8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

[BFG10K]

8GB

• Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
  3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
• Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
• Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
• Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
• Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
• Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
• Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
• Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
• Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
• Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
• Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
• Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
• Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
• Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
• Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Spoiler

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Spoiler

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

Spoiler

10GB / 12GB

• Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
• Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

Spoiler

1. It's the player's fault.
2. It's the reviewer's fault.
3. It's the developer's fault.
4. It's AMD's fault.
5. It's the game's fault.
6. It's the driver's fault.
7. It's a system configuration issue.
8. Wrong settings were tested.
9. Wrong area was tested.
10. Wrong games were tested.
11. 4K is irrelevant.
12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
16. It's an anomaly.
17. It's a console port.
18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

 

[Mopetar]

You're right, they could be using 64Gbps GDDR9 but if it's still 8/16Gbit dies then it's not solved the problem, which is capacity.

The lack of bandwidth is hurting the 4060 Ti to some degree. The L2 cache isn't big enough to compensate for the drop in bandwidth for some titles.

Only having 8GB is another issue, but even when the 16GB 4060 Ti comes out it'll still show regression in some titles because the bottleneck is the memory throughput not the capacity.

 

[Spjut]

What I find even more annoying is the same people demanding developers patch games to work on 8GB because "it's the developers fault", none of them demand games to work on dual-core CPUs with 4GB system RAM and 5400rpm HDDs.

Regarding that, I was always frustrated to see older CPUs being artifically locked out in modern games due to requiring AVX or SSE4.2 .

There are community fixes that bypass the requirements and 2009 era CPUs like i7 920 still handily outperform the PS4 version of those games. But it's like all reputable PC sites just adopt the policy of "meh your CPU is old anyway so just upgrade to a new one"

 

[Thunder 57]

Regarding that, I was always frustrated to see older CPUs being artifically locked out in modern games due to requiring AVX or SSE4.2 .

There are community fixes that bypass the requirements and 2009 era CPUs like i7 920 still handily outperform the PS4 version of those games. But it's like all reputable PC sites just adopt the policy of "meh your CPU is old anyway so just upgrade to a new one"

That's just brute forcing it though. So they patch these games to run on what, SSE2 from over 20 years ago? If you do ont have AVX you are on an old ass system and probably missing out on plenty whether it be AVX in other software or memory/video upgrades.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Haha

 

[menhera]

I measured VRAM usage in several games (pic is Shadow of the Tomb Raider), and noticed that you have to play games for at least 20 minutes for accurate usage. No reviewers could've done it in a single game before the 4060 Ti launch.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

View attachment 82284
I measured VRAM usage in several games (pic is Shadow of the Tomb Raider), and noticed that you have to play games for at least 20 minutes for accurate usage. No reviewers could've done it in a single game before the 4060 Ti launch.

Welcome aboard m8. Good to have another gamer here, that won't accept the inadequate testing done by every major reviewer 99% of the time.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

View attachment 82284
I measured VRAM usage in several games (pic is Shadow of the Tomb Raider), and noticed that you have to play games for at least 20 minutes for accurate usage. No reviewers could've done it in a single game before the 4060 Ti launch.

- I wonder how much of the 8GB patching we're seeing recently incudes a bunch of aggressive VRAM culling that basically takes the "you need more than 8gb point" and pushes it further back into the play session precisely to avoid being picked up by standard benchmarking sites.

Curious if you can take a look at some of the more recent culprits like The Last of Us Part 1 or Hogwarts Legacy and see if you spot a similar trend in those games.

 

[menhera]

Curious if you can take a look at some of the more recent culprits like The Last of Us Part 1 or Hogwarts Legacy and see if you spot a similar trend in those games.

I was playing TLOU and unfortunately game crashed in 17 minutes (1020 seconds). This game is more consistent, but the image suggests a few minutes still isn't enough.

 

[AtenRa]

View attachment 82301
I was playing TLOU and unfortunately game crashed in 17 minutes (1020 seconds). This game is more consistent, but the image suggests a few minutes still isn't enough.

What is your system specs and how much Vram is used in those diagrams ??

