8800 GT overkill for this 2005 build ?

[xstar]

Hi all,

This is my current rig:
-AMD Athlon64 3200+ (2 GHz) OC to 2.4 GHz with Scythe KAMA HSF
-ABIT AN8 Ultra nForce 4 Ultra Socket 939
-2x512 MB Geil DDR400 in Dual channel @ stock 400 MHz (set at 333 in BIOS)
-Gigabyte NX66128-DP2 GeForce 6600 128 MB 450/1000 @ 510/1130 (more about this one later...)
-LG 1932P 19'' LCD 1280x1024 @ 60 Hz
-Samsung SP2504C 250 GB SATA 3Gb/s 7200 RPM 8 MB buffer NCQ
-Samsung SP1213N 120 GB ATA133 7200 RPM 8 MB buffer
-Creative Audigy2 ZS

+ other stuff. PSU intentionally ommited, to be replaced anyway. Running XP SP2 for now, but will probably go dual booting with Vista 32 bit soon (this rig got a 4.5 score in Vista and ran it pretty good, quite fast actually, but then again, it was a clean install, without AV, firewall and all the rest).

Up until now, this rig was both an HTPC AND a gaming rig, being pretty good at both, given the tight budget and the timeframe of the build (August 2005).

As a HTPC, the ABIT MB, with its uGuru BIOS & Windows software, allows for a very quiet operation despite the total of 6 fans, all - including PSU & video card with aftermarket fans connected to the MB fan headers - being fully monitored & controlled via uGuru (undervolted during idling & normal operation, running up to full 12 V RPM depending on load & temps).

As a gaming rig, the catch is the fact that the apparent vanilla GeForce 6600 from Gigabyte is in fact an underclocked 6600 GT, running the same graphics core at 450 MHz as opposed to the 500 MHz on the GT, while the VRAM is the same Samsung GDDR3 2ns 128 GB @ 1000 MHz (2x500) as on the GT. I am still quite proud of being able to snatch this particular "GT" for 35 bucks less than a "real" GT ;-) As mentioned, this card is now @ 510 MHz core / 1130 MHz VRAM (should get higher, but not with the current cooling).

I said "up until now" because this rig handled pretty much all games thrown at it in the first year and a half with max settings at first, then with some on medium and so on. It even played FarCry on max with HDR & 8xAF in 1024x768 on my old CRT! I skipped Bioshock, STALKER & some newer titles (as in not even trying to run them), with the last title played being Half-Life 2 Ep. 2 (no HDR here though, even if Lost Coast was playable with it turned on).

And then it came Crysis SP DEMO. Let's just say that it would be "playable" - and even with some settings on Medium or High - only if 800x600 would qualify as such on a 1280x1024 LCD panel. Well, at least I saw, @ a couple of FPS ;-) what it would look like with all settings on High (DX9 mode). Pretty badass !

Damn, this post got this long and I didn't even get to asking you guys for an opinion on my current dilemma. Anyway, here is the thing: I would love to play Crysis (and those other recent titles I missed) at max settings on a new rig, but this is not possible ATM, for two reasons: tight budget (again) and non-existing hardware powerfull enough to run Crysis in DX10 mode, all settings Very High. So the new rig option is gonna have to wait (I think Nehalem with whatever graphics cards available then should do the trick). Thus, I only have one shot left: the 8800 GT. True, even with the high end quads and high performance memory in 4 Gigs configurations, the 8800 GT only pulls 35 FPS @ 1280x1024 (my gaming resolution) in DX9 with High settings in Crysis. But then again, the real bottleneck seems to be the video card, not the CPU or system memory. I know the final version of the game may show some improvement over the demo in this regard, but still, I would like to know your opinion: is my current configuration going to be a major bottleneck for a 8800 GT at 1280x1024? Do you guys think I will be able to reach those 35 FPS, or at least 30, in Crysis DX9 all High with this card in my current system (a new PSU with PCIe connector would also be needed). Would this upgrade be worth 300 bucks now (200-250 for the 8800 GT + the rest on a decent PSU - I'm thinking the likes of Corsair 450 VX), or should I wait 1 more year and build a new rig around Christmas 2008? I'm guessing if it is enough to play Crysis on High, it would also play upcoming titles like NFS ProStreet, BlackSite Area 51 etc. with medium to high image quality. Also, the added noise is another factor to consider; I will have to find a card that will either allow speed control for the fan via own driver/software, or - like I do now - connect its fan to a motherboard fan header.

Well, this is it. I'm sorry it ended up such a long post. Can't wait to hear your opinions on this.

Thanks.

