8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

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BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
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8GB
Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.
Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:
Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

10GB / 12GB

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.
  1. It's the player's fault.
  2. It's the reviewer's fault.
  3. It's the developer's fault.
  4. It's AMD's fault.
  5. It's the game's fault.
  6. It's the driver's fault.
  7. It's a system configuration issue.
  8. Wrong settings were tested.
  9. Wrong area was tested.
  10. Wrong games were tested.
  11. 4K is irrelevant.
  12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
  13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
  14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
  15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
  16. It's an anomaly.
  17. It's a console port.
  18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
  19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
  20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
  21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.
According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!
 
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Mopetar

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Jan 31, 2011
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Personally I think the developers are a bunch of lazy gits if they haven't ported the game to run on my TI-80 graphing calculator and tuned it to get at least 60 FPS.
 
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Fanatical Meat

Lifer
Feb 4, 2009
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People on Reddit which I know are people on Reddit seem to think there will be no big advances on cards until there is GDDR7.
I am certainly no expert it appears to me cards are gimped by the bus and chip being perpetual rehashes of what’s already present. Essentially what intel was doing with +, then ++, then +++.
I find it odd that prices are still fairly high and some cards are still incapable of ultra settings at 1080.
I really think it is the duopoly doing what duopoly’s do, one market leader with a high cost and another market competitor that offers slightly lower cost and both being as lazy as possible to preserve margins.
 
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maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
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Please ignore this and continue prioritizing the high price info from our very own forum experts on why we can't afford to have cheaper 16GB cards.


3DCenter.org | Hintergründe, Fakten, Analysen zu Gamer-Hardware & IT

3DCenter ist die größte deutschsprachige Grafikkarten-Webseite. Schwerpunkte sind die Berichterstattung über Grafikkarten und andere Hardware für den Gamer, sowie das Thema Benchmarking und Hintergründe zu 3D-Effekten und -Features.
www.3dcenter.org
 
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jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
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maddie said:
Please ignore this and continue prioritizing the high price info from our very own forum experts on why we can't afford to have cheaper 16GB cards.
Click to expand...

Given that there's little to no demand for the slower speed 1 GB chips anymore... it's quite the stretch to compare this to the faster 2 GB chips or GDDR6X. Even if the numbers were accurate.

I can't even think of a product that would still continue to be assembled that would be using it... PS4/XBox One uses GDDR5, if they are still being produced.
 
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maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
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jpiniero said:
Given that there's little to no demand for the slower speed 1 GB chips anymore... it's quite the stretch to compare this to the faster 2 GB chips or GDDR6X. Even if the numbers were accurate.

I can't even think of a product that would still continue to be assembled that would be using it... PS4/XBox One uses GDDR5, if they are still being produced.
Click to expand...
As expected. Well ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, show us the prices for the 16Gb prices. Let's have a true debate on if the margins are too unreasonable for an added 8GB. We have had earlier posts showing the spot price for 16Gb die as slightly higher than this which you might have not seen. I'm being generous here and not assuming that you're simply ignoring contrary data to continue advancing your high prices are justified arguments.

An honest question. Do you really know the prices are high are you just claiming they are high without really knowing anything? By the way if you do know, please share the source. It would help us so much.
 
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Ranulf

Platinum Member
Jul 18, 2001
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I mean the high speed variant.

GDDR6X memory

Discover Micron GDDR6X, the innovative discrete graphics memory for gaming, visualization and AI workloads, with blazing fast speed, ultra high bandwidth and low power consumption.
www.micron.com

Used on the 3080...

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Specs

NVIDIA GA102, 1710 MHz, 8704 Cores, 272 TMUs, 96 ROPs, 10240 MB GDDR6X, 1188 MHz, 320 bit
www.techpowerup.com
 
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Fanatical Meat

Lifer
Feb 4, 2009
34,699
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Ranulf said:
I mean the high speed variant.

GDDR6X memory

Discover Micron GDDR6X, the innovative discrete graphics memory for gaming, visualization and AI workloads, with blazing fast speed, ultra high bandwidth and low power consumption.
www.micron.com

Used on the 3080...

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Specs

NVIDIA GA102, 1710 MHz, 8704 Cores, 272 TMUs, 96 ROPs, 10240 MB GDDR6X, 1188 MHz, 320 bit
www.techpowerup.com
Click to expand...
I see you’re in the Reddit crowd
 
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blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
9,197
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www.teamjuchems.com
Fanatical Meat said:
This

Page 42 - 8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

Page 42 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
forums.anandtech.com
Click to expand...

