7th Annual Anandtech Tax Time Thread

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EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
I've got a question about the American Opportunity Credit. I see from the IRS site that it can be claimed for expenses from the "first four years of post-secondary education". So I can take this credit even though my fourth year of post-secondary education is in graduate school, correct? (I completed my undergrad degree in three years).
The IRS will not accept such logic.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,425
8,388
126
because this confused me yesterday, and because it seems to have not been answered in the thread directly, i present the treatment of the "Making Work Pay" credit:

Making Work Pay Credit

You may be able to take this credit if you have earned income from work. Even if your federal income tax withholding was reduced during 2009 because of the credit, you must complete Schedule M (Form 1040A or 1040) and claim the credit on your return to benefit from it. You cannot take the credit if your modified adjusted gross income (AGI) is $95,000 ($190,000 if married fiing jointly) or more, you are a nonresident alien, or you can be claimed as a dependent on someone else's return.

which makes sense, because otherwise you'd be paying back that withholding decrease.
 

newnameman

Platinum Member
Nov 20, 2002
2,219
0
0
The IRS will not accept such logic.

Well how about this IRS example from Pub 970:
Example 2. After taking classes at College V on a
part-time basis for a few years, Shelly became a full-time
student for the 2009 spring semester. College V classified
Shelly as a second-semester senior (fourth year) for the
2009 spring semester and as a first-semester graduate
student (fifth year) for the 2009 fall semester. Because
College V did not classify Shelly as having completed the
first 4 years of postsecondary education as of the begin-
ning of 2009, Shelly is an eligible student for tax year 2009.
Therefore, the qualified education expenses paid for the
2009 spring semester and the 2009 fall semester are taken
into account in calculating any American opportunity credit
for 2009.
This seems to parallel my situation, since I was a first-semester graduate student for the 2009 fall semester, and I had not completed my undergrad degree as of the beginning of 2009. So this seems to indicate I can take the credit?
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
I've got a question about the American Opportunity Credit. I see from the IRS site that it can be claimed for expenses from the "first four years of post-secondary education". So I can take this credit even though my fourth year of post-secondary education is in graduate school, correct? (I completed my undergrad degree in three years).
The IRS will not accept such logic.

Well how about this IRS example from Pub 970:
Example 2. After taking classes at College V on a
part-time basis for a few years, Shelly became a full-time
student for the 2009 spring semester. College V classified
Shelly as a second-semester senior (fourth year) for the
2009 spring semester and as a first-semester graduate
student (fifth year) for the 2009 fall semester. Because
College V did not classify Shelly as having completed the
first 4 years of postsecondary education as of the begin-
ning of 2009, Shelly is an eligible student for tax year 2009.
Therefore, the qualified education expenses paid for the
2009 spring semester and the 2009 fall semester are taken
into account in calculating any American opportunity credit
for 2009.
This seems to parallel my situation, since I was a first-semester graduate student for the 2009 fall semester, and I had not completed my undergrad degree as of the beginning of 2009. So this seems to indicate I can take the credit?

Now you have changed the players in the game.

Previously you had completed your undergrad degree and asked if your grad degree could qualify as year #4. My answer was NO

Now you are looking at splitting the year between grad and undergrad.

The IRS example allows for splitting between grad & undergrad within a calendar year.
The IRS example has nothing about trying to apply year #4 to the grad degree.
 

Cal166

Diamond Member
May 6, 2000
5,081
8
81
Sorry guys, I read 4 pages and gave up trying to find the answers.

SO and I purchased a townhouse in MD, she will be the primary resident of the property due to the fact that I will be living in NY for now. Her name is first in the title then me.

1. We will each pay half of the monthly mortgage. When we do our taxes each separately next year, can we each claim half of the interest paid?
2. Will I need to pay any additional taxes / misc. payments for owning a property in MD and living in NY?
3. Since we are not married, is it $8000 first time buyers or more?

Yes, we will be getting marry in the near future.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
Sorry guys, I read 4 pages and gave up trying to find the answers.

SO and I purchased a townhouse in MD, she will be the primary resident of the property due to the fact that I will be living in NY for now. Her name is first in the title then me.

1. We will each pay half of the monthly mortgage. When we do our taxes each separately next year, can we each claim half of the interest paid?
2. Will I need to pay any additional taxes / misc. payments for owning a property in MD and living in NY?
3. Since we are not married, is it $8000 first time buyers or more?

Yes, we will be getting marry in the near future.

1) Given that both of your names are on the deed; the interest taxes and credit can be split up any way that is most advantageous to you.

2) You can choose to claim MD as your home; pay MD and NY income taxes (however it is broken out) or just pay NY income taxes. NY may not allow you to deduct MD property taxes.

