8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

[BFG10K]

8GB

• Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
  3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
• Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
• Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
• Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
• Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
• Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
• Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
• Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
• Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
• Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
• Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
• Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
• Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
• Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
• Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Spoiler

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Spoiler

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

Spoiler

10GB / 12GB

• Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
• Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

Spoiler

1. It's the player's fault.
2. It's the reviewer's fault.
3. It's the developer's fault.
4. It's AMD's fault.
5. It's the game's fault.
6. It's the driver's fault.
7. It's a system configuration issue.
8. Wrong settings were tested.
9. Wrong area was tested.
10. Wrong games were tested.
11. 4K is irrelevant.
12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
16. It's an anomaly.
17. It's a console port.
18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

 

[igor_kavinski]

Entry level? The 4060 Ti firmly midrange

For a serious gamer, that's entry level and developers will make sure that this card runs their game well enough. Which would mean they would need to sacrifice the quality/resolution of textures leading to adverse impact on the visual fidelity of the game's environments.

Imagine someone saving up money for several weeks or months and upgrading from a 3050 8GB to 4060 Ti 8GB. The faster card can't magically store higher quality textures. So all that gamer gets is more fps and maybe fake ones at that with more latency.

8GB has held back the future for far too long now. It needs to be relegated to history, like the lower capacities before it.

 

[MrTeal]

For a serious gamer, that's entry level and developers will make sure that this card runs their game well enough. Which would mean they would need to sacrifice the quality/resolution of textures leading to adverse impact on the visual fidelity of the game's environments.

Imagine someone saving up money for several weeks or months and upgrading from a 3050 8GB to 4060 Ti 8GB. The faster card can't magically store higher quality textures. So all that gamer gets is more fps and maybe fake ones at that with more latency.

8GB has held back the future for far too long now. It needs to be relegated to history, like the lower capacities before it.

"Entry level for the serious gamer" is midrange. The 3050 you talk about is an entry level card, and it is really fine having 8GB. If you're buying a $220 GPU, it's understandable you're going to have to turn some things down. When you're firmly in the $400 midrange and you're having texture pop issues or running out of VRAM when you'd otherwise be able to play at those settings it's more of a kick in the teeth. Doubly so if you're moving up from the 1070 you bought for <$400 7 years ago that already had 8GB.

 

[psolord]

This is Unreal Engine 5.3

The future we deserve but denied to us thanks to being limited to 8GB at the entry level.

Unreal Engine 5 in general, has far greater issues with gpu power, than it has with video ram. I have shown some examples between my own 6600 vs the 3060ti. Both 8GBs but nothing alike. And the difference is even worse if you add the 1070 in the mix. Video ram has very little to do with it, if at all.

The most recent example of that, is the UE5 The Banishers game. These are the 1080p and 1440p results.


The 4060ti is beating everything with 8GB easily, as well as some cards with way more vram and is on par with the 16GB 256bit rx 6800.

 

[psolord]

Entry level? The 4060 Ti firmly midrange; you could buy a Series X at Walmart before the holidays for less than you can buy an 8GB 4060 Ti.

And?

You would still play Avatar at 720p, Starfield at 30fps and Spiderman, God of War, Horizon Zero Dawm, Ratchet and Clank @0 fps. Also you would have zero AV1 capabilities and zero gpgpu capabilities.

Some of you guys really need to get a clue, when comparing limited, subscription infused products, with the limitless capabilities of PC parts.

 

[igor_kavinski]

The 4060ti is beating everything with 8GB easily, as well as some cards with way more vram and is on par with the 16GB 256bit rx 6800.

Those graphs don't show what the game engine may be doing to the graphics quality to fit everything in 8GB.

 

[psolord]

Those graphs don't show what the game engine may be doing to the graphics quality to fit everything in 8GB.

They arent doing anything. I test them myself as well. No UE5 game ever missed anything on my 3060ti. Other than framerate that is, due to gpu power.

Here is the Banisher vram usage on a few video cards, at all resolutions.



