beggerking
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- Jan 15, 2006
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Originally posted by: v8envy
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
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So you're saying a PCI Express 6800GS performs the same as a 6800 Ultra or x850XT? I don't buy it... not for a second. The 7800GS performs similarly to the x850XT (wins some, loses some) at it's stock speed based on nVidia's specs. And since it has the same number of pipelines and same number of ROP's and faster memory than a 6800 Ultra, and it's an improved architecture over the GeForce 6 series, it should perform at least as well as a 6800 Ultra. Therefore, based on your logic... PCIe 6800GS = 7800GS = 6800 Ultra.
Gah. I was so going to let this go. Too bad Anand's review didn't have a 6800GS PCIe compared to the 7800GS. Other review sites did. But anyhoo:
http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2686
Fear, 1600x1200:
XTPE - 71.1 fps
7800GS - 57 fps
Fear, 1600x1200, 4xAA
XTPE: 22
7800GS: 13
Far Cry, 1600x1200, 4x AA
XTPE: 48.4
7800GS: 38.5
Q4, 1600x1200, no aa:
XTPE: 63.1
7800GS: 65.8
Q4, 1600x1200, 4xAA
XTPE: 35.3
7800GS: 34.5
Splinter Cell, 1600x1200, no AA
XTPE: 49.4
7800GS: 26.9
So, from this we can draw the conclusion that outside of OpenGL games like Quake4, the 7800GS at reference clocks gets its ASS handed to it by the XTPE, by a margin of up to 45%. About the same performance delta as XTPE vs 6800GT.
Reference clock for the 7800GS is 375 mhz. 6800 Ultra is 400 mhz.
Ergo, GS != XTPE != GT Ultra. And real world performance of a ref clocked 7800GS would be within the margin of error of a GS/GT, and thusly the first cards out of the gate have the clock cranked by 75 mhz. For this very reason. Which was my point.
The 7800GS is meant to function as a 6800GS/GT replacement for the AGP world. Other review sites have come to that conclusion as well. A 6800GT is a mainstream level video card, and in the PCIe market priced accordingly. However at $307 the 7800GS is priced as an enthusiast card. To recap, it's a horrible deal, and AGP users shouldn't stand for it.
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
According to you, anyone who uses these cards has outdated hardware and wouldn't be running 1600x1200 resolution with 4XAA and 8XAF... so... what's the point in showing results at that resolution?
Originally posted by: v8envy
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
According to you, anyone who uses these cards has outdated hardware and wouldn't be running 1600x1200 resolution with 4XAA and 8XAF... so... what's the point in showing results at that resolution?
You're the one who said a 6800GT overclocked is not enough for next year's games. And then said I claimed the GS == ultra == XTPE. So I showed some figures to disprove your claim -- the 7800GS absolutely does not come anywhere close to an XTPE when pushed hard. And, indeed performs slightly better than a 6800GT. Factory overclocked 6800GS (from e.g. XFX) should be very competitive with a factory overclocked 7800GS.
So *IF* an overclocked 6800GT is not enough for next years games, the 7800GS won't be either.
At lower resolutions in most AGP boxes (supporting argument: http://www.steampowered.com/status/survey.html) these cards, including the entry level 6600GT and X1600Pro will perform about the same. I was saying that anyone who wants to last a year will be fine without bleeding out $307 on one of these bad boys, they can hobble along with a $130 card until they're ready to join the rest of us. Their outlay won't buy anywhere near the gaming experience the same funds would in the PCIe world. Once those cards hit $200-ish, sure. But it's nutty to get them now for over $300.
BTW, I've got biostar nforce2 boards in 6 boxes, on 24x7x365 for going on 3 years now. Rock stable. They're no DFI or Asus, but neither are they PC Chips.
Originally posted by: Piuc2020
I mean come on, it was very low of nvidia to release a card with such low clocks, only 16 pipelines, a measly 8 ROPs and a 350$ pricetag, if it had 7800GT performance at 350$, it would be a viable upgrade for AGP users but its not even the best AGP card.
Well, I guess this makes people like me finally want to bite the bullet and get PCi-E.
Originally posted by: Piuc2020
I mean come on, it was very low of nvidia to release a card with such low clocks, only 16 pipelines, a measly 8 ROPs and a 350$ pricetag, if it had 7800GT performance at 350$, it would be a viable upgrade for AGP users but its not even the best AGP card.
Well, I guess this makes people like me finally want to bite the bullet and get PCi-E.
Originally posted by: CKXP
sadly AGP owners are getting screwed, the 7800gs is a crippled G70 has been, it's overpriced, underperforming, it's has to be OC'd heavily to be compared to the x850xt pe, and it's taking $300 of your hard earned money.
walk into in any retail store, and try to buy a desktop system with a AGP slot, it's very hard to find. the market is now geared towards PCIe, and AGP owners are being taking advantage of by the market. the 6800gs AGP is constantly priced higher, and clocked slower than it's PCIe counterpart, and there is no gurantee the card will unlock to a full fledge 6800gt. the 7800gs is no better, priced more than a 7800gt yet considerably slower. your better off saving your hard earned $300 for a future total system upgrade than buying this card, just for the sake of having a faster GPU on a dead-end interface.
