780G / 8200 motherboard roundup?

[coolpurplefan]

Originally posted by: deruberhanyok
News?

Hey, you said you liked the Asus M3A78-EM, can you tell me if you have lots of problems finding the correct drivers? Is it fairly reliable and stable?

I just ordered one instead of the Gigabyte partly because I find the Asus boards are just way easier for me to work with. On the other hand, I read that the latest revisions of these boards have cured all the earlier problems people were talking about.

I'm kind of wondering what kind of difference it makes though if the Asus does not have "solid caps" as some people say. EDIT: I just read the review linked in this thread and it said the Asus model they had tested did have solid capacitors. I'm not sure why the rumor on hardforum started in the first place.

 

[deruberhanyok]

As far as reliability and stability are concerned I can rate it as high as I'd hope... the HTPC it is in has been running without issue for more than a month. It reboots once a week if required after grabbing automatic updates.

I haven't had any issue with finding drivers. Asus has ones for network and sound posted if they are needed (I can't recall if XP SP3 detected the onboard networking or not, I use a wifi card in the system so I didn't pay much attention to it) and the Catalyst drivers covered everything else. I think I installed AMD's processor driver also.

I've even played some World of Warcraft on it with the onboard video. Paired with an X2 4450e and 2GB of RAM I've been able to play the game in 1280x720 (my display's native res) with medium-ish detail settings without it slowing to a crawl. Framerates drop below 20 sometimes but it's playable all of the time. I know WoW is an older title and not very demanding by today's standards but it's still nice to see an IGP handle it so easily.

Also not sure about where that solid caps thing came from... all the ones on my board are solid aluminum types. It's pretty evident in any good picture of the board.

I'm very pleased with the purchase. Highly recommended board if you're looking for 780G.

 

[wbynum]

Thanks for the Asus M3A78-EM review. Last night I was going to order the Gigabyte board but at the last minute decided on the Asus board. They claimed 140w CPU support. Given that, plus the fact that the Gigabyte and Asus were both the same price, I opted for the Asus board. Figured maybe some day I might put a more power hungry CPU in it than the 45w Athlon X2 that I also ordered.

One question. Anyone know where to get the serial port "cable" for the Asus M3A78-EM? I'm assuming it does not come with the cable for the included serial port connector that is on the motherboard.

 

[coolpurplefan]

Well, at this point I'm not sure what you mean by the network and sound drivers yet because I haven't received the motherboard. Plus the Asus site doesn't even have descriptions for their downloads. It's freakin' pathetic.

BTW, I just read the Gigabyte model exploded during overclocking. It was kind of hilarious reading about it. I also read someone with the Asus M3A78-EM used it with a Phenom 9950. Hahaha, that would rock.

I only ordered a "cheap" X2 5400+ at 2.8GHz and 2GB OCZ "Special Ops" 800MHz RAM.

I'd also like to try Linux 64 with it and try UT2004.

 

[deruberhanyok]

I just went to support.asus.com, the download section, searched for "m3a" and selected M3A78-EM from the list. There's a description under every driver posted. There are sound and networking drivers for XP and Vista, 32-bit and 64-bit for both.

I can verify that an Ubuntu Hardy 64-bit LiveCD boots and works just fine on it, though I didn't install it to the hard drive and set up the Catalyst drivers.

For what it's worth I couldn't get "Express Gate" to work at all, though I don't personally find this a big loss.

 

[coolpurplefan]

Originally posted by: deruberhanyok
I just went to support.asus.com, the download section, searched for "m3a" and selected M3A78-EM from the list. There's a description under every driver posted. There are sound and networking drivers for XP and Vista, 32-bit and 64-bit for both.

I can verify that an Ubuntu Hardy 64-bit LiveCD boots and works just fine on it, though I didn't install it to the hard drive and set up the Catalyst drivers.

For what it's worth I couldn't get "Express Gate" to work at all, though I don't personally find this a big loss.

Uh, wait a minute. How did you make the live CD? Was it just from the iso file on the uBuntu site? Is it a different download? Can you burn a CD iso image on a DVD?

What is Express Gate? (EDIT: Oh, OK, I see what the Express Gate is. Yeah, it seems useless. I got my motherboard today but waiting for the rest of the parts.)

 

[deruberhanyok]

Yes, the ISO files on their website are Live CDs, I didn't have to do anything other than download and burn. You boot right to the Ubuntu desktop with it and then install from there.

Presumably you can burn the CD-sized image to a DVD though I've never actually bothered to try that myself.

