my coworkers bought one so the cards must be selling like crap!)(@!$%^ and Nvidia obviously doesn't know how to run a business.
I haven't bought a graphics chip since 2009 (when I got my MBP) unless I include the G98 keychain I got last year. So clearly, the entire GPU market has been failing for years!
 

bleucharm28

Senior member
Sep 27, 2008
494
1
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I guess he's saying since release date of the 780's. I remember when the 680's rolled out, they were gone fast. The second EVGA listed a card up for sale, the card was sold in heart beat. As of now, I can 5 different brand to choose from. Not to mention local stores still have a few in stock.
 

FalseChristian

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2002
3,322
0
71
The problem is is that the GTX 780 is only a smidgen faster than the GTX 680. There's no reason to 'upgrade'. I think the GTX 760 and the GTX 750 TI BOOST will be the winners. I plan on getting 2 GTX 750 Ti BOOST when they come out to replace my old GTX 460 1GB SLI.
 

tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
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I guess he's saying since release date of the 780's. I remember when the 680's rolled out, they were gone fast. The second EVGA listed a card up for sale, the card was sold in heart beat. As of now, I can 5 different brand to choose from. Not to mention local stores still have a few in stock.

Which was explained why this is the case by Genx87 a few posts above.
 

tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
7,348
642
121
Heh the manufacturers cant win. If they have low supply and out of stock they are blamed for not having enough cards at launch. If they have ample supply then clearly demand is low.

I suspect demand is just fine but Nvidia had a hard launch with plenty of supply. Afterall the 770 is an up clocked 680 and the 780 is a titan with units disabled. They had months to stockpile these cards for a launch.

No matter what you do, someone will have a reason to complain. That is life.

If you gave away a lamborghini, the recipient would no doubt complain "How do I afford the gas and upkeep?!"

Can't satisfy everyone. Ever.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
Sure, and offering more price/performance value than the HD7970 and HD 7970ghz!

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Gigabyte/GeForce_GTX_770_WindForce_OC/29.html

Comparing one overpriced card to another is not a justification that either is good value overall in the context of where we stand in the 28nm node. You also seem to be clinging to just 1 review and ignoring all the other reviews where the GTX770 is either barely faster or slower at higher resolutions:
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/grafikkarten/2013/nvidia-geforce-gtx-770-im-test/4/

"If you run an average of the single-card frame rates generated in this review, GeForce GTX 770 is a 52.4 FPS card. The Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition lands at 53.8 FPS." ~ Tom's Hardware

You also haven't been keeping up with prices of HD7970Ghz. It can now be found for $380 with 4 free games. Since some people use mods, and may not be comfortable buying a 2GB card by mid-2013 for $400, the GTX770 isn't a slam dunk you make it sound since some folks may be looking at a $380 HD7970Ghz 3GB vs. a $450 GTX770 4GB.

What about European pricing? HD7970/7970GE are still leading in price/performance.


GTX770 and 7970GE are a virtual tie at 1920x1080, but 7970GE still pulls slightly ahead at 2560x1600.
http://www.3dcenter.org/artikel/lau...launch-analyse-nvidia-geforce-gtx-770-seite-2

The price of the HD 7970 was 549 and the GTX 680 was 499!

The GTX 770 can over-clock, too.

Yes, and if you understand how GPU cycles work, going from $499 GTX680 to a $399 GTX680 with 10% more performance 15 months later is a bad deal. Care to guess how much more performance we'll get with a $399 20nm card in 15 months from now? The GTX770 at $400-450 is a stop-gap solution between an aging 28nm tech and the next generation of 20nm cards in 2014. It's nothing more but a slightly retweaked GTX680. Would you recommend people buying a GTX580 15 months into its life for $400? I hope not.

Buying HD7950 and overclocking it and then saving $130-180 from not buying GTX770/770 4GB and then reselling the HD7950 and upgrading to a next gen 20nm $300 card in 15 months from now is a way better method to manage PC upgrades. And if you want NV, just wait for GTX760Ti. HD7950 that can be overclocked to 1.1ghz and give 90% of the performance of either card for just $270.

Neither HD7970GE nor the GTX770 will be good enough for next gen titles anyway compared to a 1.1ghz HD7950. There is no point in buying either of these cards now and holding onto them for 3 years. The 770 is also crippled by 2GB of VRAM which means spending $450 for the 4GB version for those who plan on keeping it for 3+ years. Might as well get an HD7950 / GTX760Ti + OC those and upgrade sooner since 20nm tech is likely to be here by summer of 2014.

It was different purchasing a GTX680 for $500 in March 2012 because the $100 increase over the 770 provided 15 months of top notch gaming or about $7 / month not needing to wait for the GTX770. When people bought the 680, they had a very good idea that NV won't have anything new for at least 12 months that beats it. Also, looking at the price of HD7970GE by July 2012, it dipped to $470 for after-market versions. That means those who didn't buy the 7970GE either, needed to wait 11 more months to get a GTX770 that's barely better for just $70 less. Even if you take a GTX770 with max overclock, it's still barely faster than HD7970 @ 1.15-1.2ghz / GTX680 @ 1.2ghz. Talk about mistiming your GPU upgrades.
 
