8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

[BFG10K]

8GB

• Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
  3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
• Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
• Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
• Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
• Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
• Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
• Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
• Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
• Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
• Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
• Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
• Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
• Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
• Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
• Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Spoiler

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Spoiler

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

Spoiler

10GB / 12GB

• Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
• Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

Spoiler

1. It's the player's fault.
2. It's the reviewer's fault.
3. It's the developer's fault.
4. It's AMD's fault.
5. It's the game's fault.
6. It's the driver's fault.
7. It's a system configuration issue.
8. Wrong settings were tested.
9. Wrong area was tested.
10. Wrong games were tested.
11. 4K is irrelevant.
12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
16. It's an anomaly.
17. It's a console port.
18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

 

[amenx]

You are still missing the forest for all the trees blocking your view. You seem to think they'd need a more expensive card for some odd reason. They could buy a 6700XT that is much less expensive than what a 3070ti has been selling for, and have a much better experience. That chart doesn't convey the frame pacing issues you will see when that framebuffer is saturated.

Yes, ppl can buy a less expensive 6700XT and have a much better experience in scenarios where 8gb is hobbled (as in above example with 4k + RT on). But in vast majority of (of present, not future) scenarios where 1440p is the usual res for 8gb card owners, that may be debatable. In fact only example I've seen where an 8gb card tanks @ 1440p (Hogs L ultra + RT), its also unplayable for the 12gb 6700xt. If you want to settle on outliers as the the main rule why 8gb is no longer enough even for 1440p users, so be it. Not gonna argue, I'm outta here.

 

[BFG10K]

You will not find a game where its performance is crippled by 8gb to suddenly do 60fps if its vram was doubled.

Except that's exactly what happens in several examples in the OP. All it takes is 8GB -> 12GB, you don't need 16GB.

In fact only example I've seen where an 8gb card tanks @ 1440p (Hogs L ultra + RT), its also unplayable for the 12gb 6700xt.

Again, see the OP. Doom Eternal tanks at 1440p and Company of Heroes has worse minimums even at 1080p on 8GB cards.

If you want to settle on outliers as the the main rule why 8gb is no longer enough even for 1440p users, so be it.

#15: It's an anomaly!

I'm still not sure why you continue to post your feelings as fact when the objective evidence in the OP has already proven you wrong multiple times.

 

[jpiniero]

https://blog.playstation.com/tachyon/2023/03/89340f480db3aca3cbb26c8ce62891559e5e621f.jpg?fit=1024%2C576&zoom=1.5

Might need more than 8 GB for TLOU pt 1, if playing above 1080p.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

https://blog.playstation.com/tachyon/2023/03/89340f480db3aca3cbb26c8ce62891559e5e621f.jpg?fit=1024%2C576&zoom=1.5

Might need more than 8 GB for TLOU pt 1, if playing above 1080p.

Certainly looks that way for high preset 1440.

Though that list has several things making me spicy. I think I may be too poor to even pay attention, because what the hell is a RX 5800 XT? Why spec 12 thread CPUs for 1080 high, but suddenly recommend a 8 thread CPU in the 9700K for 1440? With the way some of the other PS5 ports have played, the 8700 is going to be a better choice because of the extra threads. Then they suddenly go - Oh yeah, you need a 24 thread AMD CPU for 4K Ultra. Silly specs are silly.

 

[jpiniero]

because what the hell is a RX 5800 XT?

Typo for 5700 XT.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Typo for 5700 XT.

Thanks. I was starting to think it was one of those weird configs like the 2048SP RX 580, coming out of China.

 

[blckgrffn]

And the 3060 8GB getting a shout out? Ha.

Yeah, the 9700K probably should be listed as a 9900K, but I guess it does have 2 additional cores vs all those extra threads.

I've taken a liking to the 8700K on that platform as the 9900K tends to command a premium but I think the 12T long term will trump the loss of two cores. We'll see

 

[BFG10K]

Hardware Lab's 1440p side by side frametime graphs with 3070 8GB and 6700XT 12GB.

• Confirms Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, and Doom Eternal results in the OP.
• Godfall stutters more on the 3070 despite higher overall FPS.
• Even 12 GB isn't enough in Forspoken, confirmed by needing low textures.
• Watchdogs Legion is slower on 3070 and has up to 2x performance randomness between runs.

