8600/8500 reviews?

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erwos

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2005
4,778
0
76
It's annoying that the new PureVideo technology is only in the 8600/8500 series. At least they didn't blow it like on the 6-series and leave it out of random cards on random interfaces, I guess.

Just looking at the charts, it seems like the 8800GTS is still the best value for gamers.
 

TanisHalfElven

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2001
3,512
0
76
Originally posted by: Gstanfor
The 7600GT was more than a replacement for your 6800GT and these new cards handily outperform that.

nonsense. 7600gt was barely faster than a 6800gt. these will be about twice as fast as a 6800gt.
 

bigsnyder

Golden Member
Nov 4, 2004
1,568
2
81
About HardOCP's article,

Again, look at the games they used. I think HardOCP has a point. The newer the game, the
chances it will favor the newer chips such as the 8600s. The oblivion benchmarks from this
site and HardOCP demonstrate this. My opinion of this card is changing, but the 8800 320MB
is IMO a better buy considering how small the current price gap is. This will change over time,
but something to consider.

C Snyder
 

golem

Senior member
Oct 6, 2000
838
3
76
The customer who was given good advice will come back and will recommend friends to your dealership because they know you are trustworthy. The customer who you forced into one of your products and who hates every day of it will not only not come back but will trash your product AND YOU.

I don't think this works in the real world too often. If a salesperson regularly recommends products he doesn't sell, he won't or shouldn't be working there much longer. Happy customers that come back for advice w/o ever buying anything aren't really useful to a business unless you charge for advice.
I agree forcing a customer to buy one of your products that doesn't serve their needs is wrong. But I don't see how you're required to steer them to competitor's products. The customer should at least do enough research to know what store they should be at.
 

StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
May 9, 2004
8,443
124
106
Originally posted by: dreddfunk
I'm certainly a little disappointed. I think a key question will be DX10 performance once we can measure that.

Truthfully, I can't keep a little nagging feeling from cropping up that nVidia hasn't shown us their real DX10 midrange plan here. There is just too much of a performance gap between it and the 8800 320. I get the feeling that a 64 shader, 256-bit card is in the works some place, if it isn't already ready to be released to manufacturing.

The overly cynical side of me wonders if we're not seeing nVidia's original, pre-R600-delay, version of the GTS. If I recall correctly, I saw several articles indicating that the GTS was going to have 64 shaders at the very least.

DX10 on 8600GTS is going to be subpar if history is of any indication.
 

yacoub

Golden Member
May 24, 2005
1,991
14
81
Originally posted by: happy medium

Says here the 8600gts is 52% faster in FEAR and 29% faster in Far Cry then the 7600gt.

http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=636&p=3

Edit: 83% faster in Prey and 28% faster in Quake 4 also.

Any reason their review leaves out the 7900GT or 7950GT, or is that just "convenient"?

The question that remains for everyone in the mid-range right now that owns a 7900GS, 7900GT, 7950GT, or equivalent ATi cards is why would they want to spend $250 to buy a card that performs less well in many games, about the same in a few games, and slightly better in one or two games, when they could spend $20-30 more to get an 8800GTS that unquestionably outperforms any of those last-gen cards?
It's a question for which NVidia - even the marketing dept - has no answer, because the 8600GTS is too handicapped. They cut out too many stream processors and too much of the bus bandwidth. 64sp and 256-bit bus would have made it a great card for $225-250.

When $30 buys you three times the stream processors and three times the bus bandwidth, you'd be crazy not to get the 8800GTS (or perhaps wait to see what ATi offers).

NVidia just relinquished their initiative in the mid-range, giving ATi a chance to win that market segment IF they can come out with a mid-range card at the 8600GTS's price range that outperforms it, which honestly shouldn't be hard at all given how weak the 8600GTS's specs are. I say it will be a clear sign as to whether ATi has any competency left at all.
 

Gstanfor

Banned
Oct 19, 1999
3,307
0
0
Originally posted by: bigsnyder
About HardOCP's article,

Again, look at the games they used. I think HardOCP has a point. The newer the game, the
chances it will favor the newer chips such as the 8600s. The oblivion benchmarks from this
site and HardOCP demonstrate this. My opinion of this card is changing, but the 8800 320MB
is IMO a better buy considering how small the current price gap is. This will change over time,
but something to consider.

C Snyder

They aren't the only ones to reach that conclusion. Here is what anandtech said.
While the 8600 GT improves on the performance of its spiritual predecessor the 7600 GT, we don't see significant performance improvement above hardware currently available at the target prices for the new hardware. In NVIDIA's favor, our newest and most shader intensive tests (Oblivion and Rainbow Six: Vegas) paint the 8600 hardware in a more favorable light than older tests that rely less on shader programs and more on texture, z, and color fill rates.

We are planning on looking further into this issue and will be publishing a second article on 8600 GTS/GT performance in the near future using games like S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Supreme Commander, and Company of Heroes. Hopefully these tests will help confirm our conclusion that near future titles that place a heavier emphasis on shader performance will benefit more from G84 based hardware than previous models.
 

yacoub

Golden Member
May 24, 2005
1,991
14
81
What sites SAY is hardly as important as the actual numbers reported in testing.
Sites have to SAY a lot of nice things so they get more cards to review in the future. You should know that by now.

