8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

[BFG10K]

8GB

• Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
  3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
• Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
• Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
• Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
• Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
• Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
• Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
• Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
• Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
• Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
• Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
• Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
• Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
• Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
• Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Spoiler

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Spoiler

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

Spoiler

10GB / 12GB

• Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
• Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

Spoiler

1. It's the player's fault.
2. It's the reviewer's fault.
3. It's the developer's fault.
4. It's AMD's fault.
5. It's the game's fault.
6. It's the driver's fault.
7. It's a system configuration issue.
8. Wrong settings were tested.
9. Wrong area was tested.
10. Wrong games were tested.
11. 4K is irrelevant.
12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
16. It's an anomaly.
17. It's a console port.
18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

 

[kondziowy]

Yep. You can also see RTX3080 and RTX 4070Ti both loosing fps relative to 6800XT / 7900XT when switching from 1440p to 4K. Which means 10GB and 12GB is not enough anymore. And it's not the first game that shows this trend. Even DF's Alex recommends dropping textures on 3080.

 

[Shmee]

I think 8GB not being enough really depends. With a lot of games, probably most games actually, it can be made to work at 1440p and lower. Even at 4k, some games will run fine with some tweaking, particularly older games. A lot of people forget that PC games often have settings that can be adjusted in menus, and optimizing these can help with different situations and bottlenecks.

For instance, I have one of the fastest cards available, but I adjust settings manually, often tweaking certain options to lower quality to increase frame rates. I rarely ever use raytracing, currently there is just too much of a hit in most games, and I like chasing 200+ FPS for my 270Hz 1440p monitor. Of course what is acceptable in quality vs performance will depend on the individual, their game preferences, and their hardware.

That said, I agree that the memory amounts on recent Geforce cards don't make sense in comparison to the competition. The RTX 3060Ti through 3080 10GB are all in very odd positions against the RX 6700XT through 6800XT. The RTX 4080 is an improvement, but still lacks compared to the RX 7900 cards, and even the RTX 3090 before it. The 4080 also has the new connector, which for myself and some others is a no-go.

Lastly, I will say that a card such as an RX 5700XT, 6600XT, or even an RTX 2080/2070 class card is still fine for gaming at moderate settings. They have enough power in general for most games at medium to medium-high settings on 1080p, and one can always turn down settings on more demanding games if issues come up, as well as utilize DLSS or FSR. Just don't expect to turn raytracing on or use ultra settings on newer titles.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I think 8GB not being enough really depends. With a lot of games, probably most games actually, it can be made to work at 1440p and lower. Even at 4k, some games will run fine with some tweaking, particularly older games. A lot of people forget that PC games often have settings that can be adjusted in menus, and optimizing these can help with different situations and bottlenecks.

For instance, I have one of the fastest cards available, but I adjust settings manually, often tweaking certain options to lower quality to increase frame rates. I rarely ever use raytracing, currently there is just too much of a hit in most games, and I like chasing 200+ FPS for my 270Hz 1440p monitor. Of course what is acceptable in quality vs performance will depend on the individual, their game preferences, and their hardware.

That said, I agree that the memory amounts on recent Geforce cards don't make sense in comparison to the competition. The RTX 3060Ti through 3080 10GB are all in very odd positions against the RX 6700XT through 6800XT. The RTX 4080 is an improvement, but still lacks compared to the RX 7900 cards, and even the RTX 3090 before it. The 4080 also has the new connector, which for myself and some others is a no-go.

Lastly, I will say that a card such as an RX 5700XT, 6600XT, or even an RTX 2080/2070 class card is still fine for gaming at moderate settings. They have enough power in general for most games at medium to medium-high settings on 1080p, and one can always turn down settings on more demanding games if issues come up, as well as utilize DLSS or FSR. Just don't expect to turn raytracing on or use ultra settings on newer titles.

You flexing on me bruh?

I agree with almost everything you wrote. My only issue is concerning the settings. I don't think anyone is going to argue different strokes for different folks. But at the higher price tiers, there are settings you should not have to compromise on. Spending over $400 on a GPU, and not being able to use max textures; one of the least demanding and arguably, the most important visual quality improvements, at resolutions those cards would otherwise be sufficient for, is completely unacceptable to many of us.