So we can add Godfall, Forspoken and Watchdogs Legion to the list. I guess all three are also "anomalies", heh.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I think it is safe to say at this juncture, major game developers fully expected majority of gamers to have around 16GB of video memory by this point in time.
I wonder if people developing games now will scale back their games video memory needs and I wonder if we will get more video memory or if we do will games look less nice due to being made for less memory.
Interesting stuff to ponder about.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Here's a REALLY evil idea. Make low VRAM optimized versions of the games and force the 8GB Nvidiots to pay extra for those versions (or make them the special Nvidia texture pack DLC). I think $20 should be fine for the extra effort gamedevs have to do to downscale assets to fit inside 8GB

MUAHAHAHAHA!!!! (I think Jensen has rubbed off on me a bit)

 

[kondziowy]

Last time such a flop happend it was GTX770 2GB era. Every streamer had this card because 70 series was way more affordable. I don't remember the name of the game.. must have been very popular title and I watched them fire it up for the first time and stutter fest beginning And they were like oh... must lower the settings... and next week they had gtx970. Meanwhile there were no problems for people with R9 280x I'm done beating this horse, I'm sorry, I'm out It's just super funny to me for some reason.

 

[coercitiv]

I guess all three are also "anomalies", heh.

16. Video doesn't load.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Here's a REALLY evil idea. Make low VRAM optimized versions of the games and force the 8GB Nvidiots to pay extra for those versions (or make them the special Nvidia texture pack DLC). I think $20 should be fine for the extra effort gamedevs have to do to downscale assets to fit inside 8GB

MUAHAHAHAHA!!!! (I think Jensen has rubbed off on me a bit)

I hope you know N33 is paired with only 8GB Vram and N32 is still unreleased.

 

[ZGR]

I’m playing a lot of VR and am able to hit my VRAM limit in Into The Radius when playing at around 4000x4000 per eye (upscaling) at 120fps and 120hz. Really well optimized game. But the stuttering got pretty bad after loading a new area and running out of vram. Lowering resolution quickly fixed it.

I’m all aboard the VR train. Really obvious how playing above 4k per eye can make VRAM usage explode. Excited for Pimax 12k and other similar next gen HMDs. Gonna make RTX 4000 and RX 7000 feel completely inadequate when it comes to their shader performance.

 

[Ranulf]

Hardware Lab's 1440p side by side frametime graphs with 3070 8GB and 6700XT 12GB.

• Confirms Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, and Doom Eternal results in the OP.
• Godfall stutters more on the 3070 despite higher overall FPS.
• Even 12 GB isn't enough in Forspoken, confirmed by needing low textures.
• Watchdogs Legion is slower on 3070 and has up to 2x performance randomness between runs.

So we can add Godfall, Forspoken and Watchdogs Legion to the list. I guess all three are also "anomalies", heh.

This guy has a video on relative performance:

 

[KompuKare]

Since these "Is s X GB enough for..." threads always get people so super defensive about the latest card where Nvidia cheapened out on the VRAM, I thing we should name them differently.
"Was 8GB too much VRAM for the R9-290X / RX480 / GTX 1070?" would be a much harder thread title to get emotional about!

 

[aigomorla]

That indeed looks like the card is being limited by its 8gb vram (with RT enabled in 4k)

Yes... you look at the min frame rates on the 3070 and 6800.
You can see what having more VRAM does on the overall performance of the card.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Last time such a flop happend it was GTX770 2GB era. Every streamer had this card because 70 series was way more affordable. I don't remember the name of the game.. must have been very popular title and I watched them fire it up for the first time and stutter fest beginning And they were like oh... must lower the settings... and next week they had gtx970. Meanwhile there were no problems for people with R9 280x I'm done beating this horse, I'm sorry, I'm out It's just super funny to me for some reason.

Yeah GTX 770 is all I could think of when deciding if I wanted to buy a 6700 XT or 3060 Ti / 3070. God that card aged badly and aged quickly.

 

[yepp]

Steelrising is another game. 8GB is only good enough for medium textures even for sub 1080p resolution and medium textures is actually the games "lowest texture setting", which has some ugly looking low res textures. Using high textures or above on 8GB will introduce texture streaming issues where textures will pop-in seconds later akin to the old Rage game from 2011 or won't load in properly at all, resulting in the games presentation being a inconsistent mess. Similarly using ultra textures on a sub 16GB card will also introduce texture loading issues.

