8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

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BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
2,979
126
8GB
Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.
Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:
Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

10GB / 12GB

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.
  1. It's the player's fault.
  2. It's the reviewer's fault.
  3. It's the developer's fault.
  4. It's AMD's fault.
  5. It's the game's fault.
  6. It's the driver's fault.
  7. It's a system configuration issue.
  8. Wrong settings were tested.
  9. Wrong area was tested.
  10. Wrong games were tested.
  11. 4K is irrelevant.
  12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
  13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
  14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
  15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
  16. It's an anomaly.
  17. It's a console port.
  18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
  19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
  20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
  21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.
According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!
 
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psolord

Platinum Member
Sep 16, 2009
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coercitiv said:
You don't have to answer his taunt, he's just switched tactics from simulating a debate on the product's qualities/shortcomings to shaming his opponents into buying more expensive stuff because they could presumably afford it. It's such a smelly logical fallacy that readers should be in tears by now.
Click to expand...
Everything I say is a logical fallacy, in the eyes of the self stroking clique.

The data is right there. Better pay attention to it instead of being a smartass.

The thread has been running for 3 years now. By the force everyone embraced it, 8GB cards should be in gutter right now. Still they are doing fine. The prime inhibiting factor is gpu power, not vram, as this thread suggested.
 
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Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
8,002
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psolord said:
My 4070 suggestion, is a matter of gpu power, not about vram.
Click to expand...

I wonder if there any number of documented cases somewhere that show a powerful GPU not being able to flex its full prowess because the VRAM is holding it back.

A Ferrari probably does just as well on the track with the cheapest set of Wal-Mart tires as it would with more expensive racing tires. You just to use correct gear ratios! There's no way a car with a less powerful motor using those racing tires would put up a faster lap time.

I don't know what that car analogy has to do with anything, but I thought it was interesting.
 
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psolord

Platinum Member
Sep 16, 2009
2,015
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Mopetar said:
I wonder if there any number of documented cases somewhere that show a powerful GPU not being able to flex its full prowess because the VRAM is holding it back.

A Ferrari probably does just as well on the track with the cheapest set of Wal-Mart tires as it would with more expensive racing tires. You just to use correct gear ratios! There's no way a car with a less powerful motor using those racing tires would put up a faster lap time.

I don't know what that car analogy has to do with anything, but I thought it was interesting.
Click to expand...
The data you need, is right here. I'm showing it to you (all of you, not you specifically) time and again, three years after this thread was started and you are not paying attention, because you are contrarians over 9000. All you do is calling me names, how thick headed I am and how much money nvidia is paying me.

Well, here's a new one amidst my logical fallacies. Yes UE5 again.



I will bash the 3060 again, due to its 12GBs, that you people think are solving problems. 30 glorious fps again. 3060ti is beating it easily. The hated 4060ti is destroying it.

4060ti is beating three 12GB cards and a 11GB one.

Top 8GB card is 85% faster than the slowest 8GB cards.

Top 12GB card is 2.55 times faster than the slowest 12GB, as an extra metric. Also, see how the 4070 becomes a 1080p card? This is how.

This is the future people. This is the present really, we are way past the future. Of course you are welcome to fine tune your settings...

Me and my thick head are signing off for now. I will wait when even one of you grows a pair and says dunno man, maybe you were right about some things.
 
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I

igor_kavinski

Lifer
Jul 27, 2020
17,779
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psolord said:
Yes UE5 again.
Click to expand...
A big reason why a developer may opt for UE5 is ease of porting their game across different platforms. So a multi platform nextgen game will have the current consoles as the lowest common denominator. Their GPU horsepower lags in comparison with PC dGPUs but they have ample VRAM available. Do you think these developers will go, "Gee, PCs with 8GB discrete cards have the lion's share of the market. Maybe I should hold back on the textures and make sure that no more than 8GB of textures are loaded into VRAM at any time and leave the extra VRAM un-utilized because the PC market matters wayyyy more for this console-first game."?
 
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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
28,791
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psolord said:
Everything I say is a logical fallacy, in the eyes of the self stroking clique.

The data is right there. Better pay attention to it instead of being a smartass.

The thread has been running for 3 years now. By the force everyone embraced it, 8GB cards should be in gutter right now. Still they are doing fine. The prime inhibiting factor is gpu power, not vram, as this thread suggested.
Click to expand...
I need to put my mod hat on for this response.

This thread has been getting special treatment for a long time now. As the majority of you decided the discussion is worth continuing and the thread should stay open.

As you are the lone dissenting opinion referring to you personally has been unavoidable. Hence it created an issue with one of the primary rules - the no callouts rule. How can we enforce it if you are the only member they can address their argument to? That difficulty is further compounded by your constantly drawing attention to yourself with vids and pics you made. All of which need to start being inside of spoiler tags to cut down on the thread clutter. Otherwise they will be getting deleted moving forward.

