8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

[BFG10K]

8GB

• Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
  3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
• Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
• Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
• Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
• Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
• Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
• Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
• Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
• Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
• Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
• Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
• Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
• Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
• Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
• Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Spoiler

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Spoiler

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

Spoiler

10GB / 12GB

• Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
• Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

Spoiler

1. It's the player's fault.
2. It's the reviewer's fault.
3. It's the developer's fault.
4. It's AMD's fault.
5. It's the game's fault.
6. It's the driver's fault.
7. It's a system configuration issue.
8. Wrong settings were tested.
9. Wrong area was tested.
10. Wrong games were tested.
11. 4K is irrelevant.
12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
16. It's an anomaly.
17. It's a console port.
18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

 

[DAPUNISHER]

The Last of Us Part I тест Old GPU/CPU | Action / FPS / TPS | TEST GPU

В данном обзоре мы представляем тест новой игры The Last of Us Part I, протестированную на старых семействах видеока

gamegpu.com

On second thought, maybe the CPU will be the first to go, if CPUs are going to need to do the asset decompression. Can't do 60 fps with a 2700X.

This is what to expect from PS5 ports; Spiderman made it obvious over a year and a half ago. When the CPU load webhead produced was shown, many predictably responded with the knee jerk reaction "bad port!". The reality turned out to be that it scales impressively well. But due to the lack of the dedicated hardware decompressor the PS5 has, on PC the CPU has to do it. The load is of course, further increased when adding ray tracing.

A 10400 couldn't manage 60 in Spiderman with RT on. The Jaguar based consoles are no longer the target, and it shows. Nor do we have a decade of Intel dominance resulting in stagnant CPU core count and performance on PC anymore. Many of us advised those asking about which CPU for new builds, to spec it with one that was at least on par with what the 9th gen consoles have. Then the Spiderman devs made it clear that due to not having that dedicated decompressor, higher system overhead, and increased visuals possible on PC, you'd need one even more powerful than the PS5's. That's without considering discord, recording, streaming, browsers open, spotify, etc.

On topic: While I think the Steam survey is broken; I am now 8 fresh windows installs without it asking me to submit the survey on AMD. 2 for 2 requests on my Nvidia builds. It's enough to pull out my tinfoil hat. I am doing a Intel laptop with a 1050ti this weekend; we'll see how it goes. I am going to do it through a VPN this time. Perhaps installing Steam so many times from the same I.P. is responsible for the lack of surveys? Anyways, how this relates to the topic: The RTX 3060 skyrocketed to the top of the Steam survey. I doubt more than a very small percentage bought the 8GB version. Which would demonstrate that the 12GB of ram is now the key selling point.

If I ignore the survey numbers and extrapolate Mind Factories sales figures to include the U.S. RDNA2 is selling much better than Steam would indicate.

 

[Panino Manino]

Alex @ DF running damage control.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1642109306261716993

Of course when they had access to a 3080 for an "exclusive sneak peak", they had absolutely no hesitation running ultra nightmare textures in Doom Eternal to cripple the 2080 8GB they were comparing it to.

The audacity of this german...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we see this repeating every few years? We get to a point in the "generation" when these channels make huge benchmarks comparing how all cards are holding up, and it always shows Nvidia cards with less RAM dying unless you decrease quality while the AMD equivalents remain unaffected.
I think it's the third time since CCN1 days.

 

[sandorski]

This is what to expect from PS5 ports; Spiderman made it obvious over a year and a half ago. When the CPU load webhead produced was shown, many predictably responded with the knee jerk reaction "bad port!". The reality turned out to be that it scales impressively well. But due to the lack of the dedicated hardware decompressor the PS5 has, on PC the CPU has to do it. The load is of course, further increased when adding ray tracing.

A 10400 couldn't manage 60 in Spiderman with RT on. The Jaguar based consoles are no longer the target, and it shows. Nor do we have a decade of Intel dominance resulting in stagnant CPU core count and performance on PC anymore. Many of us advised those asking about which CPU for new builds, to spec it with one that was at least on par with what the 9th gen consoles have. Then the Spiderman devs made it clear that due to not having that dedicated decompressor, higher system overhead, and increased visuals possible on PC, you'd need one even more powerful than the PS5's. That's without considering discord, recording, streaming, browsers open, spotify, etc.

