8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

[BFG10K]

8GB

• Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
  3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
• Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
• Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
• Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
• Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
• Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
• Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
• Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
• Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
• Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
• Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
• Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
• Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
• Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
• Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Spoiler

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Spoiler

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

Spoiler

10GB / 12GB

• Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
• Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

Spoiler

1. It's the player's fault.
2. It's the reviewer's fault.
3. It's the developer's fault.
4. It's AMD's fault.
5. It's the game's fault.
6. It's the driver's fault.
7. It's a system configuration issue.
8. Wrong settings were tested.
9. Wrong area was tested.
10. Wrong games were tested.
11. 4K is irrelevant.
12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
16. It's an anomaly.
17. It's a console port.
18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

 

[psolord]

Not the most profesional review, but love this guy:

View attachment 90134
TLDR:

For raster:

1. UE5 at 4K Ultra setting, 8GB doesn't seem to be enough. For High or lower quality settings not much of a difference between 8GB and 16GB.
2. At 1440p you can play on Ultra with 8GB without issues for the most part, although it may require some tweaks.
3. At 1080p Ultra, average framerate is mostly within error margin, but 1% lows can benefit from additional vram in some games.

My take on this is 8GB is going to be fine at least until PS6/Next-gen XB are released for 1080 and 1440p gaming (maybe it will need some res scaling). 6GB is done, so RIP my 2060.

12GB seems like it's going to be fine for at least 4-6 years unless you want to play at 4K ultra, maxing all settings.

Yes, thank you. That's what I've been saying in this thread for quite some time know. And I am not even talking about maxed settings. I always use the term correct settings, because as things are, maxed settings are only for the 1000$+ cards.

 

[psolord]

Has someone said that? Because I haven't. Maybe you should argue with them about it.

The title itself, says not enough and people are supporting it, on every stupid manufactures, problem inducing test that has been shown here. Speaking for myself, I will continue the problem solving approach and not the problem causing one. Yes, settings.

 

[psolord]

Speaking of which, here are some screens from the first 1.5 hour of Avatar Frontiers of Pandora. Igor asked to see what a 4070ti can do. Well this is it. Game is run at 4k/ultra/dlss balanced. There's no other way to run it on this card. Resolution wise for 4k that is. Still it blows my mind all the time. After Plague Tale, I thought I wouldn't see such beauty. Well I was wrong.

Game is 99% gpu power limited. I think that I might have seen few instances where it was vram limited on the 4070ti and that was inconclusive. The 3060ti testing will shed more light, but ultra preset is probably out of the question, even for 1080p. Maybe with dlss. We'll see.

The game uses direct storage heavily. I am seeing casually loading values of hundres of MB/sec. I have a 1.2 hours vid which I will post later, since people on this thread do not like 30sec runs....

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Also here is DF's piece of AFOP. The game is an ode to PC gaming.

 

[In2Photos]

I got Avatar the other day. I jumped right in and started playing. I haven't checked any settings. The game looks great! I play at 1080p and the frame rate is uncapped. I typically see over 100 fps. I also noticed that while playing the GPU is using 14GB of vram consistently.

 

[AtenRa]

Avatar can use more than 12GB even at 1440p native ultra

RX7800XT
Core i7 14700KF

https://i.ibb.co/qBQ7DGk/1440p-Native-Ultra.png

 

[mikeymikec]

The title itself, says not enough

Which isn't the same as 'useless'. This shouldn't need pointing out to you, but apparently it does.

 

[Mopetar]

Which isn't the same as 'useless'. This shouldn't need pointing out to you, but apparently it does.

It's been tried already in this thread. Many times by many different people.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I also noticed that while playing the GPU is using 14GB of vram consistently.

nGreedia doing something in the drivers or developers using lesser textures for GeFarce cards?

 

[jpiniero]

I have reservations -
Increased texture pop-in is not an acceptable compromise. W1z thinks so, I am among those that don't.

It's better than stuttering.

It's been tried already in this thread. Many times by many different people.