Originally posted by: JamesDax
Originally posted by: CKXP
sadly AGP owners are getting screwed, the 7800gs is a crippled G70 has been, it's overpriced, underperforming, it's has to be OC'd heavily to be compared to the x850xt pe, and it's taking $300 of your hard earned money.
walk into in any retail store, and try to buy a desktop system with a AGP slot, it's very hard to find. the market is now geared towards PCIe, and AGP owners are being taking advantage of by the market. the 6800gs AGP is constantly priced higher, and clocked slower than it's PCIe counterpart, and there is no gurantee the card will unlock to a full fledge 6800gt. the 7800gs is no better, priced more than a 7800gt yet considerably slower. your better off saving your hard earned $300 for a future total system upgrade than buying this card, just for the sake of having a faster GPU on a dead-end interface.
<sigh>
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: JamesDax
Originally posted by: CKXP
sadly AGP owners are getting screwed, the 7800gs is a crippled G70 has been, it's overpriced, underperforming, it's has to be OC'd heavily to be compared to the x850xt pe, and it's taking $300 of your hard earned money.
walk into in any retail store, and try to buy a desktop system with a AGP slot, it's very hard to find. the market is now geared towards PCIe, and AGP owners are being taking advantage of by the market. the 6800gs AGP is constantly priced higher, and clocked slower than it's PCIe counterpart, and there is no gurantee the card will unlock to a full fledge 6800gt. the 7800gs is no better, priced more than a 7800gt yet considerably slower. your better off saving your hard earned $300 for a future total system upgrade than buying this card, just for the sake of having a faster GPU on a dead-end interface.
<sigh>
evidently PCIe is also dead end and some of us just want to skip this generation of overpriced and underperforming transitional HW.
So there.
i AM saving my money for the next Next gen . . . that's why i got a cheap x850xt to tide me over till then
Originally posted by: JamesDax
Originally posted by: v8envy
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
According to you, anyone who uses these cards has outdated hardware and wouldn't be running 1600x1200 resolution with 4XAA and 8XAF... so... what's the point in showing results at that resolution?
You're the one who said a 6800GT overclocked is not enough for next year's games. And then said I claimed the GS == ultra == XTPE. So I showed some figures to disprove your claim -- the 7800GS absolutely does not come anywhere close to an XTPE when pushed hard. And, indeed performs slightly better than a 6800GT. Factory overclocked 6800GS (from e.g. XFX) should be very competitive with a factory overclocked 7800GS.
So *IF* an overclocked 6800GT is not enough for next years games, the 7800GS won't be either.
At lower resolutions in most AGP boxes (supporting argument: http://www.steampowered.com/status/survey.html) these cards, including the entry level 6600GT and X1600Pro will perform about the same. I was saying that anyone who wants to last a year will be fine without bleeding out $307 on one of these bad boys, they can hobble along with a $130 card until they're ready to join the rest of us. Their outlay won't buy anywhere near the gaming experience the same funds would in the PCIe world. Once those cards hit $200-ish, sure. But it's nutty to get them now for over $300.
BTW, I've got biostar nforce2 boards in 6 boxes, on 24x7x365 for going on 3 years now. Rock stable. They're no DFI or Asus, but neither are they PC Chips.
wrong wrong... so wrong... jesus mary and joseph...
Why would anyone want to hobble along when they can get top end performance by spending $319 for a eVGA eGeforce 7800GS OC Superclock running a 460/1360?
Perhaps you should check out this review: http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/evga_e-geforce_7800_gs_co_superclock_review/">7800GS OC Superclock</a>
This card is worth every penny. If they can't afford it thats one thing. But if they can pick this up it certinly will buy them a gaming exprience simular to you in the PCIe world and they will be good for the next year(not just hobbling along) while saving for the big upgrade.
Originally posted by: beggerking
I truly don't understand why Nvidia would underclock / handicap 7800 GS so much to make it less than king of hill for AGP market...
I believe if they had stay with GT specs for GS, for the same price.. ~300, GS would sale like crazy.
Originally posted by: beggerking
7800GS is so expensive for its performance
Windows Vista is coming out soon...DX10....don't know if any hardware today will run well on them..
Originally posted by: djmihow
I'd like to see them try it @ 1280 x 1024 and 1024 x 768, showing 1600 x 1200 is useless to me.
Originally posted by: RussianSensation
So how many AGP users have 2x1 gig sticks exactly? And what does 4x512 give us?
For example, a lot of Socket 939 mainboards refuse to raise the clock generator frequency over 240-250MHz when they are equipped with a full set of four memory DIMMs
Originally posted by: Com80787
I work for a living and I don't survive by throwing away money. I realize there are people on this forum who have mommy and daddy get them the latest toys, but some of us actually work for a living and have other expenses to make room for. That means we get last gen hardware instead of the bleeding edge, and for the most part we are just fine with it.
Originally posted by: djmihow
I don't feel like buy a new mobo, processor, sata harddrive, psu and pcie videocard when I can just buy a videocard and play games on it for another year.
Originally posted by: v8envy
Originally posted by: CKXP
off topic here, but v8envy where did you get that s939 sempron?
CompUSA, it was $125 after rebate. It came with some extras -- they threw in an 80mm fan cpu cooler, Asus motherboard with a passively cooled X200 IGP chipset, 100G hard drive, 250 watt Delta PS, 256M of CAS3 PC3200, and an XP home license.
Originally posted by: 308nato
I picked up the BFG version at BB today. Its quiet, doesn't seem to heat up the case and was a great upgrade from 9500 Pro. In a nutshell, I am happy.