I think Express Gate would be useful if it worked. I don't know why this motherboard doesn't have the onboard flash memory to store the OS, like some of the other boards, and having to run an installer for it from Windows seems to defeat the purpose if you ask me. My problem was that aside from the very first boot I'd never again gotten the "press a key to boot into express gate" screen to appear, despite changing numerous BIOS settings that should have activated it.

I was interested in seeing how well it worked, but not interested enough to troubleshoot what I view as a flawed implementation requiring installation to the hard drive from Windows.

I took pictures of my HTPC upgrade and wrote about it here, if you happen to be interested in reading more:

http://www.deruberhanyok.net/s...The-Bits-n-Pieces.html
http://www.deruberhanyok.net/s...Rune-Its-a-Setup!.html

 

[taltamir]

why do IGP roundups always compare video game performance? who cares? no IGP is suitable for gaming. and no gamer can not afford a real video card.

IGPs are for things like HTPCs, fileservers, email/web browsing machines, etc... (or hybrid power of course).

They need to be compared on features, compatibility, power consumption, reliability, non windows drivers, etc (there is a linux based tivo like OS, there are tons of important OSes like linux and solaris for file servers, ubantoo is THE OS for email/web, etc)

 

[coolpurplefan]

Thanks for the info. I just checked and saw I have Rev. 1.01G for my Asus M3A78-EM (still waiting for other parts to arrive).

Does anybody know if that's a good revision?

BTW, it had a huge sticker on the motherboard indicating it was compatible with 140w CPUs. lol There's a real big northbridge passive cooler on it too.

 

[deruberhanyok]

taltamir-

For someone who is running games in 1024x768 and won't be playing any of the new games on the cutting edge of graphics, it's nice to know that a discrete card isn't necessary. Not everyone has to have games running at 60fps in 1920x1200 with all of the details turned up to maximum to be happy.

As I mentioned above I've played WoW on this board's IGP and, though I prefer to play it on my regular PC, I'm perfectly content with the performance of the IGP for playing it. I know a lot of people who would be equally happy with the performance it offers.

There are LOTS of gamers who can't "afford a real video card." It is nice that you think everyone has that kind of money to spend, though.

 

[coolpurplefan]

deruberhanyok,

Have you ever entered BIOS to change RAM voltage? OCZ support told me to change RAM settings to 4-4-4-15 and the voltage 2.1V (for the DDR2 Special Ops RAM). Anyway, it says Auto and I can't change it to Manual. Is there a way to change voltage to Manual so I can change it?

BTW, I just read the G.Skill F2-6400CL5D-2GBNQ works with the Asus M3A78-EM but it's too late for me now, lol, I sent for the rebate. Now I have to find a fix for the problem.

EDIT: OK, I succeeded in changing the settings and the RAM (I found using the + and - keys work instead of enter). I don't know if it made a difference, but I changed the other two settings right above it before changing that one.

 

[nerp]

Originally posted by: taltamir
why do IGP roundups always compare video game performance? who cares? no IGP is suitable for gaming. and no gamer can not afford a real video card.

IGPs are for things like HTPCs, fileservers, email/web browsing machines, etc... (or hybrid power of course).

They need to be compared on features, compatibility, power consumption, reliability, non windows drivers, etc (there is a linux based tivo like OS, there are tons of important OSes like linux and solaris for file servers, ubantoo is THE OS for email/web, etc)

I dunno man. There are a lot of people who just play the sims, spore, WoW, Simcity, puzzle games, tetris, etc, and don't need a video card at all for decent performance. There are a lot of people playing at 1280x1024 or lower and even the HD3200 is more than enough for that.

Not having a discrete card saves power, reduces heat, lowers cost and allows you to build a slim machine with a tiny case and a mAtx board. This is a fantastic solution for a huge number of people who are casual gamers, not enthusiasts.

The 780G changes the game.

 

[coolpurplefan]

deruberhanyok, (OR ANYONE WITH THE SAME MOBO)

WTH kind of drivers did you use for your Asus M3A78-EM? I'm very confused here. I set the correct timings and voltage for the RAM and I'm still getting the slight delay thing when I click on things. Once it gets going, it's fast but something is wrong and it might be the drivers.

 

[deruberhanyok]

I just checked and the system is using Catalyst 8.6. I've never seen any "slight delay" when clicking things, though. What are the rest of your system specs and what exactly are you noticing?

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: deruberhanyok
taltamir-

For someone who is running games in 1024x768 and won't be playing any of the new games on the cutting edge of graphics, it's nice to know that a discrete card isn't necessary. Not everyone has to have games running at 60fps in 1920x1200 with all of the details turned up to maximum to be happy.