This thread serves as a PSA. There is some excellent countering to the RTX ray tracing propaganda to be had at the same time.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

They Nvidia shills foe life

People throw shill around far too easily. In this case it feels insufficient to describing how far in Nvidia's pocket DF is.

Alex, the last segment in the Nvidia propaganda human caterpillar, was eating and excreting without even digesting. Sorry not sorry for the mental imagery this may inspire for some. This dude is the worst, so I will be using this metaphor, as it is fitting.

Some of what he is pooping out smells beyond belief. The title doesn't say it's an RTX owners guide, but that's what he gives you. As if everyone has DLSS support. What about all of those GTX owners? Since you don't acknowledge AMD GPUs exist. The Nvidia logo plastered top and center doesn't seem sus at all. Every failing of the Nvidia GPUs he tested, is excuse #5 - blame it on the game. LULZ were had when he implied the solution to every problem he thinks Capcom has with the RE games, would be fixed by making it for RTX.

The way he went after the ray tracing made me furrow my brow involuntarily. The hell was that? That was the dumbest image quality nitpicking I've seen in a good while. DF is almost as worthless as userbenchmark at this point.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Okay, take that Nvidia sponsored, but not sponsored, DF 💩 and contrast it with the following Q&A with Steve&Tim. They spend over 15 minutes on the subject of the VRAM. Video below will start at the correct time. Steve even says to pretend like AMD doesn't exist. Alex be like - "Pretend?"

 

[Spjut]

I have an RTX 2060 myself but I really wonder what all people claiming RDNA1 and RDNA2 would go extinct due to no/bad RT are thinking now.

VRAM has been quite the killer for otherwise powerful cards in the past and I wonder why people are so surprised. During the PS4 gen, the GTX 770 2GB fell victim to it. During the PS3 gen, the various 8800 cards with less than 512MB fell victim to it.

Bad optimization can be the explanation, but it doesn't excuse it.
And I think PC gamers often are too quick to say it is bad optimization. First they are complaining games are still constrained by supporting the last-gen versions, but the moment a game comes around that is targeted for the new consoles, and there possibly might be API limitations on the PC which need painful workarounds, they just say it is lazy developers and bad optimization with no hesitation.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I have an RTX 2060 myself but I really wonder what all people claiming RDNA1 and RDNA2 would go extinct due to no/bad RT are thinking now.

VRAM has been quite the killer for otherwise powerful cards in the past and I wonder why people are so surprised. During the PS4 gen, the GTX 770 2GB fell victim to it. During the PS3 gen, the various 8800 cards with less than 512MB fell victim to it.

Bad optimization can be the explanation, but it doesn't excuse it.
And I think PC gamers often are too quick to say it is bad optimization. First they are complaining games are still constrained by supporting the last-gen versions, but the moment a game comes around that is targeted for the new consoles, and there possibly might be API limitations on the PC which need painful workarounds, they just say it is lazy developers and bad optimization with no hesitation.

Great points.

The bolded really cuts to the heart of the matter. That's where the viral marketers and minions live. Going back to shortly after the turn of the century (I'd say earlier, but there were a good number of vendors in the infancy of the 90s, making it less influential IMO) it has been the go to tactic. They enter the discussions and do their best to obfuscate any failings of that brand's products. Often resorting to whataboutism as you pointed out. Meanwhile using more serious hyperbole in promoting that brand's feature set.

The rest of the reason for the bolded is good old fashioned bandwagoning. Many people are innately unhappy creatures, and when the haterade starts getting passed around, they eagerly guzzle it. Load up the war wagon boys! Or to quote the Simpsons comic book guy "I shall express my displeasure on the internet!"

For myself, it gets tiresome seeing the same tactic year after year work on the latest batch of PC gamers. Ray tracing will be a big deal some day, point conceded. However, we are nearly 5yrs in already, and most of us are still not impressed.

DLSS is the most over advertised feature I can remember. Why do I need it again. Oh yeah, that's right, because the crappy ray tracing crushed my card, and I need it to get playable frame rates. DUH! So I degrade the IQ to improve the IQ? Seems legit. DLSS should be explained as extending the useful life of the card. Not as the killer app they pimp it as. They probably avoid that conversation because they left many millions of GTX owners to drown, requiring AMD and Intel to throw them a lifeline.

