8800 GT = Biggest paper launch of 2007???

[aka1nas]

Originally posted by: CP5670
I think the term "vapor launch" is more appropriate here.

My pair of GTs feel pretty solid.

 

[Syntax Error]

Originally posted by: CP5670
I think the term "vapor launch" is more appropriate here.

If we got the damn cards, then it wouldn't be a "vapor launch", now would it?

 

[pm]

I bought mine at Best Buy last week and there were several more on the shelf. I was at a mall in another city over the weekend and saw several at the Best Buy there as well. It's sold out at a lot of places, but it's still possible to buy it. If I can get my hands on one by just driving over to my local big box store, then it's far from a paper launch or whatever else you want to call it. Several of my co-workers have 8800GT's as well. They aren't that hard to get if you are willing to spend around $300 and are willing to make some phone calls.

 

[swtethan]

Originally posted by: aka1nas

Originally posted by: CP5670
I think the term "vapor launch" is more appropriate here.

My pair of GTs feel pretty solid.

mine are gooey with ooze!

 

[Hauk]

I have an 8800 GT KO arriving tomorrow. I pulled the trigger mainly because it was in stock, but also thinking that I could step-up after the dust settles with GTS launch.

Now I'm weighing two options, one is return it unopened and get a full credit less shipping. If I did this I'd hold out for the GTS. Second option is to open it and use it, and step-up when able.

Reason I'm thinking of returning is I don't want to be at the mercy of step-up. Come December 3rd I can pull the trigger on the best deal and not be limited to EVGA website or step-up. Plus, who knows when step-up will be available. The GT would work, but I can do without it.

What factors should I be thinking about and what would you do? Thx...

 

[smthmlk]

paper launch? Far too many people have these cards in their hands for this to be called a paper launch.

This card's performance for its price is insane, and it's price-point is low enough that a lot of non-hardcore enthusiasts are looking to get one, so it's no wonder the demand for it is through the roof. This is the card to have going into the Holiday shopping season until something better comes along, and prices & availability are going to reflect that.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: Azn
50,000 cards to the entire world just isn't enough.

Not sure if I believe that number.......

 

[Snooper]

I'm not questioning the cards performance one bit.

But take EVGA for example. How long did they have the cards in stock at there OWN web site? Less than a week? And they have not been in stock since then.

I've seen this same scenario play out many times in the past where a product is available at the launch date in multiple locations, but in VERY limited numbers and those numbers are NOT refreshed for a long time. That's what I'm referring to when I say "paper launch". If there is a more correct term, feel free to correct me.

I do wish I knew how many had been sold to date. It's kind of hard to talk about the "high demand" on boards like this. You have to admit, folks that pay this much attention to computer hardware are a TINY minority of people that actually BUY computer hardware. We just buy a long more per capita and usually spend a lot MORE than your average bloc.

Any other candidates for biggest paper launch of the year?

 

[bryanW1995]

you would think that it would be 8900gts. of course, 8800gt should have been 8900gt, too, but that didn't happen.

It's funny, I was all excited to be able to buy a "2950xt" and was actually mad when they changed the name to 3870, but it makes sense b/c the card is better in every way: noise/power/heat/perf/price. 8800gt is an upgrade over gts in every category except noise, but they give it a "lower" designation. weird.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky
Yeah, but the card isn't worth 300.

Can you buy anything else for that price that will beat it?

It's worth 300 if people are paying that for them.

That said, you can get the BFG OC version for 249 from Best Buy, so that's not quite 300.

 

[aka1nas]

Originally posted by: Snooper
I'm not questioning the cards performance one bit.

But take EVGA for example. How long did they have the cards in stock at there OWN web site? Less than a week? And they have not been in stock since then.

I've seen this same scenario play out many times in the past where a product is available at the launch date in multiple locations, but in VERY limited numbers and those numbers are NOT refreshed for a long time. That's what I'm referring to when I say "paper launch". If there is a more correct term, feel free to correct me.

I do wish I knew how many had been sold to date. It's kind of hard to talk about the "high demand" on boards like this. You have to admit, folks that pay this much attention to computer hardware are a TINY minority of people that actually BUY computer hardware. We just buy a long more per capita and usually spend a lot MORE than your average bloc.

Any other candidates for biggest paper launch of the year?

The cards were available on their site throughout almost all of the first week. They have been in and out since then. You're making a pretty big deal of it when the cards only came out about 2 weeks ago.

 

[tuteja1986]

Well reason why only 50K were made because Nvidia looses money on each G92 gpu they sell. Its was done to destroy ATI any hope of good RV670 launch otherwise Nvidia would have produced 250K G92 processor like ATI did with its RV670 core.

 

[pm]

And exactly what factual data have you used to conclude they are losing money on G92s? How much do you think it costs to make a chip anyway?

