8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

[BFG10K]

8GB

• Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
  3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
• Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
• Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
• Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
• Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
• Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
• Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
• Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
• Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
• Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
• Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
• Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
• Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
• Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
• Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Spoiler

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Spoiler

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

Spoiler

10GB / 12GB

• Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
• Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

Spoiler

1. It's the player's fault.
2. It's the reviewer's fault.
3. It's the developer's fault.
4. It's AMD's fault.
5. It's the game's fault.
6. It's the driver's fault.
7. It's a system configuration issue.
8. Wrong settings were tested.
9. Wrong area was tested.
10. Wrong games were tested.
11. 4K is irrelevant.
12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
16. It's an anomaly.
17. It's a console port.
18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

 

[coercitiv]

But we can guess what he'll say. "It didn't hit the magic 60 fps so it's unplayable!".

It is a poor gaming experience IMHO, FG while getting less than 60FPS will be a "smooth slideshow" latency wise. That being said, using these settings as basis we know from HUB's optimization video there's an easy uplift of 40-80% performance to be had depending on preference for quality or performance. That would push average framerate towards 90 FPS with FG enabled, which should be a decent experience for a game like this.

The takeaway from this is that enabling all the features the card has to offer - DLSS, RT, FG - will require more than 8GB of VRAM or alternatively will require dropping FG to release some memory pressure. If I were this thread's nemesis... I would argue the 4060Ti 8GB is a 1080p 60Hz card, and anyone looking for high refresh gaming (native or FG) should pay more for the experience

 

[MrTeal]

Really all the poors should take their 22" Dell TN's from 2011 and be happy that Nvidia lets them hit their monitor's framerate cap for only $400.

 

[marees]

Old but gold

I can show you with proof:

In Digital Foundry's opinion —

"Since more than 80% of gamers have 8gb or less vram, UE5 (& other game developers) have to optimize for such cards"

My brain melted when I read that article

https://twitter.com/x/status/1801624750457754108

His recommendations were:

1. Add hardware RT even if it was completely unnecessary (because PCMR ??)
2. Add optimization for 8 gb cards because they are >80% on steam?

 

[igor_kavinski]

Old but gold

View attachment 106095

I can tell you the counterpost to yours, "Who is stupid enough to use $400 1080p card at 1440p?"

And, "The 3060 12GB is vastly underpowered and can't do 60fps in most games while the 4060 8GB can easily do that".

Trust me, if this were a legal case with a very forgiving judge, the case would go on till eternity.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Trust me, if this were a legal case with a very forgiving judge, the case would go on till eternity.

Not in my country. Defendant would have long ago been convicted by a jury of their peers (us). They would currently be serving out a sentence of 1hr for each and every post in this thread, doing community service teaching disadvantaged youths how to use "correct settings®"

 

[Jaskalas]

I can tell you the counterpost to yours, "Who is stupid enough to use $400 1080p card at 1440p?"

Imagine trying to enjoy 1440p with a GPU less than $800.
Wait, no... that's me!
Gulp...

*gently pats 3060 Ti.

 

[Mopetar]

Not in my country. Defendant would have long ago been convicted by a jury of their peers (us). They would currently be serving out a sentence of 1hr for each and every post in this thread, doing community service teaching disadvantaged youths how to use "correct settings®"

I don't even know if it would hit the jury. We're dealing with a sovereign 64-Gigabitizen who is posting under PowerColor of law. Thankfully most games are written in C, so the usual complaints about admiralty courts or maritime law can be dispensed with. Once the courts are dealing with a pro se (and pro correct settings) litigant they usually put the kid gloves on and put them through a competency hearing that the judge hopes that they fail just so some poor state appointed schmuck gets to deal with the full broadside of brilliant legal theory (quintuple posts with lots of graphs not hidden in spoiler tags).

If you subjected a jury to this most of them would opt for the death penalty, only for themselves. Eventually someone would turn it into a play that would become a television movie. Twelve Bewildered Men.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

@Mopetar

Congrats on winning today's internets. 🏆

I think comparing this thread to Groundhog Day is slightly off. It's more Live, Die, Repeat. And he just can't get off the beach. On topic: Not that it matters anymore, the OP rage quit. Frame gen, high res textures, and ray tracing will keep exposing low vram, and $400 for 8GB is criminal.

 

[jpiniero]

and $400 for 8GB is criminal.

I got bad news for ya... I do think there will be 8 GB Blackwell over $400.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I got bad news for ya... I do think there will be 8 GB Blackwell over $400.

It isn't bad news for me, I won't be gullible enough to buy it.

 

[psolord]

wow.

trust me, Bro. LOL

is this a joke? The platform has a lot to do with performance.

No one is ever going to take you seriously if this is your style of debating.

Sir, these were quick screen grabs and the best I could do at the moment. It's not like you have accepted anything I have said in this thread, anyway, right?

Case in point is this stop frame comparison, which you absolutely have to dispute any way possible. See it again, because you are ignoring facts.



The gpu in both instances is at 200-210W. Meaning for the 3060ti's TBP, is at its max. The result would be the exact same, no matter what cpu you would use.

This is not a case if a better platform has better performance overall. This is a case of extreme gpu limits.

See this example of Star Wars Outlaws, sorted by the 3060. Brand new.



No matter what the cpu is, the performance will be a disaster, thanks to how much the 12GBs are helping the 3060....

 

[psolord]

Speaking of which, here are the rest of the graphs of Star Wars Outlaws.

I mean, this one is on snowdrop engine and I expected better, but still....





Well, for the non RT results, the 3060ti is nearing 60fps while the 3060 is below 45. Great showing from the 12GB framebuffer lol.