P.S. I do not intend to try upgrading other components in this rig also, such as CPU or memory. Being on S939, it would cost me more than a new system at this point :-(

 

[ChilliConCarnage]

I think it's too early to tell for certain how the upgrade would work for you without waiting for the full game to come out.

I can say that according to what I've read so far about it, your system will be a major bottleneck and make it not worth the upgrade.

BUT - I saw another thread going on here though about a cheap S939 Athlon 64 X2 4200 proc available right now at NewEgg for around $59. From your specs it looks like you have single core? So upgrading to dual-core should give you a nice little improvement now, and hopefully more in the future. I've heard that they're already working very hard with Intel on multi-core optimizations for this game that will come out in future patches. I would hope that it helps AMD multi-core performance as well.

So, if I were you, I would upgrade the proc and videocard together. I would probably also go to 2GB - I've read that it's a very good idea to have for this game. A 4200+ X2 with an 8800GT and 2GB of RAM could very well double the remaining life of your current system.

 

[shaolin95]

Get an opty 165 for cheap that can OC like crazy and double your Ram...thats what my system is more or less.

 

[imported_Keiichi]

I'm running an A64 3700+ (at stock 2.2 Ghz) with an 8800GT and while I'm certainly being held back some by the processor (don't ask what my 3DMark score is...lol), the actual improvement in performance is massive. My previous card was a 7950GT, and before I could only manage playing Crysis at 1024x768 with medium settings (textures on high). Now I'm at 1280x1024 with High/Medium settings and frame rates are still higher than before; my average framerate in the GPU benchmark has more than tripled when using the same high/med settings on both cards. Picked up Gears of War and Lost Planet the other day too, and again performance has been fantastic in both. Lost Planet in particular, I had tried the demo before on the 7950GT and it ran so-so with most settings on medium and no AA. Now it's smooth as heck with settings on high and 4xAA.

Basically, you will see a drastic increase in performance, especially coming from a 6600. As for your noise concerns, most of the cards seem to default to 29% fan speed, and it is very quiet. Of course the fan speed is fully controllable if you wish using Rivatuner. Oh, and don't forget the 8800GT has Nvidia's next generation of video decoding hardware (which all other 8800s currently lack in any form) which is great for a HTPC.

 

[xstar]

Thank you for answering, ChilliConCarnage. You're right, with something like an 4200 X2 AND another GB of RAM to go with this 8800 GT (+ new PSU), things would be different. BUT: another identical pair of Geils would cost me 75 bucks (it's DDR memory), the 4200+ X2 another 100, plus 300 for the video card & PSU, resulting in an investment of 475 bucks, which is way more than my current budget. I see you have much lower prices on these items via NewEgg & such, unfortunately, they are not a buying option here in Europe. In fact, I see some 8800 GTs reaching even 350 bucks at some of our e-tailers (perhaps they missed the absence of that final S in their name...; nah, they just want to make a quick buck on our backs)!

Anyway, I just wanted to know if I can get away with just a new 8800 GT in my old rig, the rest remaining the same. As you point out, it looks like it's a no go...

Thanks again for your opinion. I am still waiting for other opinions though, perhaps from someone who jumped from a 6600 GT to a 8800 GT?

Cheers

 

[xstar]

And thank you Keiichi ! *me jumping from the chair reading your response through*

Now this I call great news! What kind & how much RAM do you have? And what temperatures do you get on your 8800 GT (idle/load)? Since you run your CPU at stock, I'm guessing no OC on the 8800? Also, do you play in DX9/XP or DX10/Vista?

Thanks!

 

[imported_Filbert]

I'm running essentially the same system. Except I recently upgraded to 2 gigs of RAM and have an FX-60 processor. I expect to see a big improvement from SLIed 6600GTs to a 8800GT.

 

[m1ldslide1]

xstar I think the answer is that purchasing an 8800GT now would allow you to play crysis, although with 1GB of RAM and a single-core processor you're going to experience choppiness and slow-downs that are not related to your GPU. I remember having choppiness in FEAR with 1GB of RAM that went away entirely with the upgrade to 2x1GB. I can only imagine this effect is compounded in the next generation of games. If you feel like you'll enjoy the game with settings turned down, then more power to you. You'll obviously be able to re-use the new GPU in a future build. However I feel like with all of the crazy advancements in both CPU and GPU technology that are coming out between now and late next summer, you could get a hell of a system this time next year at a very reasonable price point. That's of course assuming that you can wait.

I have a friend in a similar boat (939 + old vid card), and dropping $250 on a new system is just not in his budget at all - let alone another $250 on a video card. Instead he's going to get a 4200+ for $60 on newegg, and pick up a used 7800GT for $50 and rock out with that build for the next couple of years. Granted, he won't be doing much or any crysis, but it'll be a great system for everything else (including most games).

