7970 Lightning now available

[Grooveriding]

Ill give it the benefit of the doubt. It should be priced at $549. My reason being that it has 3gb of VRAM and a 384bit bus. This thing will be a multi-monitor performing monster with xfire.

Not sure how much difference the extra 1GB of VRAM on the 7970 will make over the 680. The big bus/memory bandwidth of the 7970 does open up some scenarios on certain games that give it a large advantage over a GTX680.

While Crysis was a strong game for the GTX 580, the same cannot be said of the GTX 680. NVIDIA is off to a very poor start here, with the Radeon HD 7970 easily outperforming the GTX 680, and even the 7950 is tied or nearly tied with the GTX 680 depending on the resolution.... Given the large gap in theoretical performance between the GTX 680 and GTX 580, as it turns out we’ve run into one of the few scenarios where the GTX 680 doesn’t improve on the GTX 580: memory bandwidth...

Actually after the finding the review for those graphs Balla posted, there are also wins for the stock MSI Lightning 7970 over the GTX 680 he left out.

Metro 2034:Last Light is a big triple AAA title coming out this year, so this will be an advantage for the 7970 when the game drops and for someone looking to play 2033.

Also here in DX:HR:

Also looking at the BF3 graph he posted the 7970 had a small edge at 1600P which would be relevant for me.

If the MSI Lightning was $499 I would return my 680s and take a pair of them no doubt. The 680 has better performance than the Lightning 7970 at stock if you average it out across a large number of games. But I would see a clear advantage for the 7970 Lightning at the same price point.


a.) Is an amazingly well built card with an excellent cooler, a robust PCB with quality components and a gross amount of power phases. The card is designed for enthusiasts to overclock, push voltage through and achieve big results on.

b.) The 7970 scales better with clockspeed increases showing a 1:1 ratio of clockspeed increase to FPS increase 7970 with a 30% overclock gets 30% more performance while the 680 does not a 30% overclock on the 680 nets 18% more performance On a card like the 7970 Lightning built to push the GPU as far as possible, this becomes very relevant.

c.) Has what is arguably the best custom air cooler on the market, that is not just quiet but very effective at keeping the card cool even with extra voltage and overclocking


The problem with the card is the price. It just appeals to me more as an enthusiast to have this card, but not for this price with the 680 @ $500 offering enough of a better value to turn me off the 7970 Lightning @ $600.

At $500 I would jump ship. The current state of the 680 in reference form is underwhelming and the poor overclock scaling is something to take note of as this is not something that relates to drivers. The card is not going to scale as well as Fermi did with high overclocks, so for me the jury is out on how much benefit non-reference 680s will be unless they can get some really disgusting overclocks.

 

[blackened23]

You seem to have forgotten these:

I'm not saying the 7970 is faster. But anyway, the lightning has a relatively mild overclock (IMO of course) by default. In any case the cards need to be cheaper, otherwise the 680 is a better buy. No argument here, the cards need to be cheaper.

I can also say that 7970oc xfire is also faster in all of the crysis games at 2560 resolution compared to 680 sli, but that may be due to driver immaturity and such. Card was just released. Otherwise the 680 sli is faster in other games like the ones you cited, and skyrim. They go back and forth a lot when comparing max oc 680 sli to max oc 7970 xfire.

Please don't call out other members
-ViRGE

 

[chimaxi83]

Awesome card, but needs to be cheaper. It was clocked at 1070 and produced those numbers, I'm sure that for those of us on water it can be pushed to ~1300MHz. What was the 680 turboing to?

Also, how many of you guys would be crying sad green tears of unfairness if it was the AMD card that had turbo and self overclocking? Just wondering.

 

[Lepton87]

If the MSI Lightning was $499 I would return my 680s and take a pair of them no doubt. The 680 has better performance than the Lightning 7970 at stock if you average it out across a large number of games. But I would see a clear advantage for the 7970 Lightning at the same price point

no, MSI 7970 is not slower on avarage, I analysed all performance summaries I could find on the net. Make your own conclusions:
I assumed that MSI Lighting is 12% faster than stock 7970 on average, which is the number that reviewers found.
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/g...stung_mit_aaaf

According to these slides this card would be 2% faster at 1920 and 10% faster at 2560x1600 with AA.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/N...TX_680/27.html

tpu results are similar 4% faster at 1080p and 7% faster at 2560.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...k,3161-19.html

according to tomshardware it would be 4% slower at 1080p. toms didn't provide 2560 summaries as it's a poor site.