Some extra back and forth has also been allowed here in order for the discussion to continue. Some have reported you for trolling, self promotion, and spamming. Since your channel is non monetized, you are the only dissenting opinion, and you obviously think you're right and have put a lot of time and effort into defending your position, all of these complaints have not been acted on. But this quoted post is not a grey area at all, and needs to stop. It is the worst of all the fallacies; argumentum ad hominem. The bolded parts are clear violations of the no personal attacks rule. This will be the last one of those without filling in spaces on the ban bingo card.

The take away:

1. First rule of fight club/tech forums - Attack the post not the poster. No personal attacks. Some jabs at each others positions are fine as it has been good natured. And your evidently indefatigable contentions to the overwhelming consensus is the catalyst for everything else. But derisive name calling like the bolded above is a no go.

2. Always use spoiler tags on the many vids and pics you produce and share here.

- Mod DAPUNISHER
 
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Ranulf

Platinum Member
Jul 18, 2001
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psolord said:
Also, see how the 4070 becomes a 1080p card? This is how.
Click to expand...

Indeed. $500 of greatness, defeated a year later. Such value. So what you're saying is, no card is really a good value these days given game tech advancements? Welcome to the club!

Still Wakes the Deep hardware requirements via Steam:



Given the numbers you quote above with an i9 14th gen, I'd sure hate to see this game run on a quad core 2.5ghz equivalent or even the recommended 11th gen or Zen3 chips.
 
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Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
8,002
6,443
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psolord said:
The data you need, is right here. I'm showing it to you (all of you, not you specifically) time and again, three years after this thread was started and you are not paying attention, because you are contrarians over 9000.
Click to expand...

I found some lap times from a track where cars can't go very fast that show the tires on the Ferrari don't matter for the time, so clearly I can conclude that tires don't matter at all!

This has been pointed out to you so many times, but for whatever reason it just doesn't click for you.

If you use some e-sports title or other game that doesn't even use 2 GB of VRAM, then it's obvious that 8 GB doesn't matter than more than 6 GB, 12 GB, 4 GB, or 16 GB. It proves nothing.

For your premise to be correct it would have to be impossible to show even a single instance in which 8 GB is a limiting factor. The thread contains dozens of examples of this very thing. You're arguing that something is not possible after it's been shown to have occurred.

Here's another analogy. A person claims, "It is not possible for a human to run a mile in less than 4 minutes." At one point in this was probably true as no one had done it or if it had been done there was no recorded proof. But now someone has come along and run a mile in 3 minutes 57 seconds, and then another person and another have also shown sub 4 minute times and you're standing here trying to argue that because you can find a person who can't run the mile faster than 8 minutes that it's impossible. When everyone else points at the people who ran it in under 4 minutes you just point to some other person and say, but this guy can't even do it in six minutes, so it's not possible.

It's hardly surprising that everyone thinks you're a troll, because that's what it looks like. The only other explanation is that you'd need to have someone help you get dressed in the morning because you might strangle yourself trying to put a shirt on and there's nothing outside of your dogheaded defense of a position that everyone else can clearly see is wrong to make people think that you could possibly by that stupid. It's just too impossible for someone to have a fully functioning brain that's only completely broken in that singular regard. The odds are just too impossible for it to be real.

It's like a perfectly sane and reasonable person swearing that cats aren't real. Pictures of cats? Photoshops! Skeleton of a cat? A prank! The cat on his lap? A figment of everyone else's imagination! Everyone else is actually hoping it's just an odd troll because the alternative isn't something that mere mortal minds could hope to comprehend.

You also have to realize that even if you genuinely do believe what you're saying right now that it will not hold true at some point in the future. If 8GB were evergreen, why wasn't 4GB or 2 GB or 512 MB? So supposing that you don't believe that 8 GB is going to be good for all of time moving forward, what will be the evidence that will allow you to determine that 8 GB isn't enough any longer?

Really that's the only thing you need to state for this thread to move forward instead of being stuck in the hellish version of Groundhog's day that it's been in for something like a year now. If you cant or don't believe you can state any such criteria because it doesn't exist, then I think it's fair to say you believe 8 GB ought to be enough for any game and all time moving forward. At that point it's just an article of faith for you and there's nothing anyone here could possibly say to convince you otherwise any more than you could budge a devout man's belief in god.
 
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MrPickins

Diamond Member
May 24, 2003
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poke01 said:
12GB is enough at 1440p, 4K nope. That being said all $500 and more cards needs to come with 16GB.

Looking at you RTX 4070 Super, this card could have been very good for 4K if it had 16GB. Not a bad card at all but at that price point, 16 GB needs to be there.
Click to expand...
That's why I opted for the 7800XT. 16GB may be a slight bit of overkill for the card, but I know that amount of VRAM will never be the bottleneck. (Same reason I dropped in 64GB of system ram; no need to worry about it until the system is retired )
 
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Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
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MrPickins said:
That's why I opted for the 7800XT. 16GB may be a slight of bit overkill for the card, but I know that amount of VRAM will never be the bottleneck. (Same reason I dropped in 64GB of system ram; no need to worry about it until the system is retired )
Click to expand...