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RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
This is the future if AMD continues to: 1) show up with a card with middling performance (and minimal gain over the last gen) due largely to poorly coded drivers that caused performance restrictions that afflicted them from launch until March of this year (ie., poor performance first half of last year, stutter until first part of this year, poorly designed memory manager by their own admission) as their high end at ridiculous prices higher than last gen for 10-15% performance gain over last gen; 2) abstain from releasing refreshes of current cards altogether.

1. GTX770 and HD7970GE are virtually tied. GTX770/7970GE are at least 60-65% faster than GTX570/6970. I wouldn't call those gains minimal. Even compared to GTX580, now that AMD is working closer with developers, a stock 7970GE is beating the 580 by 33%, 43%, and in AMD Evolved titles up to 70%, etc. That's pretty good since GTX580 1.5GB were going for $430-440 and 3GB near $500 mark when the 7970 launched.

2. HD7970 overclocked is 45-80% faster than GTX580 @ 860mhz (!!!). At $100 price premium over GTX580 1.5GB, that was a great deal, especially since 7970's mined for a year+. You keep saying AMD's drivers were poor in the beginning but even with less than optimized drivers, HD7970 OC mopped the floor with the 580. Compare a $380 7970Ghz against $650 GTX780 now and the performance increase from GTX780 OC vs. 7970GE OC is far less than 7970 OC had over 580 OC and yet NV is charging $270 more for that. Why aren't you ripping NV's pricing on GTX780? It looks so much worse against 7970GE than 7970 did vs. the 580. Yet you are giving NV a pass for overpriced 780/Titans.

3. HD7970 $549 @ 1.2ghz is still trading blows with a GTX770 OC. Considering the 7970 is 18 months old, that's not bad. Looking at GTX285/480/580, those cards were all superceeded in no time and lost a lot more of their resale value than 7970 did. Compared to those overpriced NV cards, the 7970 OC still holds its own. In less than 8 months the 285 replaced at $650 280 at $350, and then 4890 delivered 280's level of performance for $260 in 9 months from the time the 280 launched. 7970 OC is still holding its own outside 780/Titan despite being 18 months old tech.

4. Tahiti XT performs pretty good as a balanced gaming + compute card. Sure, NV beats it with GTX780/Titan but the die size /transistor NV needed to accomplish this is huge (Tahiti XT: 4.3B on 365mm2 vs. 7.1B on 561mm2).

It's not that Tahiti XT is a poor performer, but more like NV is capable of building large die monolith GPUs and AMD isn't. This has been known since HD3870 days. Why people still expect AMD's 300-400mm2 die to compete with NV's 500-560mm2 die is mind-boggling.

AMD's Tahiti XT is not a large die chip that's meant to compete with something like a GTX780. The fact that 780 beats it by only 15-25% despite a nearly 54% increase in die size and that it took nearly a year to respin a 680 to just match a July 2012 performance of 7970GE shows Tahiti XT did its intended function. Unfortunately for AMD, until they start building 500-550mm2 die or NV messes up architecturally, NV has to have a winning flagship GPU. There is no just way that a 380-430mm2 AMD chip can hope to compete in performance with a 530-560mm2 Maxwell unless NV royally screws the pooch on Maxwell architecture.

I am just hoping NV launches the GTX880 flagship at $650 right away instead of making us wait 12 more months to 2015. The market can co-exist with a $400 GTX870/$650 GTX880 and $1000 Titan 2. I think the reason NV waited this round is because they couldn't get GK110 out on time and even their corporate clients (oak ridge) had a massive backlog of K20Xs to November 2012. NV had to launch GTX680 in March 2012 since they couldn't supply GTX780/Titan in 2012 at any reasonable volumes.
 
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blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
Who cares if it's selling slowly or quickly, unless you own a stake in the company or something? I sold all of my semiconductor stocks (including even Intel) a while back. To me, it's all about price/perf and perf/watt, and GTX780 doesn't really deliver stellar price/perf or perf/watt. But a near-halo part with no single-GPU competition is expected to be priced high. The GTX 770 is priced sort of fairly for a high-end card at $400 (no games, though, and only 2GB VRAM), but if 20nm does arrive by the end of 2013, why not wait for it?
 

Kallogan

Senior member
Aug 2, 2010
340
5
76
They are useless redundant gpus that give peanuts of more perf, why bother ?

It's like Ivy to Haswell syndrome.
 

Joeydubbs

Senior member
Jun 11, 2008
211
2
81
I don't have access to hard numbers but since launch I've seen numerous 780's and now 770's in stock at all retailers. I'm use to seeing cards out of stock for weeks when the next gen is released. Is it now confirmed that the 7xx series was a flop?


AT boards are fun
 
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