3) The 8K credit assumes
  • That the property is worth 80K.
  • You have not owned a home in the past three years.
  • She has not owned a home in the past three years.
 

Cal166

Diamond Member
May 6, 2000
5,081
8
81
1) Given that both of your names are on the deed; the interest taxes and credit can be split up any way that is most advantageous to you.

2) You can choose to claim MD as your home; pay MD and NY income taxes (however it is broken out) or just pay NY income taxes. NY may not allow you to deduct MD property taxes.

3) The 8K credit assumes
  • That the property is worth 80K.
  • You have not owned a home in the past three years.
  • She has not owned a home in the past three years.


Thanks! for #2, since if I just want to pay NY income taxes, can the property tax/half mortgage deduction goes to my SO and I just get the deduction for paying half the mortgage?
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
19
81
ouch...$989 owed. House was reevaluated for about 50% of what I paid so less taxes...I then did a modification, skipped two mortgage payments and my rate adjusted down.

Not as bad as I thought considering I made about $11k more this year and skipped $5k in payments on the house. I got back about $500-600 last year I think.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
Thanks! for #2, since if I just want to pay NY income taxes, can the property tax/half mortgage deduction goes to my SO and I just get the deduction for paying half the mortgage?

For the Feds, it will make no difference. You both should see for whom it creates the biggest benefit. She could take all the mortgage for all they care.

You will have to see how NY handles their taxes (Ask Skoorb/DrPizza/Hayabusa Rider - It aint pretty)
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
ouch...$989 owed. House was reevaluated for about 50% of what I paid so less taxes...I then did a modification, skipped two mortgage payments and my rate adjusted down.

Not as bad as I thought considering I made about $11k more this year and skipped $5k in payments on the house. I got back about $500-600 last year I think.
The two skipped payments will add up to to least 4 payments on the back end.

Dig for the expenses - I have faith in you.
 

weirdichi

Diamond Member
Sep 19, 2001
4,712
2
76
I'm using Taxact.com free online version and there is no place to enter the rent that I paid for 2009. I got a Certificate of Rent Paid form from my landlord, yet I can't find where I enter that online. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
I'm using Taxact.com free online version and there is no place to enter the rent that I paid for 2009. I got a Certificate of Rent Paid form from my landlord, yet I can't find where I enter that online. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
Federal return does not have anything for rent on the 1040/Schedule A areas

Many states may have a line item for it.
 

alexeikgb

Golden Member
Aug 24, 2004
1,135
0
0
Quick Roth IRA question...
Does a contribution to a Roth IRA via company retirement plan count in the $5,000/year limit?
So if I have my own personal Roth IRA, would the max contribution I can make be $5,000 minus retirement IRA contribution.

Thanks.
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,272
103
106
I purchased some P&G (PG) stock a while back (in 2004). Then, a couple of years ago, when Folgers merged with Smuckers, P&G common stock holders were given the option to exchange some/all/none of their stock for folgers stock, which then converted into 1 share of SJM stock. At the time the valuation was a good deal, so I exercised my option and exchanged some of my stock. Then, in 2009, I sold that stock. I'm having a hard time figuring out what the cost basis for the SJM stock should be.

Here's some more info on the exchange: http://www.streetinsider.com/Merger...f+Folgers+and+J.M.+Smucker+(SJM)/4052459.html

In doing my taxes this year, I just took the cost basis of the original P&G shares purchased in 2004 that were later exchanged as the cost basis (plus fees yada yada yada), but I don't know if that's the correct way of doing it.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
I purchased some P&G (PG) stock a while back (in 2004). Then, a couple of years ago, when Folgers merged with Smuckers, P&G common stock holders were given the option to exchange some/all/none of their stock for folgers stock, which then converted into 1 share of SJM stock. At the time the valuation was a good deal, so I exercised my option and exchanged some of my stock. Then, in 2009, I sold that stock. I'm having a hard time figuring out what the cost basis for the SJM stock should be.

Here's some more info on the exchange: http://www.streetinsider.com/Merger...f+Folgers+and+J.M.+Smucker+(SJM)/4052459.html

In doing my taxes this year, I just took the cost basis of the original P&G shares purchased in 2004 that were later exchanged as the cost basis (plus fees yada yada yada), but I don't know if that's the correct way of doing it.

You need to determine the cost exchange (value) from the P&G to Flogers. Then how many shares of Flogers becamse 1 SJM.
From that point; you have the value of a P&G to SJM.

Now when you sell SJM, you know the equivalent amount of P&J stock and you now have calculated that price.

Or just convert everything to SJM on your paperwork and go from there.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
19
81
This is more a next year question...

I am refinancing to a 2.11&#37; mortgage so my interest deduction goes south. I am looking at having to pay $1400-1600 next year. What can I do to wash this?