It doesn't matter how hard they keep trying to spin it. History is merely repeating itself, and the low VRAM defenders are on the wrong side of it yet again.

 

[BFG10K]

A lot of people forget that PC games often have settings that can be adjusted in menus, and optimizing these can help with different situations and bottlenecks.

This isn't a case of "oh, it's normal, you just tweak PC settings like any other time!" It's actually "oh, it's totally fine a 3060 is faster than a 3080, because I can just drop the 3080's details!"

In what universe is it acceptable that a slower 3060/6700XT is able to run higher settings at better performance than a more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080?

And instead of raging against themselves for buying such garbage and raging against nVidia for ripping them off, they instead adopt the 15-step program(tm) of denial. I mean it's gotta be a buggy game, or a conspiracy against poor nVidia, amrite?

This is systematic planned obsolescence. You can clearly see nVida gently "guiding" 8GB/10GB users to pay more money to upgrade to 12GB with the 4070/4070TI. Then in 12-18 months when 12 GB won't be enough, they'll be "guided" again to upgrade to 16GB.

Meanwhile 6800 16GB users will easily get 5+ years out of it.

 

[jpiniero]

I have an RTX 2060 myself but I really wonder what all people claiming RDNA1 and RDNA2 would go extinct due to no/bad RT are thinking now.

I still expect that to happen... but VRAM might go first. Depending on how well devs can implement DirectStorage. If devs can't get parity with the consoles... then yeah VRAM requirements will shoot through the roof in no time.

 

[coercitiv]

I still expect that to happen... but VRAM might go first. Depending on how well devs can implement DirectStorage. If devs can't get parity with the consoles...

You expect RDNA2 to go extinct while RT for console games is calibrated for RDNA2 APUs?

 

[jpiniero]

You expect RDNA2 to go extinct while RT for console games is calibrated for RDNA2 APUs?

OK, maybe more RDNA1 and the lower end RDNA2.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Depending on how well devs can implement DirectStorage.

I'm kinda sick of hearing about DirectStorage. Seems lots of devs are too busy to make the necessary changes in their game engines to leverage the benefits of this technology. Or they are purposefully waiting until Dell starts shipping office PCs with minimum 5 GB/s PCIe 4.0 SSDs. Can't leave office workers out of enjoying a little after hours session of their favorite game.

 

[Tup3x]

8GB should be absolute minimum for VRAM (RTX 4050 tier cards). 12GB would be okay for RTX 4060 tier cards but after that 16GB should be minimum and considering how much RTX 4080 costs, 16 GB is rather stingy. If they would lower the prices and release RTX 4080 Ti (cut down AD102)... then I can understand it (rob the fool first).

 

[SteveGrabowski]

I think 8GB not being enough really depends. With a lot of games, probably most games actually, it can be made to work at 1440p and lower. Even at 4k, some games will run fine with some tweaking, particularly older games. A lot of people forget that PC games often have settings that can be adjusted in menus, and optimizing these can help with different situations and bottlenecks.

Which would be fine if the Nvidia 8GB cards were the budget options. But you're paying through the nose to lower settings. Couldn't believe at Black Friday people were still excited to pay $550 for an RTX 3070 when you could get the superior RX 6750 XT for $360.

 

[Shmee]

Yeah, I think that is a major issue with Nvidia's lineup in terms of memory size on different cards. For a while the AMD lineup has made a bit more sense in that regard, for instance, comparing the R9 390 to a GTX 970. 8GB vs 3.5GB(effectively). And you can go back further, with the R9 290 vs 780Ti, and 7970 vs GTX 680/770.

 

[maddie]

You expect RDNA2 to go extinct while RT for console games is calibrated for RDNA2 APUs?

I feel I'm at some strange event with all these mental gymnastics happening here.

 

[jpiniero]

The Last of Us Part I тест Old GPU/CPU | Action / FPS / TPS | TEST GPU

В данном обзоре мы представляем тест новой игры The Last of Us Part I, протестированную на старых семействах видеока

gamegpu.com

On second thought, maybe the CPU will be the first to go, if CPUs are going to need to do the asset decompression. Can't do 60 fps with a 2700X.

 

[Thunder 57]

Great points.