 

[menhera]

What is your system specs and how much Vram is used in those diagrams ??

Sorry, forgot to add specs and settings.
CPU: 5800X
RAM: 32GB 3200MHz (8GB*4)
GPU: 6900 XT
Resolution: 1440p
Graphics settings: a mix of Ultra and High options

10.39 GiB is allocated in total and 8.4 GiB is bound in the Last of Us.

 

[AtenRa]

View attachment 82312
Sorry, forgot to add specs and settings.
CPU: 5800X
RAM: 32GB 3200MHz (8GB*4)
GPU: 6900 XT
Resolution: 1440p
Graphics settings: a mix of Ultra and High options

10.39 GiB is allocated in total and 8.4 GiB is bound in the Last of Us.

thx

 

[Spjut]

That's just brute forcing it though. So they patch these games to run on what, SSE2 from over 20 years ago? If you do ont have AVX you are on an old ass system and probably missing out on plenty whether it be AVX in other software or memory/video upgrades.

Why does it matter that it's an old ass system when it still is good enough to run many modern games?

The artificial limitation to require AVX or SSE4.2 just gives people a false impression that PC gaming has progressed further than it has. And it's ironic considering how many have yelled at games just being console ports.

The ability to pop in 8GB+ extra RAM and a 3050 Ti in an old i7 920 or 980 system, and suddenly be able to play modern games again and do so better than the PS4, is a good thing.

Cyberpunk has had a better approach. Since it removed the AVX requirement you are free to run it on CPUs lacking AVX and if it actually performs badly, you know your CPU is too old instead of artificially locked out.

PC gaming had a reputation of needing regular upgrades, and today when they obviously can outlast the console generation, we get a completely needless return to these times by having artificial limitations in place.

 

[BFG10K]

I measured VRAM usage in several games (pic is Shadow of the Tomb Raider), and noticed that you have to play games for at least 20 minutes for accurate usage.

Yep. Not only that, but scene selection also greatly matters. That's why I chuckle every time I see someone say "site X didn't show any issues, so that proves none exist!" As if a single sample point somehow disproves multiple objectively proven positive sightings.

Heck, most reviewers don't really even play games and those that do, even fewer play through an entire campaign.

And the whole "allocation isn't the same as usage" troupe is also outdated, given we've had access to per-process readings for the last 6+ months (including from MS's own tools), which are fairly accurate and line up pretty well with games' internal OSDs.

 

[jpiniero]

Why does it matter that it's an old ass system when it still is good enough to run many modern games?

The usage of AVX is more likely because the PS4/XBO support it, and that's where they baselined the support. I dunno if you would see a game that would require AVX2 any time soon but it could happen.

 

[menhera]

Yep. Not only that, but scene selection also greatly matters. That's why I chuckle every time I see someone say "site X didn't show any issues, so that proves none exist!" As if a single sample point somehow disproves multiple objectively proven positive sightings.

Heck, most reviewers don't really even play games and those that do, even fewer play through an entire campaign.

And the whole "allocation isn't the same as usage" troupe is also outdated, given we've had access to per-process readings for the last 6+ months (including from MS's own tools), which are fairly accurate and line up pretty well with games' internal OSDs.

I don't want to blame other reviewers, but DF seems crooked to me. If they care about image quality so much, they must have found 8GB of VRAM being insufficient in Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Doom Eternal and Control with ray tracing on. All of them are Nvidia-sponsored games, and DF looked the other way.

 

[BFG10K]

18th July, bois:

16GB Variant of GeForce RTX 4060 Ti Launches July 18

NVIDIA is preparing the launch of its third and final RTX 4060-series graphics card SKU, the GeForce RTX 4060 16 GB, for July 18, 2023. Going by past convention, reviews of the RTX 4060 Ti 16 GB graphics card priced at its steep $499 MSRP, will go live on June 17, and those priced above the MSRP...

www.techpowerup.com

I wonder how NV will spin 16GB as an advantage while not dumping all over 8GB? Jensen's PR mouthpieces must be sweating.

