8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

[BFG10K]

8GB

• Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
  3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
• Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
• Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
• Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
• Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
• Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
• Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
• Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
• Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
• Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
• Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
• Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
• Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
• Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
• Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Spoiler

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Spoiler

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

Spoiler

10GB / 12GB

• Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
• Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

Spoiler

1. It's the player's fault.
2. It's the reviewer's fault.
3. It's the developer's fault.
4. It's AMD's fault.
5. It's the game's fault.
6. It's the driver's fault.
7. It's a system configuration issue.
8. Wrong settings were tested.
9. Wrong area was tested.
10. Wrong games were tested.
11. 4K is irrelevant.
12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
16. It's an anomaly.
17. It's a console port.
18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

 

[DAPUNISHER]

BUT NO, I told the wife I'd cool the PC parts buying after putting together sig rig. I'm not going to die lonely and unloved on account of some PC parts. MUST REMAIN STRONG.

I go through that with the Mrs. But I eventually win via psyops. I start musing about a waverunner, boat, superbike, a powerlifting cage, new barbells and more weights, that kind of thing. PC parts start sounding pretty cheap after all that.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

I go through that with the Mrs. But I eventually win via psyops. I start musing about a waverunner, boat, superbike, a powerlifting cage, new barbells and more weights, that kind of thing. PC parts start sounding pretty cheap after all that.

-Yeah maybe I need to start talking about how nice it would be to have a boat...

The HTPC is a mATX so only two slots so I took a look at what 2 x 16gb modules run and its like $60 bucks OMFG I'm dying here.

The Mrs. is actually using this PC to play through HWL (my sig rig is in the office and more of a conventional desktop set-up so she's not interested in that) so I really need to not tinker with the PC.

Ironically while doing my sig rig build she got so sick of me spending my downtime working on the PC that she finally told me, in the most exasperated wife tone of voice you can imagine, "Why don't you stop trying to save a few bucks with used parts and just spend the money to get working new stuff" so I know I can wear her down if I put my mind to it

 

[blckgrffn]

So what you’re saying is the “For Science” rig needs to be a second one you just slide in full functional?

*side eye at my GTX 980ti folding away*

Yeah, I just bought jdec 3200 1.2v 32GB on Amazon for like $63 for a work PC

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Careful with talk of a boat. If you have kids, you might end up with a boat. AKA a hole in the water you throw money into.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Since we hijacked this thread I will get it back on track.

Wo long Fallen Dynasty eats up 4GB cards even with low 1080p. On the highest settings it eats 7GB. I will test 1440 and 4K and see if 8GB cards are getting clapped again.

 

[aigomorla]

I really think its totally unacceptable for a GPU at 700 dollars + to have anything less then 12GB of Ram.
Gpu prices these days are insane.
I never thought i would see the day where the GPU would cost more then the CPU + Motherboard + RAM combined, and thats for a SINGLE GPU, and not SLI or X-FIRE.

 

[blckgrffn]

I could get a 7700X, MSI board and 32GB of DD5 at my local Microcenter for $499. I had the 7900X/$600 version of that combo reserved for pickup, but I just didn't want the ASUS board. This MSI board though has me more interested for my work machine...



Anyway, yeah. I could do a whole AM5 PC (sans GPU) for the price of a 70 series nvidia GPU. :/

That said, I think if someone feels current Gen cards are worth the price to them, go for it. I don't think we are going to see tremendously better value come in 2023 and YOLO. Get 'r done and let 'r rip, play some games!

 

[maddie]

I really think its totally unacceptable for a GPU at 700 dollars + to have anything less then 12GB of Ram.
Gpu prices these days are insane.
I never thought i would see the day where the GPU would cost more then the CPU + Motherboard + RAM combined, and thats for a SINGLE GPU, and not SLI or X-FIRE.

AND, we're being propagandized & told that they'll lose money at that price.

 

[jpiniero]

Best bet continues to be hoping for 3 or 4 GB chips. Who knows when they will show up.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Wo long says you better go long. 1440 it allocates more than 8GB at times, but that is in the demo. Could be worse as the game goes on. 4K allocates as much as 10.5GB at times, averages over 9GB. May be another title where 8GB isn't cutting it anymore.

Game does not look nearly good enough to justify how crap it runs either.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I really think its totally unacceptable for a GPU at 700 dollars + to have anything less then 12GB of Ram.
Gpu prices these days are insane.
I never thought i would see the day where the GPU would cost more then the CPU + Motherboard + RAM combined, and thats for a SINGLE GPU, and not SLI or X-FIRE.