As I mentioned above I've played WoW on this board's IGP and, though I prefer to play it on my regular PC, I'm perfectly content with the performance of the IGP for playing it. I know a lot of people who would be equally happy with the performance it offers.

There are LOTS of gamers who can't "afford a real video card." It is nice that you think everyone has that kind of money to spend, though.

You seem to think I mean a 200+ car when I Say a real video card...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814121259

that is what the 3450 @ 20$ is for.
Nvidia also has a 20$ video card.
And you can buy pretty decent last 2 gens used cards for that amount too.. no gamer can not afford 20$ for a discrete card.
Especially in the age of hybrid SLI / CF (i did mention that those performance figures matter )

Originally posted by: nerp

Originally posted by: taltamir
why do IGP roundups always compare video game performance? who cares? no IGP is suitable for gaming. and no gamer can not afford a real video card.

IGPs are for things like HTPCs, fileservers, email/web browsing machines, etc... (or hybrid power of course).

They need to be compared on features, compatibility, power consumption, reliability, non windows drivers, etc (there is a linux based tivo like OS, there are tons of important OSes like linux and solaris for file servers, ubantoo is THE OS for email/web, etc)

I dunno man. There are a lot of people who just play the sims, spore, WoW, Simcity, puzzle games, tetris, etc, and don't need a video card at all for decent performance. There are a lot of people playing at 1280x1024 or lower and even the HD3200 is more than enough for that.

Not having a discrete card saves power, reduces heat, lowers cost and allows you to build a slim machine with a tiny case and a mAtx board. This is a fantastic solution for a huge number of people who are casual gamers, not enthusiasts.

The 780G changes the game.

sims, spore, WoW - require a video card better then an IGP for reasonable performance.
Simcity, puzzle games, tetris - will run perfectly on ANY video device (IGP or whatever).

Casual or enthusiast are stupid terms. Its based on how much money you have and how much money you are willing to sink into it. I know absolute addicts whose life revolves around it and have no money to buy good hardware. And I know rich people that buy the best of the best and never use it.

And again, you are assuming I mean a 200$ video card. There are very decent 20$ video cards from nvidia and ATI that perform the same or better then a top end IGP.

Not having a discrete card saves power, reduces heat, lowers cost and allows you to build a slim machine with a tiny case and a mAtx board.

yes, all EXCELLENT reasons that SHOULD be reviewed that have nothing to do with gamers.

I might have exaggerated a bit with the who cares, but really, it is the absolute LEAST important bit of information about an IGP.

 

[deruberhanyok]

Originally posted by: taltamir
sims, spore, WoW - require a video card better then an IGP for reasonable performance.

I mentioned this previously. I've played WoW on my 780G board at 1280x720 and middle-ish detail settings and it runs just fine. Some people are okay with playing in even lower resolutions, 800x600.

I'm not just saying that the 780G "appears" to offer reasonable performance in some games, I'm saying that it actually does. Just because you think it is an irrelevant feature does not make it so for everyone.

I agree with you that roundups don't really need to focus on gaming performance, though. That's what initial chipset reviews are for. In fact, it seems to me that roundups are a great vehicle for comparing and contrasting different features offered by various manufacturers.

If you'd rather read a review that focuses on other features than just the gaming performance of the IGP, I highly recommend Silent PC Review.

 

[nerp]

Originally posted by: taltamir
sims, spore, WoW - require a video card better then an IGP for reasonable performance.
Simcity, puzzle games, tetris - will run perfectly on ANY video device (IGP or whatever).

Since I own a 780G machine and play games on it and I own a puma based laptop and play games on it, I have to disagree. Sims, Spore, WoW run beautifully on the HD3200. Startlingly well, in fact. There simply is no need for even a $20 video card to play those games. The IGP on the 780G is more than enough for that vast majority of gamers.

Not having a discrete card saves power, reduces heat, lowers cost and allows you to build a slim machine with a tiny case and a mAtx board.

yes, all EXCELLENT reasons that SHOULD be reviewed that have nothing to do with gamers.

I might have exaggerated a bit with the who cares, but really, it is the absolute LEAST important bit of information about an IGP.

[/quote]

I disagree again. Not everyone wants a power sapping, heat blowing tower case on or next to their desk. Like I said, some people game casually and want a blend of form, function, quiet, cool and efficient. I think you're assuming a lot of things about "gamers" when the spectrum is a lot wider than what you think. The fact that the 780G eliminates the need for a discrete card for a huge number of gamers is a big deal. You scoff at IGP performance and seem to be convinced that NO IGP will ever be capable of satisfying a gamer. Yes, there are causal gamers with small monitors. And if you look at the Steam survey numbers, you'll see that those people are the overwhelming majority of computer users.