Steam Community :: Guide :: Steelrising Performance & Vram Guide

Here is a small overview of the Vram consumption of the textures: Ultra Textures 1080p: 12GB, 1440p: 13 GB, 4k: 15GB High Textures: 1080p: 7.5GB, 1440p: 8.5 GB, 4k: 12GB Medium textures: 1080p: 5.5

steamcommunity.com

Steelrising's Ultra Textures require more than 13GB of VRAM, even at 1080p

Steelrising is one of the few games that comes with some ridiculously high VRAM requirements for its Ultra Textures.

www.dsogaming.com

 

[CP5670]

I’m playing a lot of VR and am able to hit my VRAM limit in Into The Radius when playing at around 4000x4000 per eye (upscaling) at 120fps and 120hz. Really well optimized game. But the stuttering got pretty bad after loading a new area and running out of vram. Lowering resolution quickly fixed it.

I’m all aboard the VR train. Really obvious how playing above 4k per eye can make VRAM usage explode. Excited for Pimax 12k and other similar next gen HMDs. Gonna make RTX 4000 and RX 7000 feel completely inadequate when it comes to their shader performance.

Try out Alyx and the Levitation mod. The engine is highly optimized but is very vram heavy and easily goes beyond 20GB process usage in some maps. Cards like the 3080 would quickly fall short in VR.

 

[ZGR]

Try out Alyx and the Levitation mod. The engine is highly optimized but is very vram heavy and easily goes beyond 20GB process usage in some maps. Cards like the 3080 would quickly fall short in VR.

I am patiently waiting for a sale. I did watch my friend play it quite a bit and it ran at a locked 90 on his 3070 below 1x scaling. He is still running a 1st gen Rift so the in-game resolution is very low compared to a modern HMD.

What resolution do you play at? I am on a Quest 2, so even my native resolution is low. The 120hz keeps me feeling happy though and the 3080 lacks the power to go higher res and keep the framerate.

I’m more interested in if performance starts to drop off in Alyx. It is interesting to see how some games can handle limited VRAM quite well in VR. But that means being at the mercy of the game developer. Not a good position to be in, haha.

 

[CP5670]

I play on the Reverb G2, which is about 6400x3200 for both eyes at 100% scaling. It only does 90hz though. Alyx performs well on a range of hardware but it reduces the resolution and textures resolution to keep up.

 

[ZGR]

I did pick up HL Alyx for $24 on the Steam sale. It is a good looking game but it has a ton of quirks. I can't help myself by going on a rant about this game.

On launch I see a warning about low VRAM usage, but game had textures pre-set to ultra. Past few hours I've been on high textures, and it has used around 7.8 to 8.9 GB of VRAM use. I would argue 3080 is fine for this game as long as you use a budget HMD.

I am seeing around 60-80% GPU usage at 5408x2736 (native) at a locked 120fps at 120hz. But at 2x supersample I can start any mission with max VRAM usage. Even if FPS counter says 100-110, it feels choppy.

Like any PCVR game on Quest 2, I gotta run the Oculus Debug Tool to disable Asynchronous Spacewarp and Adaptive GPU Performance Scale. Then in Alyx I gotta run -console -vconsole +vr_fidelity_level_auto 0 +vr_fidelity_level 3 to disable resolution scale feature.

Adding -nowindow will provide an enormous performance uplift by disabling Spectator Window. This allows me to run GPU at just 1.5 GHz and draw 140W while playing this game at a smooth 120.

Game has another layer of Asynchronous Spacewarp inside which is simply awful and made me want to refund it. This will arbitrarily cut a users framerate to half their refresh rate if the game thinks CPU or GPU usage is too high. Reading how setting hlvr.exe priority to high will help minimize this. Process Lasso will help remember that for me. There is no such thing as intelligent ASW in my opinion. It will still often cap fps to 60 during main menu and loading screens though.

 

[fleshconsumed]

NM

 

[igor_kavinski]

I think they need to start adding different levels of VRAM.

For high end cards, first level outside of the cache should be 12GB GDDR6X, then another 8GB of normal GDDR6, then possibly 16GB of LPDDR5X. This way, the game can avoid expensive data transfers over the PCIe bus. Next tiers could be

8/8/12
6/6/10
4/4/8
2/2/4

This sort of fast to slow RAM organization could help to keep costs down while maintaining better framerates. Thoughts?