I tested the game as well. No time for vids though. What I saw, is that the game is streaming assets from storage all the time. It could be using a sort of direct storage or a UE5 equivalent, I don't know. However that's how they save on vram.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Difference in VRAM usage between low and ultra is roughly 2GB. Game is clearly designed for consoles with PC as an afterthought. It's not really pushing even a 1650.

 

[MrTeal]

And?

You would still play Avatar at 720p, Starfield at 30fps and Spiderman, God of War, Horizon Zero Dawm, Ratchet and Clank @0 fps. Also you would have zero AV1 capabilities and zero gpgpu capabilities.

Some of you guys really need to get a clue, when comparing limited, subscription infused products, with the limitless capabilities of PC parts.

Not sure what your hostility is about. I'm just saying if a single card costs more than a whole console, that's no longer an entry level card. That's historically been the case and it still is. $400 might be in the lower end of midrange these days but it's certainly not entry level.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

And round and round we go...

 

[DAPUNISHER]

And round and round we go...

In my case just round. Because I'd have to click on "show ignored content" for the other round.

I am way past being willing to deal with the gaslighting, astroturfing, misinformation, and logical fallacies that polluted this thread.

 

[BFG10K]

In my case just round. Because I'd have to click on "show ignored content" for the other round.

Yep, you might say the ignore feature is the "correct setting" for this thread.

"Oh thank you, Papa Jensen, for the privilege to defend NV for free on the tech forum. I promise to smite the unholy disbelievers and defend the 8GB, m'lady!"

 

[Thunder 57]

Yep, you might say the ignore feature is the "correct setting" for this thread.

"Oh thank you, Papa Jensen, for the privilege to defend NV for free on the tech forum. I promise to smite the unholy disbelievers and defend the 8GB, m'lady!"

You had me at "correct setting".

 

[igor_kavinski]

Yep, you might say the ignore feature is the "correct setting" for this thread.

"Oh thank you, Papa Jensen, for the privilege to defend NV for free on the tech forum. I promise to smite the unholy disbelievers and defend the 8GB, m'lady!"

Jensen to his fans: Let Papa Jensen show you some good time with 8 GB!

 

[DeathReborn]

Not sure what your hostility is about. I'm just saying if a single card costs more than a whole console, that's no longer an entry level card. That's historically been the case and it still is. $400 might be in the lower end of midrange these days but it's certainly not entry level.

1983, the year of the Famicom at $180 or the humble IBM Monochrome Video Card for a measly $1,000 ($3,000+ today).

 

[coercitiv]

Not sure what your hostility is about. I'm just saying if a single card costs more than a whole console, that's no longer an entry level card.

You also said "texture pop issues", so you got a warning shot.

 

[Mopetar]

Entry level? The 4060 Ti firmly midrange; you could buy a Series X at Walmart before the holidays for less than you can buy an 8GB 4060 Ti.

The card is entry-level hardware for gamers, but the price is is anything but.

In my case just round. Because I'd have to click on "show ignored content" for the other round.

I'm a glutton for punishment, so second verse same as the first. "Memory the 8 GB, I am, Memory the 8 GB, I am, I am!"

 

[MrTeal]

The card is entry-level hardware for gamers, but the price is is anything but.



I'm a glutton for punishment, so second verse same as the first. "Memory the 8 GB, I am, Memory the 8 GB, I am, I am!"

I got installed on the system next door, it's had 7 cards before.
And every one's been 8 gigabytes, never had 12 or 16.

 

[psolord]

Not sure what your hostility is about. I'm just saying if a single card costs more than a whole console, that's no longer an entry level card. That's historically been the case and it still is. $400 might be in the lower end of midrange these days but it's certainly not entry level.

I did not disagree about the non entry level card characterization, because it certainly is not. It's more powerful than people think, but all they focus on, is 128bit bus and 8GBs vram. However, it still outperforms most 8GB cards anyway and a few with more vram too.