You won't regret it. I have a rig with a Polaris card in it still and it can run some older titles (or even less demanding newer titles at reduced settings) fine because I ended up getting an 8 GB model even though at the time I was really looking at scooping up a cheap 4 GB card and saving a bit.

If you replace your card every generation you can probably get by with a 12 GB card if you're not running 4K or RT, but anyone keeping a card for 5+ years really ought to buy a 16 GB card. Anyone on a budget can pick up a 6800XT and still do alright.
 
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MrPickins

Diamond Member
May 24, 2003
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Mopetar said:
You won't regret it. I have a rig with a Polaris card in it still and it can run some older titles (or even less demanding newer titles at reduced settings) fine because I ended up getting an 8 GB model even though at the time I was really looking at scooping up a cheap 4 GB card and saving a bit.

If you replace your card every generation you can probably get by with a 12 GB card if you're not running 4K or RT, but anyone keeping a card for 5+ years really ought to buy a 16 GB card. Anyone on a budget can pick up a 6800XT and still do alright.
Click to expand...
It's funny you say that, because my last card was an RX580 8GB. My experience with how much more gracefully it aged than the 4GB or even the 1060 6GB directly affected my purchase this time.

That RX 580 lasted a very long time, and still is put to good use in my kid's rig right now.
 
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blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
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www.teamjuchems.com
Mopetar said:
You won't regret it. I have a rig with a Polaris card in it still and it can run some older titles (or even less demanding newer titles at reduced settings) fine because I ended up getting an 8 GB model even though at the time I was really looking at scooping up a cheap 4 GB card and saving a bit.

If you replace your card every generation you can probably get by with a 12 GB card if you're not running 4K or RT, but anyone keeping a card for 5+ years really ought to buy a 16 GB card. Anyone on a budget can pick up a 6800XT and still do alright.
Click to expand...

Best thing I did was buy my kid a 8GB RX470 for about $80 shipped on eBay and like 6 months later sold it a guy who was so happy to come get it from my house for $385.

I'll let you guess when this was.

And yeah, he had to bum along for a bit with some other card I had but he has a 6700XT now and I consider that $300 part of how he got there

But do you know how long I thought about the extra $12 when I was looking at cards on eBay when I was picking it out? Too long.
 
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poke01

Golden Member
Mar 8, 2022
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MrPickins said:
That's why I opted for the 7800XT. 16GB may be a slight of bit overkill for the card, but I know that amount of VRAM will never be the bottleneck. (Same reason I dropped in 64GB of system ram; no need to worry about it until the system is retired )
Click to expand...
That’s a nice card enjoy, feel free to drop some Steel Nomad tests in the 3D mark thread.

I got the 4070S, I only play at 1440p and I liked the efficiency this gen from Nvidia.

I did research a fair bit before I gave my money to Jensen. I’m keen to see how 12GB at 1440p holds up in the next couple years.
 
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coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
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blckgrffn said:
Best thing I did was buy my kid a 8GB RX470 for about $80 shipped on eBay and like 6 months later sold it a guy who was so happy to come get it from my house for $385.
Click to expand...
Imagine being the kid and coming home one day only to see a stranger rushing through the door. Inside, your dad is counting a few hundred bucks.

"Son, I have good news and I have bad news. Do you want to hear about the new video card you'll get in a year... or two?"
 
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blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
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www.teamjuchems.com
coercitiv said:
Imagine being the kid and coming home one day only to see a stranger rushing through the door. Inside, your dad is counting a few hundred bucks.

"Son, I have good news and I have bad news. Do you want to hear about the new video card you'll get in a year... or two?"
Click to expand...
Oh man, what did I put in there... I think he had to fall back on a 4GB RX460 that I either got or sold to @DAPUNISHER or someone on the FS/FT forums. It's hard to remember, but he was playing SC remastered and SC2 almost exclusively at this time and let's just know my guy didn't really suffer. I didn't buy him Minecraft for PC until later so he had to make due on first he One then the Series X and it was awesome watching my kiddos couch coop. It's rough here.

I'd post a picture of him holding the 6700XT I installed with him - and its $930 price tag from Microcenter that was still attached that I traded my 5700XT for it - but you all will just have to use your imaginations. I do not miss these times. Know that I agonized about actually cracking the seal on that card vs just selling it, and yes, the fact that I had already sold one card in these upgrade schemes pushed me into finally taking off the plastic wrap.

Also, at this time he wasn't coming home because he never left. None of us did. We were all so... together. At home. So much. And that stranger? We did business in the driveway out in the open air.

Barely on topic - that RX460 was sooo disappointing to me. Truly a card where a 4GB framebuffer was probably wasted, which is saying something!
 
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