Anyway, NVidia just handed the mid-range initiative to ATi. Now we'll see if ATi is competent enough to take advantage of that and come out with a superior mid-range product. If they can't even after being given this gift of an opportunity, they're hopeless.
 

Wreckage

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
5,529
0
0
Quote from Hardocp front page:
The GeForce 8600 GTS series GPU destroys ATI's current X1950 series for right around $220.

Heh, well if they can bring the price to $200 it looks like a good mid-range card. Whoops ZZF has the GTS for $189 that's actually damn good.


The GeForce 8600 GTS is a traditional hard launch, with retail availability actually before this evaluation was even published. However, the GeForce 8600 GT and the GeForce 8500 GT are not so lucky. They are not going to be available in retail today. You may be able to find a few GeForce 8600 GT cards if you are lucky, but not the GeForce 8500 GT. NVIDIA has decided to change the definition of a hard launch for them.

Booo! They should have done better than this.
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
The large increases are at unplayable settings, unless 40fps average is good to you.

Not to mention i dont play either of those games anymore, their title list is outdated.

The prey numbers are good, however.
 

nemesismk2

Diamond Member
Sep 29, 2001
4,810
5
76
www.ultimatehardware.net
I expected more from the 8600 GTS because it costs from £140 to £160. In comparison you can get a x1950 Pro for £95 to £134 or a Geforce 7900 GS for £110 to £150.

Hope the price of the 8600 GTS falls quickly in the UK because it's performance just isn't good enough!
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
5,535
613
126
I guess the last rumor we got on these cards was true. They consistently lose to last gen cards that are priced similarly, sometimes by big margins. Although I would expect their prices to fall pretty quickly.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
Originally posted by: nemesismk2
I expected more from the 8600 GTS because it costs from £140 to £160. In comparison you can get a x1950 Pro for £95 to £134 or a Geforce 7900 GS for £110 to £150.

Hope the price of the 8600 GTS falls quickly in the UK because it's performance just isn't good enough!

I don't think it'll take much for AMD/ATI to beat the midrange from Nvidia on both price and performance,we should know soon.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: StrangerGuy
Originally posted by: dreddfunk
I'm certainly a little disappointed. I think a key question will be DX10 performance once we can measure that.

Truthfully, I can't keep a little nagging feeling from cropping up that nVidia hasn't shown us their real DX10 midrange plan here. There is just too much of a performance gap between it and the 8800 320. I get the feeling that a 64 shader, 256-bit card is in the works some place, if it isn't already ready to be released to manufacturing.

The overly cynical side of me wonders if we're not seeing nVidia's original, pre-R600-delay, version of the GTS. If I recall correctly, I saw several articles indicating that the GTS was going to have 64 shaders at the very least.

DX10 on 8600GTS is going to be subpar if history is of any indication.

Uh if history is any indication the 8800GTX will also be sub par for a full blow DX10 title.

1st generation of any hardware is really nothing more than a test bed for devs. Knowing that one can make purchasing decisions that wont disappoint. I bought an 8800GTS for the games I play today, not what I am going to be playing 2 years from now.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: yacoub
Originally posted by: happy medium

Says here the 8600gts is 52% faster in FEAR and 29% faster in Far Cry then the 7600gt.

http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=636&p=3

Edit: 83% faster in Prey and 28% faster in Quake 4 also.

Any reason their review leaves out the 7900GT or 7950GT, or is that just "convenient"?

The question that remains for everyone in the mid-range right now that owns a 7900GS, 7900GT, 7950GT, or equivalent ATi cards is why would they want to spend $250 to buy a card that performs less well in many games, about the same in a few games, and slightly better in one or two games, when they could spend $20-30 more to get an 8800GTS that unquestionably outperforms any of those last-gen cards?
It's a question for which NVidia - even the marketing dept - has no answer, because the 8600GTS is too handicapped. They cut out too many stream processors and too much of the bus bandwidth. 64sp and 256-bit bus would have made it a great card for $225-250.

When $30 buys you three times the stream processors and three times the bus bandwidth, you'd be crazy not to get the 8800GTS (or perhaps wait to see what ATi offers).

NVidia just relinquished their initiative in the mid-range, giving ATi a chance to win that market segment IF they can come out with a mid-range card at the 8600GTS's price range that outperforms it, which honestly shouldn't be hard at all given how weak the 8600GTS's specs are. I say it will be a clear sign as to whether ATi has any competency left at all.


I am trying to figure out why anybody would expect a mid ranged card to be a worthy upgrade from the previous generations highend card? Why would anybody owning a 7900GT and up consider anything less than an 8800 for an upgrade?

When I buy a replacement for my 8800GTS, I can assure you it wont be for a 200 dollar mid range card.


 

bwall04

Member
Jun 22, 2004
54
0
0
Legit Review article...tons of cards tested against it.
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/486/1/

For the hardocp review and people that like the 8600 series...So if there are no DX 10 games out now why would I buy a card with mediocre performance in the games that I play right now when the performance in DX 10 is unknown and we will likely have new hardware between now and then?
 

crazydingo

Golden Member
May 15, 2005
1,134
0
0
128b killed it, really. To the ones who kept preaching that it'll be faster than a 7900GTX, sweet dreams! :laugh:
 
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