A G92 is about 330mm^2, a TSMC wafer costs about $2k (not counting volume discounts). A 330mm^2 die on a 300mm wafer gets you about 250 die per wafer (ish... I made a bunch of quick guesses on reticle-to-die spacing the reticle layout and the exclusion ring... and was conservative). It's a big die, but lets give them 80% yield - so that's 200 die per wafer. At $2000 per wafer, this is $10 per die. Throw in a couple of dollars for the package, a few more dollars for testing and you would have a hard time getting above $15 per GPU. And I bet they are under $10 because a lot of my guesses are conservative (like, I bet they pay less than $2k per wafer for a start).

At my conservative estimate of $15 per GPU, you really think that they are selling them at a loss on a $300 video card? Seriously? Not only do I have a hard time believing for a minute that they are not making good money on G92's, but I bet they are getting more than 50% gross margins on them.

 

[Matt2]

They shouldnt be losing money on a 65nm GPU. If they are then they are having some serious yield issues.

 

[Capt Caveman]

OP, paper launch this - http://i20.photobucket.com/alb...apt_Caveman/8800GT.jpg

 

[Demoth]

Originally posted by: pm
And exactly what factual data have you used to conclude they are losing money on G92s? How much do you think it costs to make a chip anyway?

A G92 is about 330mm^2, a TSMC wafer costs about $2k (not counting volume discounts). A 330mm^2 die on a 300mm wafer gets you about 250 die per wafer (ish... I made a bunch of quick guesses on reticle-to-die spacing the reticle layout and the exclusion ring... and was conservative). It's a big die, but lets give them 80% yield - so that's 200 die per wafer. At $2000 per wafer, this is $10 per die. Throw in a couple of dollars for the package, a few more dollars for testing and you would have a hard time getting above $15 per GPU. And I bet they are under $10 because a lot of my guesses are conservative (like, I bet they pay less than $2k per wafer for a start).

At my conservative estimate of $15 per GPU, you really think that they are selling them at a loss on a $300 video card? Seriously? Not only do I have a hard time believing for a minute that they are not making good money on G92's, but I bet they are getting more than 50% gross margins on them.

I agree with most of this, however, 512 megs of high speed DDR3 is still probably costing them $50. Probably true, they could crank out a huge number of 8800GTs and sell them for $99 a pop and still cover all R&D costs while turning a profit.

As far as the 8800GT being a limited launch, keep in mind the revised 8800GTS will be a faster card and should retail for about where the over inflated price of the GT is right now. There may be some planning to saturate the $300 price point while the GT drops back down to MSRP with greatly less demand. The 8800GT was a hasty tactic to counter the 38XX and it worked. Many people are holding off for the 8800GT to drop back down in price rather then pull the trigger on a 38XX.

ATI just did the same with the 2900Pro but it was an all around feeble counter.

 

[aka1nas]

It's not costing Nvidia anything for the RAM, as they don't build the actual cards.

 

[Demoth]

Originally posted by: aka1nas
It's not costing Nvidia anything for the RAM, as they don't build the actual cards.

Nvidia dosen't build the cards, but they pretty much control their manufacturers when it comes to card specs and pricing. RAM cost is the biggest chunk of overall card pricing that all manufacturers need to stay within to remain competetive. Nvidia and ATI's overall bottom line is greatly effected by RAM costs and the current extreme cost of DDR4, even though they don't purchase the RAM themselves for the most part. If it wasn't for the cost factor, 1 gig of DDR4 on current card tech would be more useful then overkill at high res.

 

[Golgatha]

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky
Yeah, but the card isn't worth 300.

Yes it is.

 

[bryanW1995]

by today's standards the card is definitely worth $300. Unfortunately, 8800gt/3870/etc are all going to be very poor at dx10 games going forward. these are stopgap cards that look good b/c they're better than what came before them. Let's look back next nov and see how great ANY of these 8800/2900/3870/etc cards look.

 

[Deleted member 4644]

Considering I have two 8800GTs in my hand right now, no, it's not a paper launch.

 

[JBT]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
OP, paper launch this - http://i20.photobucket.com/alb...apt_Caveman/8800GT.jpg

w00t I could have the same exact pic minus one of the S's on the video card box!

 

[j0j081]

my local Best Buy had 8800gts sitting in the overstock section so paper launch that.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

I walked into Best Buy on Sunday and walked out with a BFC OC 512 8800GT for $220 plus tax. There was still another one on the shelf, and who knows how many back in the storeroom?

Paper launch that!

Expand your horizon beyond the NewEggs and ZipZoomFlys, and you might be surprised.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
Well reason why only 50K were made because Nvidia looses money on each G92 gpu they sell. Its was done to destroy ATI any hope of good RV670 launch otherwise Nvidia would have produced 250K G92 processor like ATI did with its RV670 core.

Give me a break. The chip is on a smaller die process. If they can sell a 8800GTS 320 for profit, this thing is even better. I bet that chip costs Nvidia 35 bucks to make. They sell it for 90 bucks and the OEM tacks on their costs + margins to bring it to ~250-300 bucks.