 

[SolMiester]

Yes, I know. It was just to show that it proves nothing. I relied on performance summaries to compare the performance of those cards and not by comparing some cherrypicked games.



Yes and batman is such a great game with simply stunning visuals that sets new trends how DX11 should be used to achieve super high quality graphics with smooth performance

However Batman has playable FPS for both cards, DueX, anything can play, Metro none with those settings?!

Your point being....?

 

[SolMiester]

Awesome card, but needs to be cheaper. It was clocked at 1070 and produced those numbers, I'm sure that for those of us on water it can be pushed to ~1300MHz. What was the 680 turboing to?

Also, how many of you guys would be crying sad green tears of unfairness if it was the AMD card that had turbo and self overclocking? Just wondering.

If stock, the cards turbo an extra 50Mhz...not really something to get upset about...

 

[Lepton87]

However Batman has playable FPS for both cards, DueX, anything can play, Metro none with those settings?!

Your point being....?

Right, 39fps or 32fps is really playable in Batman So, Metro is the most demanding game where you really need all the performance you can get. If you lower a setting or two 7970 can easily offer way superior game experience so can GTX680 in batman. I don't know why you dismiss metro and not Batman.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Balla, I see you've taken the RussianSensation class on scouring the web for 3 benchmarks out of 20 to support your argument while ignoring the benchmarks that don't favor you. Good work bro

Actually quite the opposite, I quickly looked for a couple titles that weren't awful and posted those benches.

Way to miss the fact that Deus has been totally unplayable on 7 series cards, as has The Witcher 2 despite it's "avg" fps.

Unless Last Light uses the same engine without any changes I wouldn't bank on AMD too much, it took their driver team 10 months to finally get the proper performance out of their 6970 in Metro 2033.

Ironic though since someone already posted those exact same benchmarks ^_^

They like you failed to mention the 20 fps drops the 7970 has had in the same benchmark since it paper launched in 2012.

The fact is for $100 extra this card is worse than the reference card. Also the few reviews of them, like [H] show a card with no additional OC headroom over reference. Unless you're doing LN2, Lightning seems like even more of a waste of money than the $550 reference card.

 

[SolMiester]

Right, 39fps or 32fps is really playable in Batman So, Metro is the most demanding game where you really need all the performance you can get. If you lower a setting or two 7970 can easily offer way superior game experience so can GTX680 in batman. I don't know why you dismiss metro and not Batman.

Batman is payable 1080, not so Metro.....that is the reason I dismissed it!

 

[blackened23]

Actually quite the opposite, I quickly looked for a couple titles that weren't awful and posted those benches.

Way to miss the fact that Deus has been totally unplayable on 7 series cards, as has The Witcher 2 despite it's "avg" fps.

Unless Last Light uses the same engine without any changes I wouldn't bank on AMD too much, it took their driver team 10 months to finally get the proper performance out of their 6970 in Metro 2033.

Ironic though since someone already posted those exact same benchmarks ^_^

They like you failed to mention the 20 fps drops the 7970 has had in the same benchmark since it paper launched in 2012.

The fact is for $100 extra this card is worse than the reference card. Also the few reviews of them, like [H] show a card with no additional OC headroom over reference. Unless you're doing LN2, Lightning seems like even more of a waste of money than the $550 reference card.

Witcher 2:

I'm afraid there's no reason for you get upset balla, I gave my money to the green team. Despite what you say, comparing max oc 790 to max oc 680, the 2 setups do trade blows. 680 faster in some 7970 faster in others. 7970 oc xfire wins in metro 2033, all crysis titles, alan wake, witcher 2 while the 680 wins big in Hawx 2, skyrim, (very slight lead - 3-4 fps) in bf3. I play at 2560 resolution with everything turned up (except ubersampling) Anyway, we both agree that the cards need to be about 100$ lower, no need to yell at me about that.