VRAM is Free Real Estate. That doesn't mean all of the memory is actively being used in a scene. OTOH, since GPUs still don't have even parity with the consoles on asset streaming, it's painful to bring stuff in.

 

[igor_kavinski]

nGreedia doing something in the drivers or developers using lesser textures for GeFarce cards?

Also, could this mean that AMD drivers are aggressively doing some sort of texture caching with the extra VRAM?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

It's better than stuttering.

Getting punched the head is better than getting liver kicked. Something sucking less than something else still sucks.

 

[Thunder 57]

Far from it. I am just juggling 100 things at the same time. Forums are not a real time affair, last time I checked.

I am only saying, that gpu power is more important. For example 4070>>>>4060ti 16GB. By the time more vram is truly required, the cards that had it will have run out of steam anyway.

If I see any REAL problems with 8GB cards, I will admit it.

Are you sure? I was going to ask if you had a full time job, because this seems to be it. You are putting in a lot of work into people who's opinions will never sway.

 

[psolord]

Avatar can use more than 12GB even at 1440p native ultra

RX7800XT
Core i7 14700KF

https://i.ibb.co/qBQ7DGk/1440p-Native-Ultra.png

Wtf there's a benchmark? lol I didn't even see it. I'll get right to it.

Can you post your result at 1440p/Ultra? I can crossreference my 4070ti when I get my results. Also there's an unobtainium mode that get's unlocked with -unlockmaxsettings. You can test with that, to see what it does to the vram.

However usage and addressing are too different things in gpu vram indicator. I have seen a few games go above 8GBs at 1080p on the 4070ti, yet they run fine on the 3060ti.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Also there's an unobtainium mode that get's unlocked with -unlockmaxsettings.

Did you try that? What happened?

 

[psolord]

Which isn't the same as 'useless'. This shouldn't need pointing out to you, but apparently it does.

It's been tried already in this thread. Many times by many different people.

The whole vibe of the thread, is that they are essentially useless. If your wife tells you, you are not enough, I don't know how that would translate for your usefulness factor.

(And no I don't have a personal experience, because people are getting personal as it seems)

 

[psolord]

Are you sure? I was going to ask if you had a full time job, because this seems to be it. You are putting in a lot of work into people who's opinions will never sway.

Yes. More than full time, thank you.

We are just having a argumentative discussion here sir. We are all fortified behind our opinions, that much is true. You say yours, I say mine and life goes on.

 

[psolord]

Did you try that? What happened?

Didn't try, because I saw that 4k/dlss balanced/ultra is the best the 4070ti can do and I wanted to get into the game fast. It seems these settings are tailored exactly for the 4070ti. It isn't a matter of vram usage. It is already at its gpu power max. However it does have an academic interest, so I will give it a look.

They say it goes to 18.5GB vram usage here for 4k.

New Avatar PC Game Has a Hidden 'Unobtainium' Graphics Setting Targeting Future GPUs

Anyone without an RTX 4090 or Radeon 7900 XTX should not even attempt it.

www.extremetech.com

 

[AtenRa]

From another user ,

Wtf there's a benchmark? lol I didn't even see it. I'll get right to it.

Can you post your result at 1440p/Ultra? I can crossreference my 4070ti when I get my results. Also there's an unobtainium mode that get's unlocked with -unlockmaxsettings. You can test with that, to see what it does to the vram.

However usage and addressing are too different things in gpu vram indicator. I have seen a few games go above 8GBs at 1080p on the 4070ti, yet they run fine on the 3060ti.

Thats not my results but from a forum user , he posted the following video as well , you can clearly see that even with FSR Ultra Quality the game uses more than 12GB at 1440p. There are two readings, the first is Vram allocation (14GB) and the second is Vram usage (12GB) .

 

[psolord]

I did give it a benchmark run with Geforce Now. It assigned me a RTX 3060. It run like crap, lol. Here is the benchmark result at 1080p, high, no upscaler.



And this is the benchmark at 1080p Ultra no upscaler



Gamegpu says 40fps for 1080p Ultra, so this is within margin of error. If anyone has a 3060 and can test, let us know.