 

[imported_Keiichi]

Originally posted by: xstar
And thank you Keiichi ! *me jumping from the chair reading your response through*

Now this I call great news! What kind & how much RAM do you have? And what temperatures do you get on your 8800 GT (idle/load)? Since you run your CPU at stock, I'm guessing no OC on the 8800? Also, do you play in DX9/XP or DX10/Vista?

Thanks!

Sorry to reply so late, I actually had to work at work today and didn't get a chance to jump online :laugh:, I am running 2 gigs of DDR RAM. Temperatures for the card are 60 degrees C at idle, and mid-70s pushing to 80 while gaming (edit: those temps were before I changed up the fan speed, just finished playing some Gears of War and I didn't pass 70 degrees). This is with the fan set to 46% when temps are over 70. If I run ATI tool's artifact scanner, I can push the temp to almost 90s; before I adjusted the fan I was able to reach 94 degrees with the artifact scanner!

One hot little card, but please be aware I never had any errors while running the scanner for about an hour, and also during several hours of gaming I never went above 80 (no errors during gaming either, except one lock up while playing King Kong Gamer's Edition, but I chalk that up to a shoddy Xbox360 port more than anything; played plenty of the Crysis demo, Gears of War, Bioshock, and Rainbow 6: Vegas without a hiccup).

Yep, running the card at stock but it is default overclocked to 650/1620/1900. Also I'm still on XP, so am running DX9 (of course lol). I would suggest you pick up another gig of RAM, but again I will reiterate that the 8800GT performs great even for us lowly single-core users lol.

Oh, one last note, I have used a friend's 6600GT in my system a couple times during RMA periods, and I found the card to be a drastic step below the ol' 7950GT. So if I'm saying that the 8800GT is a drastic jump from the 7950GT, trust me when I say you'll be blown away going from the 6600 to the 8800!

 

[taltamir]

wait about a month or two for the next generation of CPUs and video cards to fully come out... then get a video card + cpu + ram + motherboard. for about 500$

Just upgrading individual components on your current system is simply not worth it. Any one of your components will bottleneck the system and you will simply be throwing money down the drain.


As for crysis... crysis is not indicative of other DX10 games, it takes about 4 times the system resources and simply needs more work. a pair of ultras for 1700$ (plus add the cost of mobo and power supply etc for them) will not be able to come close to maxing it at the moment.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: Filbert
I'm running essentially the same system. Except I recently upgraded to 2 gigs of RAM and have an FX-60 processor. I expect to see a big improvement from SLIed 6600GTs to a 8800GT.

2gb of ram and an fx60 are very different from 1gb of ram and an A64 3200+. OP really needs 3 upgrades: x2 cpu, an extra 1 gb ram, plus 8800gt/equivalent card. You only need one upgrade.

@OP, you might consider waiting for 3870 and/or 8800gt prices to drop a little bit. If you could get the vid card for $225 or so US then you might be more able to snag a cheap dual core cpu and an extra 1gb ddr on fs/ft.

 

[alcoholbob]

Low end A64 would choke too hard with an 8800GT...you might get a decent average fps that looks artificially close to a top-end CPU's...but your minimum fps would be horrendous due to weak physics calculations.

The firingsquad review showed it pretty well, they had from Quad Cores down to 4000+ Athlon single core paired with 8800GT. The difference was all in the minimum framerate, which tended to occur in heavy physics situations.

 

[imported_Filbert]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Originally posted by: Filbert
I'm running essentially the same system. Except I recently upgraded to 2 gigs of RAM and have an FX-60 processor. I expect to see a big improvement from SLIed 6600GTs to a 8800GT.

2gb of ram and an fx60 are very different from 1gb of ram and an A64 3200+. OP really needs 3 upgrades: x2 cpu, an extra 1 gb ram, plus 8800gt/equivalent card. You only need one upgrade...

Well I guess I said that I was running essentially the same system because I was before upgrading said RAM and processor. I suppose I should have said with some more RAM and a better 939 processor the 8800GT would be fine.

 

[xstar]

Sorry for the delay in replying.

@ Keiichi: damn, I was hoping you'd have only 1 Gig of RAM like me, so that I could have your performance too! It's of course good that you don't ;-) Well, as m1ldslide1 & others have pointed out, I am almost certain I will not reach your level of performance with only 1 Gig of RAM, and as I said, I'm reluctant to upgrade more than the video card.

Thank you all for replying, I now certainly have an idea about how upgrading to the 8800 GT would go with my old rig!

If I do make the switch - closer to Christmas - I will revive this thread with the results.

Thanks.