The 3060 is beaten by SEVEN cards with less vram, once again.

And don't get me started with these ray tracing results, right? I mean you want max settings in this thread right? Congratulations, your 4090 is now a 1080p card.

 

[psolord]

HUB/Techspot did tests with 43 different GPUs. 8% higher average FPS and 42% higher 1% lows for the 16 GB 4060 Ti compared to the 8 GB 4060 Ti at max settings in 1080p.

You are talking about this one right?



55fps WITH framegen and your problem is the 8GB card differences? lol

We are talking completely useless gaming experience here. Have you any idea what kind of input lag are we talking about here? Is this the pinnacle of PC gaming for you? omg

You were very proficient to omit this one however, with true usable results, from the same freakin test....



This is the kind of ridiculousness that is going on with this thread, for ever. I said it before I will say it again. You are only fooling yourselves. As a wise man said, fools will continue on their way, even when they run out of path.

 

[psolord]

It's so funny. The Dude was using that game as the perfect example of "more VRAM don't make a lick of sense!".

But we can guess what he'll say. "It didn't hit the magic 60 fps so it's unplayable!".

It's not a matter of magic. It's a matter of usability.

 

[WelshBloke]

If I ever have to define what "reductio ad absurdum" means I'm linking to psolords posts in this thread!

 

[Ranulf]

Well, for the non RT results, the 3060ti is nearing 60fps while the 3060 is below 45. Great showing from the 12GB framebuffer lol.

The 3060 is beaten by SEVEN cards with less vram, once again.

And don't get me started with these ray tracing results, right? I mean you want max settings in this thread right? Congratulations, your 4090 is now a 1080p card.

I'm not sure what the settings differences are between your two charts listed. Avg and 1% lows? Also, Outlaws is shaping up to be a mess of odd settings options. I'm reading reports that the RTX cannot be turned off despite the minimum gpu required is a gtx 1660. So right now, Outlaws is nothing I would take seriously as a gpu benchmark. Maybe after a few weeks and we can get a handle on game options and how it works.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I'm not sure what the settings differences are between your two charts listed. Avg and 1% lows? Also, Outlaws is shaping up to be a mess of odd settings options. I'm reading reports that the RTX cannot be turned off despite the minimum gpu required is a gtx 1660. So right now, Outlaws is nothing I would take seriously as a gpu benchmark. Maybe after a few weeks and we can get a handle on game options and how it works.

If Star Wars Outlaws proves to be a good benchmark game at least it won't be a complete failure. The gameplay I watched had me laughing at how bad it looks and how broken the NPCs are.

Tim mentioned a few times during his Wukong optimization vid that he wished they had included higher res textures. But that he understood it was extra time=money. I have heard 2 different devs say it is better if they just make high quality assets. That scaling them down for the sake of cards without enough vram is the extra work. I guess Game Science skpped straight to step 2.

 

[igor_kavinski]

It's not a matter of magic. It's a matter of usability.

Which varies by user and is subjective.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I'm reading reports that the RTX cannot be turned off despite the minimum gpu required is a gtx 1660.

Sounds like a Jensen sponsored title. And yeah, they got some intern to launch the game on a 1660. He saw some slideshow fps and heard correct sounds without stuttering so that became the minimum requirement. And maybe all the devs and playstesters have unreleased Nvidia hardware to test on? Wouldn't surprise me. Nvidia could tout their 5090 with performance charts of this game.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I have heard 2 different devs say it is better if they just make high quality assets. That scaling them down for the sake of cards without enough vram is the extra work.

It's not that hard in theory. Upon launch, they could simply check VRAM and if it's insufficient for the high quality assets, do the downscaling/downgrading on the gamer's PC in real time as a one time process. Then they don't need to include several different quality texture assets with the game. Should reduce game size even.

And that would lead to some cursing from the dude when he tries to run such a game on his old hardware with 8GB GPUs: "Time remaining: 48 days 10 hours 33 minutes and 9 seconds...".

 

[maddie]

Which varies by user and is subjective.

Nah, our LORD has spoken, who are we to disagree

 

[DAPUNISHER]

10GB VRAM at 1080 very low ☠️

 

[Ranulf]

Is that at the specs requirement list of 30fps? Ouch, good luck to all those min req cards running 6GB.

This RTXDI stuff could be the issue.

NVIDIA RTXDI

developer.nvidia.com

Comparison video on a 4080 4k only:

These guys say that ray tracing is always on.

Star Wars Outlaws graphics modes explained: Performance vs quality differences

Which Star Wars Outlaws graphics mode is best?

www.pcinvasion.com

Surprisingly, ray tracing is enabled on all graphics modes in Star Wars Outlaws. Similar to Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora (which runs on the same engine as Outlaws), Star Wars Outlaws features ray-traced global illumination on PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X|S.


Ray tracing will look better in quality mode, but it’s not disabled when swapping to performance mode. The console version of Outlaws doesn’t get access to ray-traced reflections or shadows like the PC version, however, but RTGI has a much more transformative effect anyway.

Edit to add: Special Outlaw settings via reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/1f27x72/i_just_discovered_hidden_graphics_settings_in

 

[igor_kavinski]

The foliage implementation looks wayyyy better than Avatar, at least to my eyes. Or maybe it's just the wind effects making it look cooler?

 

[marees]

A low-end 12GB GPU can still sustain constant FPS which is significantly better than 8GB GPU’s FPS which fluctuates drastically.

Is 8GB of VRAM Enough in 2023? | SabrePC

The gaming industry has been evolving at a rapid pace over the years, with game developers focusing more on creating games with visually stunning graphics. Does 8GB GPUs cut it anymore?

www.sabrepc.com