Agreed $700 should be the premium product in graphics cards and $1000 should be the halo product. Crazy how there still is not a middle ground option for cards something in the $350-$500 range.
I’ve given up on there ever being a competent cards in the $200 range.
God dammit as I’ve said many times in the other thread, Intel get your stuff together and start bringing some competition to the battle. WE NEED A THIRD CHOICE.

 

[Thunder 57]

Wo long says you better go long. 1440 it allocates more than 8GB at times, but that is in the demo. Could be worse as the game goes on. 4K allocates as much as 10.5GB at times, averages over 9GB. May be another title where 8GB isn't cutting it anymore.

Game does not look nearly good enough to justify how crap it runs either.

They certainly do not. Goldeneye ran on 4MB of shared RAM. HL2 ran (probably like crap) on as little as 128MB. It very much reminds me of this:




There was a time programmers/developers used every trick they could to make things run with what was available. Now we have so much processing power they have gotten lazy.

 

[Mopetar]

The Mrs. is actually using this PC to play through HWL (my sig rig is in the office and more of a conventional desktop set-up so she's not interested in that) so I really need to not tinker with the PC.

You've got it backwards. Now is the time to tinker. Drop the clock speeds by 1% every day. It's not enough to notice the gradual change, but eventually it will feel slow and she'll want the upgrade.

There was a time programmers/developers used every trick they could to make things run with what was available. Now we have so much processing power they have gotten lazy.

If we limit the pool of developers to genius-level mathematicians that can work at NASA we won't get very much software made. There's plenty that can largely be done by code monkeys cobbling together JavaScript they lifted from stackoverflow so regardless of what you might want, there's probably an app for that. A terribly inefficient, awkward, borderline unusable, and generally crap app, but it's better than the alternative of nothing for the people who want it.

 

[Thunder 57]

You've got it backwards. Now is the time to tinker. Drop the clock speeds by 1% every day. It's not enough to notice the gradual change, but eventually it will feel slow and she'll want the upgrade.



If we limit the pool of developers to genius-level mathematicians that can work at NASA we won't get very much software made. There's plenty that can largely be done by code monkeys cobbling together JavaScript they lifted from stackoverflow so regardless of what you might want, there's probably an app for that. A terribly inefficient, awkward, borderline unusable, and generally crap app, but it's better than the alternative of nothing for the people who want it.

Fair enough about NASA. But look at the games I mentioned. Even Doom 2016 is very well optimized and only needed 2GB. I tried running it on a single core and it ran fine except loading a level was slow. There are people out there who can optimize very well. There are many more who don't think too much of it.

 

[BFG10K]

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said they were lying. I just said something was odd, that HWUB should have noticed.

Either you think the results are accurate or you don't. Which is it? If you don't know then you're adding nothing to the conversation and just trolling.

It's something that bears a little more investigation.

They're testing different parts of the game, brah. That's why the performance is different between articles.

Even if this was the consistent result for Far Cry. It's hardly a big deal. You could simply use DLSS/FSR for that game, if you want to run 4K on a mid series card like the 3070...

And there it is folks, #10 and #14 in the 15-step denial program of "it's not nVidia's fault"(tm).

Is a 3060 a mid series card too? How about a 6700XT? How come those cheaper cards don't need upscaling in Far Cry?

Why do you think nVidia isn't to blame for shipping nine year old VRAM capacities on cards that paradoxically require more VRAM because of ray tracing, while both AMD and Intel with minuscule dGPU market share have no such problem?

8GB is neeeevaaaaah nVidia's fault, amrite?

 

[BFG10K]

I don't think John @ Digital Foundry will be doing a PC Hogwarts Legacy analysis.

Spoiler

 

[GodisanAtheist]

I don't think John @ Digital Foundry will be doing a PC Hogwarts Legacy analysis.

Spoiler

-Now this is how you boycott something without saying that you're boycotting something.

Shoulda tossed in a "and anyone that likes Harry Potter and plays this game is a knuckle dragging troglodyte" for good measure.

 

[amenx]

I think demanding games have gotten to the point that where 8gb is not enough, neither is the GPU. Thats the point of having higher tiers to choose from. You will not find a game where its performance is crippled by 8gb to suddenly do 60fps if its vram was doubled. Its the whole GPU that matters.

Meanwhile, if you have an 8gb GPU, you can still enjoy it in the vast majority of games where it will run perfectly well under reasonable settings. Just keep in mind the ongoing collusion of GPU makers and game developers where they must raise the bar every GPU gen to keep in business. The most crippling games to run today are not necessarily much visually improved over games of 5 years ago.

 

[Spjut]

I don't think John @ Digital Foundry will be doing a PC Hogwarts Legacy analysis.

Spoiler

I see he backed off later in the comments, but that kind of comment makes you reconsider how you look at their site. I only read their analyses and various game developer interviews though, not following their Directs or other content, so perhaps it wasn't a surprise to others.