As far as overclocking the msi lightning? Weird. Thats hard to believe given the quality of MSI lightnings over the years, i'd like to test one out but 600$ isn't a good price for entry At the very least it is signifigantly quieter and cooler than reference.

 

[Bobisuruncle54]

Yes, I know. It was just to show that it proves nothing. I relied on performance summaries to compare the performance of those cards and not by comparing some cherrypicked games.



Yes and batman is such a great game with simply stunning visuals that sets new trends how DX11 should be used to achieve super high quality graphics with smooth performance

It's well known that balla fails to be objective with his posts, cherry picking information and using language that gives the impression that the performance difference is larger than it actually is - "by a lot" etc etc.

Yes there's no doubt that the GTX 680 is better stock, but a heavily overclocked 7970 would still be a justifiable purchase. Having said that the Lightning is overpriced for what it is. This is of course ignoring the price : performance ratio of the 28nm compared to the last 2 40nm generations.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

I'm raging hard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaPYEOUH7LE

8:02

 

[5150Joker]

Way to cherrypick benchmarks, disgusting. Either paste everything or just the summaries or nothing at all.


See what I did there?

Yeah my apologies, next time I'll post all of them and flood the forum with benchmarks I fond non relevant.

Deus is unplayable with the 7970 due to AMD's driver problems dropping to 20 fps all the time, and Metro 2033 is an unoptimized 2010 title (neither card would be considered playable by most even at 1080p), kind of like using Crysis only without the devoted fanbase or the terrible frame rates.

I guess posting 2/3 of the top current titles and one Gaming Evolved title straight out of the AMD PR campaign is "cherry picking" though, my bad.

LOL so true. For benchmarking, there should obviously be a lot more weight towards modern releases + titles that have high replayability (e.g. BF3). Metro is an outdated title, let it die along with Crysis benchmarks.

 

[Lepton87]

Batman is payable 1080, not so Metro.....that is the reason I dismissed it!

You know you can turn some settings down, right? It's not like you can't make metro playable at all. So your reasoning is just weird. I always turn settings down until I get more than 60 on average and few to no dips below that, so should I dismiss every benchmark that doesn't get me there?

 

[blackened23]

I'm raging hard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaPYEOUH7LE

8:02

That 9:20 flickering must be a pain in the neck! //////// Also the 7970 benched faster in the Batman: ac test than the 680 in that link. Sounds like he did something wrong....680 should be faster. On my system Batman: AC is a good bit faster on the 680 sli.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

That 9:20 flickering must be a pain in the neck! //////// Also the 7970 benched faster in the Batman: ac test than the 680 in that link. Sounds like he did something wrong....680 should be faster. On my system Batman: AC is a good bit faster on the 680 sli.

Yeah when he overclocked it it was gone!

It's part of the deception I've laid out here to fool everyone.

Maybe he used PhysX like HardwareHeaven?

 

[notty22]

Awesome card, but needs to be cheaper. It was clocked at 1070 and produced those numbers, I'm sure that for those of us on water it can be pushed to ~1300MHz. What was the 680 turboing to?

Also, how many of you guys would be crying sad green tears of unfairness if it was the AMD card that had turbo and self overclocking? Just wondering.

LOL, you can't be serious ? You must notice how noise/ TDP / are no longer being mentioned ? That's because the stock gtx 680 is better in every metric , even the custom 7970's. That allows them this earth shattering turbo boost , while still running quieter/ more efficiently (that's consuming less power) than anything AMD has.
This whole efficiency thing, used to be the only redemption a slower card had. Now that's out the window. Let's attack innovation.

 

[Grooveriding]

The problem with your entire post is one I consistently see from many of your posts. It's all opinion, no actual facts or evidence. Here you basicaly have created a bunch of anecdotes about the 7970 experience without owning one in the face of someone who has.

Actually quite the opposite, I quickly looked for a couple titles that weren't awful and posted those benches.

Really ? So now if you personally happen to not enjoy a game, a benchmark of it is worthless based on your own subjective preference of what games are and are not fun ?

Way to miss the fact that Deus has been totally unplayable on 7 series cards, as has The Witcher 2 despite it's "avg" fps.

They like you failed to mention the 20 fps drops the 7970 has had in the same benchmark since it paper launched in 2012.