On topic: While I think the Steam survey is broken; I am now 8 fresh windows installs without it asking me to submit the survey on AMD. 2 for 2 requests on my Nvidia builds. It's enough to pull out my tinfoil hat. I am doing a Intel laptop with a 1050ti this weekend; we'll see how it goes. I am going to do it through a VPN this time. Perhaps installing Steam so many times from the same I.P. is responsible for the lack of surveys? Anyways, how this relates to the topic: The RTX 3060 skyrocketed to the top of the Steam survey. I doubt more than a very small percentage bought the 8GB version. Which would demonstrate that the 12GB of ram is now the key selling point.

If I ignore the survey numbers and extrapolate Mind Factories sales figures to include the U.S. RDNA2 is selling much better than Steam would indicate.

I wonder if Drivers could trigger the Survey by initializing a voluntary submission or something?

 

[Ranulf]

I can't remember the last time I got a steam survey to show up but it was probably not long after a fresh install on the intel/nvidia set up. I just got a new survey request on that machine 3 days ago. So, figure twice in 2.5 years for that one system. I doubt I got it more than once, maybe twice on the old fx8350/rx480 and 570 system over 6+ years of use.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

I love this description of TLOU from reddit:

This game uses 10gb of VRAM + 12GB of RAM + 12 CPU cores to render an empty werehouse with 3 glass bottles you can pick up.

 

[coercitiv]

This game uses 10gb of VRAM + 12GB of RAM + 12 CPU cores to render an empty werehouse with 3 glass bottles you can pick up.

Wait until Diablo 4 comes out, the game loves to allocate all VRAM and then make use of 20GB+ of RAM as well. We cannot speak about performance just yet as the beta was riddled with issues (and hotfixes), but it is an open world game and will happily eat memory resources for buffering.

PS: until the game comes out I'll just leave a screenshot from the in-game menu description for Texture Quality.

 

[igor_kavinski]

One more 8GB back breaking feature? http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=threads/directx-12-now-allows-the-cpu-to-directly-access-vram.2611683/

Compared to cards that can keep all required data in VRAM and reduce dependence on system RAM and its lower bandwidth, 8GB cards may suffer further in games that implement the DirectX Agility SDK.

 

[WelshBloke]

You can call it a bad port (TLOU) but I'm running it at 3440x1440 ultra settings and I'm getting a steady mid 80s FPS. It looks fantastic. Its a bit of an interactive movie though.
Its sucking up 15 and a bit gb of vram and my system ram usage is about 32 gb so it is a hog but it runs fine.

 

[amenx]

UE5 developer talks vram usage in new games.

44:16 What do Developers need more VRAM for?
47:35 Are 8GB Graphics Cards running out of time?
1:03:20 What do Nvidia Engineers think about 8GB GPUs? What about RTX IO?

Never mind the continual interruptions of the MLID guy.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I enjoyed the game engine talk. Reinforces what the guy from Massive Damage said.

9th gen having access to 12GB for the GPU is a key point. That is sounding like the new minimum to enjoy the presentation the way some studios intend you to. Probably better to have 16GB on PC to play it safe.

32GB of DDR as the standard for new and upcoming AAA gaming appears to be upon us too.

On another note: Looks like all the 30 series crashing in Last of Us was an Nvidia driver issue. https://feedback.naughtydog.com/hc/en-us/articles/14590807776020

Sort of LMAO worthy since many owners are so gaslit about how great Nvidia drivers are, that they immediately blamed the game. I can assure you that unlike remembering every bug they ever had that one time they tried AMD. This will be purged from memory, and they will tell you in 6 months how Geforce has always been trouble free for them. 😜

 

[DAPUNISHER]

You can call it a bad port (TLOU) but I'm running it at 3440x1440 ultra settings and I'm getting a steady mid 80s FPS. It looks fantastic. Its a bit of an interactive movie though.
Its sucking up 15 and a bit gb of vram and my system ram usage is about 32 gb so it is a hog but it runs fine.