The bolded really cuts to the heart of the matter. That's where the viral marketers and minions live. Going back to shortly after the turn of the century (I'd say earlier, but there were a good number of vendors in the infancy of the 90s, making it less influential IMO) it has been the go to tactic. They enter the discussions and do their best to obfuscate any failings of that brand's products. Often resorting to whataboutism as you pointed out. Meanwhile using more serious hyperbole in promoting that brand's feature set.

The rest of the reason for the bolded is good old fashioned bandwagoning. Many people are innately unhappy creatures, and when the haterade starts getting passed around, they eagerly guzzle it. Load up the war wagon boys! Or to quote the Simpsons comic book guy "I shall express my displeasure on the internet!"

For myself, it gets tiresome seeing the same tactic year after year work on the latest batch of PC gamers. Ray tracing will be a big deal some day, point conceded. However, we are nearly 5yrs in already, and most of us are still not impressed.

DLSS is the most over advertised feature I can remember. Why do I need it again. Oh yeah, that's right, because the crappy ray tracing crushed my card, and I need it to get playable frame rates. DUH! So I degrade the IQ to improve the IQ? Seems legit. DLSS should be explained as extending the useful life of the card. Not as the killer app they pimp it as. They probably avoid that conversation because they left many millions of GTX owners to drown, requiring AMD and Intel to throw them a lifeline.

It doesn't matter how hard they keep trying to spin it. History is merely repeating itself, and the low VRAM defenders are on the wrong side of it yet again.

Regarding DLSS: You are forgetting that it looks better than native! The NVIDIA reddit is disgusting.

 

[Thunder 57]

Which would be fine if the Nvidia 8GB cards were the budget options. But you're paying through the nose to lower settings. Couldn't believe at Black Friday people were still excited to pay $550 for an RTX 3070 when you could get the superior RX 6750 XT for $360.

Unfortunatly, I believe you. I have seen it all too often too like fools preferring the RTX 3050 to the RX 6600. NVIDIA needs to be dropped down a peg or three.

 

[Jaskalas]

VRAM has been quite the killer for otherwise powerful cards in the past and I wonder why people are so surprised.

• NVIDIA did not typically offer more. That induces pressure to settle.
• Vast majority of people have/had 8gb or less. Today, 6gb is the most common. Perhaps we expected to be catered to.

The new consoles may have had 16gb of RAM, but that is shared. OS and game still need to share it as RAM for the CPU, in addition to the GPU's VRAM. So maybe a nice and even 50/50 split was reasoned. Not using nearly the entire thing for VRAM. The ratio of how it is shared seems ridiculous.

In addition, the need and/or the penalty for turning down settings before... was not nearly so great or so ugly as recent examples. When 1080p medium uses over 9gb.....
The worst offender, Forespoken, is said to look like a PS2 game without 10gb or more.

 

[BFG10K]

Alex @ DF running damage control.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1642109306261716993

Of course when they had access to a 3080 for an "exclusive sneak peak", they had absolutely no hesitation running ultra nightmare textures in Doom Eternal to cripple the 2080 8GB they were comparing it to.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

"This game doesn't fit into the narrative, please ignore it or better still screech 'bad PC port'".

 

[maddie]

Alex @ DF running damage control.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1642109306261716993

Of course when they had access to a 3080 for an "exclusive sneak peak", they had absolutely no hesitation running ultra nightmare textures in Doom Eternal to cripple the 2080 8GB they were comparing it to.

Please children? Perhaps he should be reminded that it was the child that exclaimed "the Emperor has no clothes".

 

[Ranulf]

Apparently it can not be a bad port (no surprise Iron Galaxy) and indicate vram issues.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Alex @ DF running damage control.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1642109306261716993

Of course when they had access to a 3080 for an "exclusive sneak peak", they had absolutely no hesitation running ultra nightmare textures in Doom Eternal to cripple the 2080 8GB they were comparing it to.

I mean terrible PC ports are a new thing aren't they? We have been spoiled by 25 years of amazing console ports to PC from Metal Gear Solid 2 to GTA IV to Dark Souls to Batman Arkham Knight to NieR Automata. Wholly unjustified to use some poorly optimized outlier as representative of PC gaming amirite?