 

[coolpurplefan]

Originally posted by: deruberhanyok
I just checked and the system is using Catalyst 8.6. I've never seen any "slight delay" when clicking things, though. What are the rest of your system specs and what exactly are you noticing?

Well, maybe in a couple of days I'm going to make a long-a$$ thread about all the things I've tried with my system to diagnose it. The list is getting longer lol. Right now I'm running memtest.

 

[coolpurplefan]

OK, I found the problem. I installed a video card instead of using the on-board video and the gradually changing images while installing UT2004 finally stopped being blocky. Someone suggested that it was the fact that the memory the on-board video uses is slower than the type of memory used in video cards.

I had higher scores with this setup and the video card than I did with the same video card on another machine. As a matter of fact, I had the top score compared to other similar systems in 3DMark06. I also had better framerates in UT2004 Assault Convoy than I had with another machine with a single core Athlon 2.4GHz and DDR1 RAM (like 60 to 100 instead of 30 to 50).

Anyway, in regards to the RAM, OCZ had told me to use 5-5-5-15 timings, between 1.8 and 1.9 volts and set it to 400MHz in the BIOS (so I get the 800MHz speed). I have 1.85 volts and the rest same as suggested (motherboard only goes down to 1.85 volts). I ran MemTest for 13 passes or over 3 and a half hours for both sticks of RAM one at a time. There were no errors.

I can play 1080p Quicktime movie trailers with the on-board video. And I can also play UT2004. However, the fact that I got 1200 in 3DMark06 compared to 12 other systems that had a maximum of over 2100 gives me the impression the IGP is not working properly. When I tried my X1650XT in that machine and played UT2004 and BF2, it crashed in 5 minutes compared to about 25 minutes in my other machine. (I read setting 4x instead of 8x and putting fastwrite to off solves the crashing problem with the X1650XT although I haven't tried it yet. Maybe I need to find a way to reduce the bandwidth or whatever.)

I tried the drivers that came with the DVD for the motherboard, the Asus web site drivers and the AMD web site drivers with the on-board HD3200.

I'm wondering if anyone can tell me how to disable on-board video to see if that had any impact.

One thing I'm considering right now is looking at all the various settings for the Southbridge speed and Hypertransport speed etc. If the RAM was incorrectly autodetected at 200MHz instead of 400MHz, then maybe something else was incorrectly set.

 

[deruberhanyok]

You can disable the onboard video by installing a video card. Since your add-in card is an ATI one you may also have to go into the BIOS and disable surroundview.

 

[coolpurplefan]

For those reading this thread in the future, I've now come to the conclusion that for better HD video, you need either a seperate video card OR if the motherboard has integrated video, then it would be better if that motherboard had sideport memory.

 

[coolpurplefan]

Originally posted by: coolpurplefan
For those reading this thread in the future, I've now come to the conclusion that for better HD video, you need either a seperate video card OR if the motherboard has integrated video, then it would be better if that motherboard had sideport memory.

I can't believe I'm quoting my own message. Anyway, I just read on the AVSforum that even integrated video with the 790 chipset AND SidePort memory still has lag (and it disappears with a video card). BTW, I ordered an HD4670.

 

[renethx]

Originally posted by: coolpurplefan
For those reading this thread in the future, I've now come to the conclusion that for better HD video, you need either a seperate video card OR if the motherboard has integrated video, then it would be better if that motherboard had sideport memory.

Do you use Athlon X2 or Phenom X3/X4?

 

[AmdInside]

Originally posted by: coolpurplefan

Originally posted by: coolpurplefan
For those reading this thread in the future, I've now come to the conclusion that for better HD video, you need either a seperate video card OR if the motherboard has integrated video, then it would be better if that motherboard had sideport memory.

I can't believe I'm quoting my own message. Anyway, I just read on the AVSforum that even integrated video with the 790 chipset AND SidePort memory still has lag (and it disappears with a video card). BTW, I ordered an HD4670.

I have an nForce 8300 and don't get any lag. I use my HTPC for Blu-ray playback and VMC playback of HD tv shows from my OTA ATSC TV tuner. The key for me was disabling C7Q for my Athlon 64 X2 5000+ processor.

 

[FireTech]

Intel G45 roundup: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuch...ts/showdoc.aspx?i=3417