Thanks for the feedback. It syncs with what I am reading elsewhere.

These new games are exposing PCs underspec'd for 9th gen ports. Don't have enough CPU IPC and threads, VRAM, and DDR? Enjoy your last gen or worse experience with new titles.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

LULZ

PCMR has a lot of members and views, maybe the narrative will finally change. Yeah, and maybe I'm a Chinese jet pilot.

 

[blckgrffn]

LULZ

PCMR has a lot of members and views, maybe the narrative will finally change. Yeah, and maybe I'm a Chinese jet pilot.

Not Nvidias fault, clearly. They are so big and so important that all games must cater to their hardware design decisions. That will be RT and low res textures for everyone, by default.

Games exclusive to new consoles are going to use those as the baseline as there tens of millions of them in use and are a standard config.

PC ports are just going to get yeeted out by third parties adapting them to PCs and you’re going to want greater than console specs to do run them without issue history tells us.

12+ GB of vram on a mid range card now shouldn’t be that hard, right? AMD has solid options at less than $400, and Intel is even lurking there.

The upside is that this Gen of consoles will likely be a baseline until nearly 2030, so getting a midrange PC with better than Zen 2 8 cores and 12 GB or more of vram along with a fast storage drive to last 5+ years doesn’t seem that crazy either, but Nvidia seems intent on making it difficult.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Not Nvidias fault, clearly. They are so big and so important that all games must cater to their hardware design decisions. That will be RT and low res textures for everyone, by default.

Games exclusive to new consoles are going to use those as the baseline as there tens of millions of them in use and are a standard config.

PC ports are just going to get yeeted out by third parties adapting them to PCs and you’re going to want greater than console specs to do run them without issue history tells us.

12+ GB of vram on a mid range card now shouldn’t be that hard, right? AMD has solid options at less than $400, and Intel is even lurking there.

The upside is that this Gen of consoles will likely be a baseline until nearly 2030, so getting a midrange PC with better than Zen 2 8 cores and 12 GB or more of vram along with a fast storage drive to last 5+ years doesn’t seem that crazy either, but Nvidia seems intent on making it difficult.

I'd laugh about that first line, but after listening to DF (this abbreviation is a double entendre btw. Guess the second one 😈 ) Alex imply every "problem" with RE games would be fixed by making them so he is happy with how they run on a 2070 Super, it ain't funny.

Gordon wasn't available for the Full Nerd podcast, so hipster was hosting. It was awkward listening to him and the other 2 contributors trying to damage control for Nvidia and repeat outdated info to bolster it. I haven't decided if they have failed to catch up on the newest happenings, or intentionally shilling and gaslighting for dollars.

The one dude used the tired talking point about how it's fine for 8GB on 1080. And most those cards don't have the compute to handle more ram anyways. When he comes out from under that rock he is going to discover that texturers are the most important visual and cost little in the way of performance now. It was the same lame argument used to justify cards like the 1060 3GB. His other suggestion was turn settings down; where have I heard that before? Oh yeah, it's all on the 15 excuses list of the OP.

 

[AtenRa]

Excellent video for game developing, Vram, optimizations etc etc.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Excellent video for game developing, Vram, optimizations etc etc.

Yup, post 509 links to the relevant parts timestamps.

While we are linking to MLID, I will make an observation. For all the hate he understandably gets for fake leaks and fairy tales; this is what he does well. Have on guests that educate casuals like me.

 

[AtenRa]

Yup, post 509 links to the relevant parts timestamps.

While we are linking to MLID, I will make an observation. For all the hate he understandably gets for fake leaks and fairy tales; this is what he does well. Have on guests that educate casuals like me.

oups, for some reason I missed that post

 

[SteveGrabowski]

You can call it a bad port (TLOU) but I'm running it at 3440x1440 ultra settings and I'm getting a steady mid 80s FPS. It looks fantastic. Its a bit of an interactive movie though.
Its sucking up 15 and a bit gb of vram and my system ram usage is about 32 gb so it is a hog but it runs fine.