Spoiler

 

[jpiniero]

18th July, bois:

16GB Variant of GeForce RTX 4060 Ti Launches July 18

NVIDIA is preparing the launch of its third and final RTX 4060-series graphics card SKU, the GeForce RTX 4060 16 GB, for July 18, 2023. Going by past convention, reviews of the RTX 4060 Ti 16 GB graphics card priced at its steep $499 MSRP, will go live on June 17, and those priced above the MSRP...

www.techpowerup.com

I wonder how NV will spin 16GB as an advantage while not dumping all over 8GB? Jensen's PR mouthpieces must be sweating.

Not much, given that they knew it isn't going to sell because of the extra $100.

It was just done to shut up the 8 GB haters for a bit.

 

[gdansk]

Not much, given that they knew it isn't going to sell because of the extra $100.

It was just done to shut up the 8 GB haters for a bit.

The solution for marketing is to say "CUDA. 16GB. $500". And so it'll be the best selling of all the AD106 parts.

 

[Mopetar]

If they're selling the fully unlocked professional drivers and capabilities of the card, it won't be for only $500.

 

[gdansk]

If they're selling the fully unlocked professional drivers and capabilities of the card, it won't be for only $500.

Who said anything about full capabilities? You don't even get that with a RTX 4090 and even less with a RTX 4080. But that doesn't stop people buying them for video editing, etc. 2/3rd the VRAM for less than 1/3rd the price? That's gonna be a no-brainer for that entire class of buyer. As long as the workload fits in VRAM it completes in a reasonable amount of time even if slower than the big boys.

And OEMs can cheaply cool a 160W card, not a 320W or 450W behemoth. So it'll do well in pre-builts too.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Who said anything about full capabilities? You don't even get that with a RTX 4090 and even less with a RTX 4080. But that doesn't stop people buying them for video editing, etc. 2/3rd the VRAM for less than 1/3rd the price? That's gonna be a no-brainer for that entire class of buyer. As long as the workload fits in VRAM it completes in a reasonable amount of time even if slower than the big boys.

And OEMs can cheaply cool a 160W card, not a 320W or 450W behemoth. So it'll do well in pre-builts too.

I don't see pre-builts springing for the 16GB. Hell I don't see them springing past the 4060.

 

[coercitiv]

I don't see pre-builts springing for the 16GB. Hell I don't see them springing past the 4060.

I can already see the pre-built naming: Dragon 16, Dual Wield, Texture Wizard, LOD Master and my favorite... Pop-in Assassin!

 

[BFG10K]

AIB's don't seem to care much about the 16GB version:

Very few NVIDIA board partners interested in promoting GeForce RTX 4060 Ti with 16GB memory - VideoCardz.com

NVIDIA RTX 4060 Ti is getting twice the memory soon According to Andreas Schilling (HardwareLuxx), NVIDIA board partners seem uninterested in the upcoming launch of another RTX 4060 Ti graphics card. NVIDIA announced that it will be providing two memory configurations for its latest desktop...

videocardz.com

I give it 6-12 months before it'll be faster than the 4070TI in some games.

 

[MrTeal]

Who said anything about full capabilities? You don't even get that with a RTX 4090 and even less with a RTX 4080. But that doesn't stop people buying them for video editing, etc. 2/3rd the VRAM for less than 1/3rd the price? That's gonna be a no-brainer for that entire class of buyer. As long as the workload fits in VRAM it completes in a reasonable amount of time even if slower than the big boys.

And OEMs can cheaply cool a 160W card, not a 320W or 450W behemoth. So it'll do well in pre-builts too.

The 4060 Ti is already a crap product in Pugot's content creation benchmarks, worse than the 3060 Ti in some cases. If your application is memory dependent, then that 128-bit bus kills. Maybe if you have an edge case where you just need a bunch of VRAM but don't care about bandwidth, but for that class of buyer looking at used 3090s with 24GB and over 3x the memory bandwidth would be a better choice in most cases. They're not quite $500 yet though I have seen some used ones go for that, but even at $600 it'd be a way better option for rendering than a 4060 Ti 16GB at $500.

 

[AtenRa]

LOL

Next week will be a blood bath ........