Again looks like a total creation to me. No 20fps minimums here.

Looks like a total fabrication to me.

Unless Last Light uses the same engine without any changes I wouldn't bank on AMD too much,

It is : http://www.nowgamer.com/features/1073155/metro_last_light_interview.html

We’ve seen snippets of Metro: Last Light footage behind closed doors at both E3 and Gamescom. The visual quality is outstanding. Can you give us an insight into what tech is running behind the scenes?

DS: Well, the tech is still the original engine running from the first game, which we continue to improve and optimise.

What is interesting is that Metro 2033 and the sequel are TWIMTBP titles with huge nvidia involvement, but 2033 performs better on the 7970. I think it may relate to the same performance lead we see in Crysis & Warhead the 7970 has over the 680 in stressing the hardware in a similar manner.

it took their driver team 10 months to finally get the proper performance out of their 6970 in Metro 2033.

Source ?

The fact is for $100 extra this card is worse than the reference card. Also the few reviews of them, like [H] show a card with no additional OC headroom over reference. Unless you're doing LN2, Lightning seems like even more of a waste of money than the $550 reference card.

Honestly it's just hard to take your posts seriously when they are so easily picked apart and lacking in any foundation, and at times, plain outright false. This is kind of compounded by the time you spent on this forum lampooning the 7970 when it was king of the hill over its price/perf.

Yet here we are now with the 680 offering what is the worst performance increase in a new flagship on a new node nvidia has ever delivered, ever.

Less of an increase than the 7970 gave over the 6970.

And yet all the expectations and negative reaction you had related to the 7970 launch and your expectations of perf/price improvement on a new node are now silent.

Just adding this to the discussion because with posts like I've quoted above, that amount to complete subjective opinion and some made up assertions, it leaves me thinking you just prefer nvidia over AMD for reasons other than factual ones.

 

[SolMiester]

LOL, comparing a 36% v 41% performance improvement over last gen......clutching at straws much?
So much hair splitting over subjective opinions....this forum truly is borked!

Oh, just realised that this 41% perf increase also cost around 50% (sure someone will correct me if not) more than the last flagship where the NV 36% perf increase is same price as last flagship?

Anyone got 6970 launch pricing?

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Any other slander or name calling can be done via pm's between me and the guy who looks for issues while never enjoying any hardware and is the only person according to google search to ever manage to kill a 480 via vrms.

7970 wasn't enough, but the slanderer of his own hardware managed to pull out a 680 purchase x2 while being the white knight of the 7970 in every thread.

I'm sure in some other world this logic makes sense.

 

[chimaxi83]

LOL, you can't be serious ? You must notice how noise/ TDP / are no longer being mentioned ? That's because the stock gtx 680 is better in every metric , even the custom 7970's. That allows them this earth shattering turbo boost , while still running quieter/ more efficiently (that's consuming less power) than anything AMD has.
This whole efficiency thing, used to be the only redemption a slower card had. Now that's out the window. Let's attack innovation.

I'm not one of the guys who cares about noise/tdp/heat. I water cool. I care about performance, and that's it.

I have no doubt this card is better than my 7950, especially if this truly was meant to be an x70/x60. Anyway, I'll make my own conclusions, new shiny has arrived

 

[Subyman]

I'm not one of the guys who cares about noise/tdp/heat. I water cool. I care about performance, and that's it.

I have no doubt this card is better than my 7950, especially if this truly was meant to be an x70/x60. Anyway, I'll make my own conclusions, new shiny has arrived

Enjoy! I put mine in last friday and have been loving it. The lightning looks like a decent card, but 600 bucks is too much. The stock 7970's should be 450, this thing should be 499 at best.

 

[Lepton87]

7970 wasn't enough, but the slanderer of his own hardware managed to pull out a 680 purchase x2 while being the white knight of the 7970 in every thread.

I'm sure in some other world this logic makes sense.

Where did he slander GTX680? You must be imaging things.

 

[Grooveriding]

**I got nothing**

Are you stalking my posts or something ? What does my 480 dying have to do with anything ? What did you see that post and make a mental note ?

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=33195714&postcount=66

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Where did he slander GTX680? You must be imaging things.

/yawn

Stop crapping in my forums, Balla
-ViRGE