What system are you running? My performance at 1440p high but with depth of field disabled (I hate the effect) is pretty disappointing just playing through the opening level on an i5-12400F + 2x8GB DDR4-3200 + RX 6700 XT. Don't know if it's the upgrade from 1.0.6 to 1.0.7 that caused it or if it was updating my drivers from the March 24th release to the April 3rd one, but I have lost a lot of performance from doing those two upgrades. On 1.0.6 with the older drivers the performance wasn't too bad, mostly 48-55 fps, so I could just turn on the 50 fps frame cap and be good thanks to FreeSync. But the game was unplayable for me because of a bug in how it handled input from XBox controllers, specifically the thumbsticks randomly reading as zeroed out per the 1.0.7 patch notes. Now in 1.0.7 with the new drivers that has been fixed but my performance has dropped hard to mostly 35-55 fps and there is one spot where the framerate always drops to like 2 fps that was fine in 1.0.6.

 

[WelshBloke]

What system are you running? My performance at 1440p high but with depth of field disabled (I hate the effect) is pretty disappointing just playing through the opening level on an i5-12400F + 2x8GB DDR4-3200 + RX 6700 XT. Don't know if it's the upgrade from 1.0.6 to 1.0.7 that caused it or if it was updating my drivers from the March 24th release to the April 3rd one, but I have lost a lot of performance from doing those two upgrades. On 1.0.6 with the older drivers the performance wasn't too bad, mostly 48-55 fps, so I could just turn on the 50 fps frame cap and be good thanks to FreeSync. But the game was unplayable for me because of a bug in how it handled input from XBox controllers, specifically the thumbsticks randomly reading as zeroed out per the 1.0.7 patch notes. Now in 1.0.7 with the new drivers that has been fixed but my performance has dropped hard to mostly 35-55 fps and there is one spot where the framerate always drops to like 2 fps that was fine in 1.0.6.

5800X3D, a 6950XT, and 64gb of low latency RAM.
I was using a mouse and keyboard, I'm not good with controllers! 😆

 

[SteveGrabowski]

5800X3D, a 6950XT, and 64gb of low latency RAM.
I was using a mouse and keyboard, I'm not good with controllers! 😆

Hmmm, I see a lot of people complaining about the mouse controls and Naughty Dog said they couldn't fix it in the last update and were pushing it off until later because the fix introduced other bugs.

Also are you on the newest drivers? If not I wouldn't upgrade them if you're not noticing a loss of performance from the update to 1.0.7 from 1.0.6.

 

[WelshBloke]

Hmmm, I see a lot of people complaining about the mouse controls and Naughty Dog said they couldn't fix it in the last update and were pushing it off until later because the fix introduced other bugs.

Also are you on the newest drivers? If not I wouldn't upgrade them if you're not noticing a loss of performance from the update to 1.0.7 from 1.0.6.

I haven't put a load of time into it, just to see how it runs really. I'm enjoying FarCry5 at the moment, I think that's more my sort of game (I'm catching up on a lot of games now I have new hardware).
I think that I'm on the newest drivers.

 

[Ranulf]

Yup, post 509 links to the relevant parts timestamps.

While we are linking to MLID, I will make an observation. For all the hate he understandably gets for fake leaks and fairy tales; this is what he does well. Have on guests that educate casuals like me.

I think it is his ego that ruins him in his job. You see it with some of his commentary in interviews where he pontificates too much instead of letting his guests talk more.

 

[sniffin]

I think it is his ego that rins him in his job. You see it with some of his commentary in interviews where he pontificates too much instead of letting his guests talk more.

I think it's related to amateur YouTube 'journalism'. This guy got to where he is by making things up so he honed bullshit artistry skills, not journalistic technique.

 

[CakeMonster]

Ah, so that was why the post was empty on my side. I think its a bit sad that we're so starved for hardware news and tech discussion that several subforums here are infested with his BS. I'd rather tune out then. There has to be better channels or podcasts dealing with these topics, no?

 

[DeathReborn]

Yup, post 509 links to the relevant parts timestamps.

While we are linking to MLID, I will make an observation. For all the hate he understandably gets for fake leaks and fairy tales; this is what he does well. Have on guests that educate casuals like me.

How are the subtitles? His voice just hurts my brain so could only watch on mute with subtitles.