My adjusted income is around 86000.

I am reactivating a side business but it's almost 0% in house...my mileage will be a factor, along with some car maintenance but it's really going to be only 5-10% of my total usage...most of it is getting my dog back and forth to dog park My main commute is only 3.5 miles each way.
 

snoopdoug1

Platinum Member
Jan 8, 2002
2,164
0
76
Why was the money taxed? If it was paid as extra income then you may be able to claim it. If it was paid as money for the classes or a reimbursement then not.

It was paid as extra income, and I see it on my W2. Best I can tell, what I need to do is write it off as a business expense. I will write off all of the books + tuition. Sound accurate?
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
19
81
writing it all off will be tricky. As a business expense more so.

How are you applying the funds?

Being you got this as W2 income is great though, it opens the door to the write offs...
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,272
103
106
You need to determine the cost exchange (value) from the P&G to Flogers. Then how many shares of Flogers becamse 1 SJM.
From that point; you have the value of a P&G to SJM.

Now when you sell SJM, you know the equivalent P&J stock and you know that price.

Or just convert everything to SJM onyou paperwork and go from there.

Lets just take round numbers to make it simple:

Lets say I purchased $10k in P&G stock, 100 shares at $100 a piece. Then, 4 years later, those same 100 shares were worth $9k, or $90 a piece. I was able to exchange them for 200 shares of Folgers, and in turn 200 shares of Smuckers. Then, last year, I sold the 200 shares for $11k. Am I correct in reporting the cost basis for the 200 shares of Smuckers as $10k?
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
You need to determine the cost exchange (value) from the P&G to Flogers. Then how many shares of Flogers becamse 1 SJM.
From that point; you have the value of a P&G to SJM.

Now when you sell SJM, you know the equivalent P&J stock and you know that price.

Or just convert everything to SJM onyou paperwork and go from there.

Lets just take round numbers to make it simple:

Lets say I purchased $10k in P&G stock, 100 shares at $100 a piece. Then, 4 years later, those same 100 shares were worth $9k, or $90 a piece. I was able to exchange them for 200 shares of Folgers, and in turn 200 shares of Smuckers. Then, last year, I sold the 200 shares for $11k. Am I correct in reporting the cost basis for the 200 shares of Smuckers as $10k?

Numbers seem good
$100 / share P&G
At a 2 for 1 split that makes the value at $50 /share of Folgers
Then as a 1 to 1 exchange with Smuckers that still keeps the price at $50/ share
 

maddogchen

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2004
8,905
2
76
It seems I overcontributed to my 2008 ROTH by $177. So I guess I have to roll this into my 2009 ROTH contribution. What form do I have to fill out to report this and pay the penalty or tax on it?

Thanks!
 

Xcobra

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2004
3,635
382
126
It seems I overcontributed to my 2008 ROTH by $177. So I guess I have to roll this into my 2009 ROTH contribution. What form do I have to fill out to report this and pay the penalty or tax on it?

Thanks!
HOw do you not know how much you have contributed during the year? Most brokage companies keep track of this for you. They also give you the option of applying the funds either in the current year or in the next as long as its before april 15th. Anyways the form is 5329 where you calculate the penalty.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f5329.pdf
 

maddogchen

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2004
8,905
2
76
HOw do you not know how much you have contributed during the year? Most brokage companies keep track of this for you. They also give you the option of applying the funds either in the current year or in the next as long as its before april 15th. Anyways the form is 5329 where you calculate the penalty.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f5329.pdf

yeah, stupid me, I have two mutual funds in two different brokerages and I added them up wrong somehow.

So...I took form 5329 and went to Part IV for Additional Tax on Excess Contributions to Roth IRAs and I ended up with $0..because its asking me to enter 6% of the smaller of the values and 6% of zero is zero. And since I haven't hit 5000 for 2009, i just said the 177 goes to 2009. Did I make another math error or do I not have to pay any excess tax for my overcontribution for 2008?
 

Xcobra

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2004
3,635
382
126
yeah, stupid me, I have two mutual funds in two different brokerages and I added them up wrong somehow.

So...I took form 5329 and went to Part IV for Additional Tax on Excess Contributions to Roth IRAs and I ended up with $0..because its asking me to enter 6&#37; of the smaller of the values and 6% of zero is zero. And since I haven't hit 5000 for 2009, i just said the 177 goes to 2009. Did I make another math error or do I not have to pay any excess tax for my overcontribution for 2008?
How you end up with zero? Its 6% of your excess contribution. what do you mean you "said the 177 goes to 2009?" Im confused.

EDIT: youre supposed to add PY and CY excess contributions and multiply that by 6%. There shouldn't be a zero penalty if you made excess contributions.
 
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