If you are wondering what all this has to do with the vram thread, I will explain right away. These are the runs of gamegpu at 1080p and 1440p.




The 4070ti is a 12GB card, as is the 3060. The 4070ti is 2.5X faster than the 3060 in both resolutions. So as I usually say about 8GB cards, that not all are the same, the same is true for the 12GB cards. One question that arises, is if you accept the 3060 as a 300$ card, how much should a card being 2.5 times faster cost? And it's not just the straight 1:1 comparison. It's the actual getting games from unplayability to playability metric, that carries the most value.


Also as I promised, here is my run of Avatar. Non monetized. 4k/dlss balanced. The best the 4070ti can do. Very playable, very beautiful. Minimal pop in, in accordance to what the ultra preset does, as shown by Digital Foundry. This only goes away with the unobtainium mode. No missing textures from what I can see either. On what is, the most beautiful game to date on the PC. Also keep in mind this one was recorded with shadowplay, so 10-20W went to the recording. It runs a bit better without it.

This guy did a comparison of the performance impact various settings have. And also a low/optimized/ultra comparison. You will be surprised to see that low and ultra have the same vram usage, timestamped, hmmmm...

 

[coercitiv]

The 4070ti is a 12GB card, as is the 3060. The 4070ti is 2.5X faster than the 3060 in both resolutions. So as I usually say about 8GB cards, that not all are the same, the same is true for the 12GB cards. One question that arises, is if you accept the 3060 as a 300$ card, how much should a card being 2.5 times faster cost? And it's not just the straight 1:1 comparison. It's the actual getting games from unplayability to playability metric, that carries the most value.

The two cards are from different generations. Had they been from the same generation, then the price could indeed follow the performance curve (assuming a good perf baseline at $300), but with different gens the price increase must always be considerably lower than the performance bump. If that were not the case, prices would spiral out of control in a matter of years.

Case in point, if we consider $800 is a just price for a card that is 2.5X faster than a $300 card, then get ready to pay $2000 in a few years for the next 2.5x increase, and then $5000 for your next upgrade. In two decades a new video card would cost as much as a home.

 

[mikeymikec]

The whole vibe of the thread, is that they are essentially useless. If your wife tells you, you are not enough, I don't know how that would translate for your usefulness factor.

(And no I don't have a personal experience, because people are getting personal as it seems)

I think your comparison between marital relationship problems and owning a graphics card is particularly ill-suited, but it does explain your perspective throughout this thread.

 

[psolord]

I think your comparison between marital relationship problems and owning a graphics card is particularly ill-suited, but it does explain your perspective throughout this thread.

Well, you are all behaving like you are getting married to the damned cards, so it was only a fair comparison.

English is not my primary tongue, but when I read "not enough", nothing good comes to mind.

In any case, in Avatar we have another non vram catastrophe inducing winner. The game is primarily gpu power limited, as was Starfield, Alan Wake II, Ark, Forza, the hyper GOTY Baldur's Gate 3 and all UE5 games to date. The narrative of this thread, falls short, for all important super heavy games. No lets see Deliver us Mars at 1440p maxed plus RT, for 8GB cards please .

 

[psolord]

Anyhoo, here are my Avatar benchmark results, if anyone wants to compare with a whatever vram card. I will not have access to the 3060ti for a few more days. Also the stupid game does not run on non AVX2 cpus, so I cannot test my lower cards.









At 1080p ultra, the 4070ti is three times faster than the 3060 at geforce now, which cannot be right. I am guessing the geforce now cards are not at full power.

 

[nurturedhate]

but when I read "not enough", nothing good comes to mind.

Someone broke your heart and you're taking it out on people wanting slightly better value for their money?

 

[Aapje]

Well, you are all behaving like you are getting married to the damned cards, so it was only a fair comparison.

With modern marriage ethics and stagnating price/performance of GPUs, marrying a video card may actually result in a longer-lasting partnership (and a GPU is still way cheaper than a divorce).