My hostility comes from the comparison, with an inferior and limited gaming solution, in order to come to the plain conclusion that the 4060ti is just expensive. Weigh all the pluses and minuses of a card that is designed to work on the best and most complicated ecosystem and then conclude how expensive it is.

 

[psolord]

Difference in VRAM usage between low and ultra is roughly 2GB. Game is clearly designed for consoles with PC as an afterthought. It's not really pushing even a 1650.

Yeah that's what usually happens with UE5 games, in terms of vram usage. That's why I say UE5 is mostly vram independent.

As for the afterthought part, the game runs at dynamic 1440p on the gen9 consoles, at who knows what settings AND still has framedrops. It can scale waaaayy above than that, on the PC. That's not what an afterthought is.

 

[coercitiv]

My hostility comes from the comparison, with an inferior and limited gaming solution

He was justifying 4060 Ti as a mid-range card by showing it costs more than a console, and thus can only be mid-range. There was no comparison of features, compute or overall potential between the two.

Meanwhile, @MrTeal does not need to prove to you the card is expensive even in the best and most complicated ecosystem, you've already said so yourself:

Personally I never suggested to anyone to go get a 4060ti 8GB, since that seems to be the main focus of this thread. But this really belongs to the "all Nvidia cards have become more expensive and some AMD ones too". Maybe the acceptable price should go on the title and I am only half joking here.
[...]
It's really sad that the 4060ti's price was so poorly chosen by Nvidia though. This card is a technological marvel. I mean they cut the 3060ti's bus in half and still get the same performance give or take? That's bonkers! For me it should be 100$ cheaper and that's it.

 

[psolord]

Yep, you might say the ignore feature is the "correct setting" for this thread.

"Oh thank you, Papa Jensen, for the privilege to defend NV for free on the tech forum. I promise to smite the unholy disbelievers and defend the 8GB, m'lady!"

What do you mean "for free"? How do you think I got the 4070ti?

Hey at least I am not getting paid any more, that's something....

I could equally say, thank you miss Lisa for the privilege to start an 8GB=bad thread, while I use corner cases and actively search to create problems, to prove my point, while there are clear solutions.

Still here we are, 2024, 8GB cards are very much workable. The Banisher, Skull and Bones, Helldivers 2, The Inquisitor, Outcast, Tekken 8, Suicide Squad, Ready or Not, Like a Dragon Infinite Wealth and even semi indies played by the millions, like Palworld ALL RUN FINE. Ok there are some performance problems but they are absolutely tied to gpu performance, not vram.

But noooo, let's see how Deliver Us Mars run at 1440p maxed+RT, that 13 people played, to draw our concrete conclusions, shall we?

 

[psolord]

He was justifying 4060 Ti as a mid-range card by showing it costs more than a console, and thus can only be mid-range. There was no comparison of features, compute or overall potential between the two.

Meanwhile, @MrTeal does not need to prove to you the card is expensive even in the best and most complicated ecosystem, you've already said so yourself:

I did not say it was cheap. I said to not do stupid comparisons, between different ecosystems. There are other more vfm cards on the PC, that are on the same ecosystem. Still aside from the price, it is not a bad card. Compared to a console, all things considered, it is heaps better.

 

[Ranulf]

Still here we are, 2024, 8GB cards are very much workable. The Banisher, Skull and Bones, Helldivers 2, The Inquisitor, Outcast, Tekken 8, Suicide Squad, Ready or Not, Like a Dragon Infinite Wealth and even semi indies played by the millions, like Palworld ALL RUN FINE. Ok there are some performance problems but they are absolutely tied to gpu performance, not vram.

Yet even more justification that current cards are overpriced dreck, especially the "midrange" that costs $500-800+. At least my 2060Super will get me sub $100/yr cost now. Somehow I doubt a 4060/7600 will nor a $600 4070 Super.

 

[SolidQ]

Optimization of the year. Poor 2xxx series

Spoiler

 

[igor_kavinski]

Optimization of the year. Poor 2xxx series

Maybe these GPUs have been hung out to dry in the drivers?