8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

[BFG10K]

8GB

• Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
  3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
• Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
• Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
• Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
• Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
• Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
• Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
• Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
• Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
• Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
• Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
• Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
• Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
• Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
• Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Spoiler

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Spoiler

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

Spoiler

10GB / 12GB

• Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
• Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

Spoiler

1. It's the player's fault.
2. It's the reviewer's fault.
3. It's the developer's fault.
4. It's AMD's fault.
5. It's the game's fault.
6. It's the driver's fault.
7. It's a system configuration issue.
8. Wrong settings were tested.
9. Wrong area was tested.
10. Wrong games were tested.
11. 4K is irrelevant.
12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
16. It's an anomaly.
17. It's a console port.
18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

 

[psolord]

You're just factually wrong here. Here's a nearly two decade old review from AT: https://www.anandtech.com/show/2116/20

Here's the relevant bit:

"In our game tests, in every game we enabled the highest level of quality possible as far as features and effects are concerned. Where it was an option we enabled 16xAF in game. In games with "texture filtering" settings (like Battlefield 2) we endabled the highest level of filtering in game. In Oblivion we forced 16xAF in the control panel.

With the exception of Oblivion, we enabled AA in all our general performance tests. Where we were given the option, we chose 4xAA. In Black & White 2 and Company of Heroes we enabled AA in game (High for BW2 and Enabled for CoH)."

And then the results:

View attachment 107264
That's just one game, but you can read the rest of the review if you want.

Max settings with results for the three main resolutions. The resolutions have changed and in time will change again, but that's immaterial for my argument.

You're not trying to "correct" anything. You're just wrong. No one says that you have to personally play at those settings, but benchmarking GPUs has been done by maxing out settings for generations now. You only choose to promote your own approach because it suits your argument and for no other reason. Never mind that doing what you suggest makes it far harder for consumers to compare cards because there would be no apples to apples comparison.



RT certainly is a separate category which is why most reviewers have results for it enabled vs. disabled. However because it is executed on specialized hardware the connection to traditional GPU execution units isn't really relevant to the discussion. It does require more VRAM in order to store the additional data structures used for performing the various calculations used. That's not at all a point in your favor.

Making a card better a RT would require more dedicated hardware and would either mean bigger dies or come at the expense of traditional raster performance as shaders are cut to make room for more RT hardware. Maybe consumers would be willing to take that deal, but that's not for me to decide. Your tired arguments about GPU power aren't relevant because increasing shader count (or other conventional GPU hardware) does nothing for RT performance unless it's a software implementation, which is nowhere near as fast as the dedicated hardware accelerators.

But even if someone built a card where it's effectively a 4060 Ti only the RT hardware is quadrupled so that it has more ray tracing cores than a 4090 the performance would still suck because 8 GB or VRAM wouldn't be enough.

I understand your reasoning, but I will have to insist that nowadays things are more complicated and a fairer amount of reading between the lines (results), must be applied.

Otherwise you are telling me, that you accept that the 3060ti and the 7900XTX are equal in AOM Retold when maxed settings are used without any shred of second thoughts.

I will also refer you to the above gamegpu's results as well the previous ones. Things are different today, in the sense that you didn't see high end solutions back then, struggling at 1080p, which is even lower than the resolutions used in the above test.

 

[mikeymikec]

But it does. You clearly said:


And I said, that if they increased the texture quality of a texture that is rendered 400 times, then you don't increase the memory requirement by 400 times.

You assume:

1 texture = 1MB. You render it 400 times and it's 400MB. Increase it to 5MB. Render it 400 times and it's 2000MBs. No. It's not "each".

Ah man, you've absolutely got this argument with yourself nailed! You can do it! But maybe you ought to finish off demonstrating your grasp of this topic in the shower, everyone knows the best arguments are won there.

 

[psolord]

Diablo 4 with all the visual goodies turned up at 1440p on my 2nd system with a 4070 Ti Super. This is a good example of a video card that has enough performance to justify needing more than 8/10/12GB of VRAM. And yes, I could dial down the graphics settings to make it fit into less VRAM, but there's plenty of performance to run everything at max settings, so why not run it like this?

P.S. Also, I was using around 16-18GB of system RAM running Diablo 4, Discord, a couple of web browser tabs, and some hardware monitoring software. IMO 32GB of system RAM should be in every high end gaming rig now.

View attachment 107642

The 4070ti super is a super powerful card and sure as hell I am glad that it has the video ram it has. I am not crazy. Still what you see in terms of vram usage, does not mean it's 100% needed. This has been discussed before.

See here the 4060ti 8GB vs the 7600XT 16GB at 1440p/ultra. The 4060 ti is still a little faster, even though the vram usage on the 7600XT is twice as much. The 4060ti also consumes 50W less. The 1% lows are better on the 7600XT, but still very high at 60fps on the 4060ti. Sure the 4060ti 16GB did even better, but overall not the disaster this thread projected it to be. And the 4060ti 8GB is not a 1440p card anyway.

(not my vid)

I have also done my own testing. All my 8GB cards performed within their capabilities just fine.