I have always viewed Digital Foundry as a site focusing on the tech, and not only for AAA games, but other games too where the tech did something exciting, and to see one of their most prominent reviewers suddenly say he won't look at the tech in one of the biggest releases so far this year, simply because he hates both open world and the franchise, just turned my expectations around.

 

[blckgrffn]

I see he backed off later in the comments, but that kind of comment makes you reconsider how you look at their site. I only read their analyses and various game developer interviews though, not following their Directs or other content, so perhaps it wasn't a surprise to others.

I have always viewed Digital Foundry as a site focusing on the tech, and not only for AAA games, but other games too where the tech did something exciting, and to see one of their most prominent reviewers suddenly say he won't look at the tech in one of the biggest releases so far this year, simply because he hates both open world and the franchise, just turned my expectations around.

That level of bile really disappoints me. I get it, you don’t like it but your job is to cover games and technology. It’s a huge game now and is going to be something that people expect to see included.

Personally, my fantasy roots run older and deeper than HP even though my peer group was the target when it came out. I had already been reading Tolkien, Jordan, Rice, King and tons more by the time it landed and I read the first book and it just seemed so base and derivative, I didn’t like it. So I stopped.

But, importantly, it motivated many to read and exposed them to many fantasy’s tropes. It’s a cultural touchstone, like it or not.

So I have read them all, out loud, to my son after he had read them for the first time. There was plenty to talk about at times and it wasn’t the themes getting drug into view now.

The fact that he took such a dump on both the franchise and the format leads you to believe any review he will create of it will be extremely lacking in objectivity and I wonder if he realizes how many people he alienated with that rant. Smh.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

DF may as well be the unofficial marketing arm of Nvidia. I assure you, it would be Alex doing the tech review of Hogshardware. He will shamelessly fap over DLSS and frame generation.

Wo Long is another hot mess. I was able to play through the demo, which is surprisingly long. It ends after beating the 3rd boss. At the beginning of the first 2 levels, shader caching took a hot second. The rest was fairly smooth sailing on a 6800 1440/60 Max settings. Broke the 8GB barrier fairly often. I haven't tried it on a 8GB card yet, so can't say if it needs that much or not. I will confidently assert that you ain't playing at 4K max on 8GB though.

At 4K I would have to lock it at 30 with this card for a console like experience. Because while it is often in the 40s and 50s it dips into the 30s when there are enough particle effects on screen. Like in the burning village. Boss fights are stressful too.

They seem to have straight up ported the console version as quick and dirty as possible. I think it is using checkerboarding? No DLSS, FSR, XeSS = what were they thinking?

Anyways, it belongs on the quickly growing list of games where your 3070ti is probably going to struggle bus it at higher res, because of VRAM limits instead of lack of "horsepower".

 

[Hitman928]

I think demanding games have gotten to the point that where 8gb is not enough, neither is the GPU. Thats the point of having higher tiers to choose from. You will not find a game where its performance is crippled by 8gb to suddenly do 60fps if its vram was doubled. Its the whole GPU that matters.

Meanwhile, if you have an 8gb GPU, you can still enjoy it in the vast majority of games where it will run perfectly well under reasonable settings. Just keep in mind the ongoing collusion of GPU makers and game developers where they must raise the bar every GPU gen to keep in business. The most crippling games to run today are not necessarily much visually improved over games of 5 years ago.

There are multiple examples where an 8 GB card having more VRAM would go from struggling at best to perfectly playable. . .

 

[DAPUNISHER]

There are multiple examples where an 8 GB card having more VRAM would go from struggling at best to perfectly playable. . .

I wasn't even going to touch that one. Homie is in the bargaining phase of Kubler-Ross

 

[amenx]

There are multiple examples where an 8 GB card having more VRAM would go from struggling at best to perfectly playable. . .

That indeed looks like the card is being limited by its 8gb vram (with RT enabled in 4k). But if you're on 1440p (or 1080p), like most owners of that card would probably be, you should be a happy camper. If you're on a 4k display and want RT, get a higher tier card with more vram obviously.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

That indeed looks like the card is being limited by its 8gb vram (with RT enabled in 4k). But if you're on 1440p (or 1080p), like most owners of that card would probably be, you should be a happy camper. If you're on a 4k display and want RT, get a higher tier card with more vram obviously.

You are still missing the forest for all the trees blocking your view. You seem to think they'd need a more expensive card for some odd reason. They could buy a 6700XT that is much less expensive than what a 3070ti has been selling for, and have a much better experience. That chart doesn't convey the frame pacing issues you will see when that framebuffer is saturated.