I don’t think he was saying that at all. He was just pointing out that the 4060 and 4060 Ti don’t use GDDR6X so the ram should be cheap, so why go short on it?

Then you as what the X was for, and when he answered you equated him with people who think we are doomed to have slow cards until GDDR7?

That last jump doesn’t make sense and I don’t think folks here are generally believing that another memory standard is the answer.
 
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Fanatical Meat

Lifer
Feb 4, 2009
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blckgrffn said:
I don’t think he was saying that at all. He was just pointing out that the 4060 and 4060 Ti don’t use GDDR6X so the ram should be cheap, so why go short on it?

Then you as what the X was for, and when he answered you equated him with people who think we are doomed to have slow cards until GDDR7?

That last jump doesn’t make sense and I don’t think folks here are generally believing that another memory standard is the answer.
Click to expand...
Fair enough & thanks for the clarification
 
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MrTeal

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
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maddie said:
As expected. Well ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, show us the prices for the 16Gb prices. Let's have a true debate on if the margins are too unreasonable for an added 8GB. We have had earlier posts showing the spot price for 16Gb die as slightly higher than this which you might have not seen. I'm being generous here and not assuming that you're simply ignoring contrary data to continue advancing your high prices are justified arguments.

An honest question. Do you really know the prices are high are you just claiming they are high without really knowing anything? By the way if you do know, please share the source. It would help us so much.
Click to expand...
The price for a single 16Gb GDDR6 chip is going to be somewhere in the range of 6x-10x the price of an 8Gb chip.
Like, obviously.
 
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fleshconsumed

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2002
6,485
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Mopetar said:
I'm more annoyed at NVidia/AMD and the game developers for going down this road because it removes objective measures of performance and just leads to people picking favorable reviews of image quality and calling anyone else biased.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't blame game devs. What are they going to do? Release a game that is a stuttering mess because it constantly runs out of VRAM? Can't do that as that would kill the sales. A smooth running game with blurry textures in places is better than a stuttering mess. Put the blame where it belongs - on video card manufacturers pushing out turds at sky high prices.
 
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MrTeal

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
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jpiniero said:
If there was demand for 1 GB chips anymore, the price would be higher obviously.
Click to expand...
It's not an issue of just 1GB chips, those are just the standard for reporting. The entire DRAM market is depressed and prices are in freefall.

Press Center - DRAM Industry Q1 Revenues Decline 21.2% QoQ, Marking Third Consecutive Quarter of Downturn, Says TrendForce | TrendForce - Market research, price trend of DRAM, NAND Flash, LEDs, TFT-LCD and green energy, PV

TrendForce reports a dramatic 21.2% QoQ decline in Q1 revenues for the DRAM industry, bringing total revenue down to US$9.663 billion. This significant dip represents the third consecutive quarter where revenues have fallen.
www.trendforce.com
 
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maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
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jpiniero said:
If there was demand for 1 GB chips anymore, the price would be higher obviously.
Click to expand...
Show us the prices. Ignoring ALL calls for data transparency only degrades your claim that prices are high. You're asking everyone to accept your position because you claim it's true. A sort of "its true because I say its true" argument. Why don't we leave such for the simpler minded crowd.
 
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Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
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fleshconsumed said:
I wouldn't blame game devs. What are they going to do? Release a game that is a stuttering mess because it constantly runs out of VRAM? Can't do that as that would kill the sales. A smooth running game with blurry textures in places is better than a stuttering mess.
Click to expand...

If the game is going to be a stuttering mess due to VRAM limits then don't let the user set the slider above medium or whatever allows it to run acceptably. Or at least warn the user before letting them select that option.

Letting people run on ultra and not using those textures in order to keep a smooth frame rate is just lying to the owner. Why should I let a game developer off the hook for being complicit in the GPU manufacturers' lies?

Perhaps there would be a lot more consumer pressure on the GPU manufacturers if they knew the truth about how limiting 8GB of VRAM actually is. Game developers trying to cover up that fact deserve as much scorn, maybe more. Repeating a lie is bad enough, but going beyond that to cover up the truth is worse.
 
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DeathReborn

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 2005
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blckgrffn said:
I don’t think he was saying that at all. He was just pointing out that the 4060 and 4060 Ti don’t use GDDR6X so the ram should be cheap, so why go short on it?

Then you as what the X was for, and when he answered you equated him with people who think we are doomed to have slow cards until GDDR7?

That last jump doesn’t make sense and I don’t think folks here are generally believing that another memory standard is the answer.
Click to expand...
You're right, they could be using 64Gbps GDDR9 but if it's still 8/16Gbit dies then it's not solved the problem, which is capacity.
 
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