8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

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BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
2,979
126
8GB
Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.
Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:
Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

10GB / 12GB

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.
  1. It's the player's fault.
  2. It's the reviewer's fault.
  3. It's the developer's fault.
  4. It's AMD's fault.
  5. It's the game's fault.
  6. It's the driver's fault.
  7. It's a system configuration issue.
  8. Wrong settings were tested.
  9. Wrong area was tested.
  10. Wrong games were tested.
  11. 4K is irrelevant.
  12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
  13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
  14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
  15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
  16. It's an anomaly.
  17. It's a console port.
  18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
  19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
  20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
  21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.
According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!
 
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igor_kavinski

Lifer
Jul 27, 2020
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Also,

House number 8 numerology: Significance and effects of number 8

As per numerology, house number 8 is perfect for people who are looking to start a family. Learn more about house number 8 numerology.
housing.com

Is number 8 unlucky in numerology?​


Since the number 8 represents Saturn or Shani, it is often linked with misery and gloom. The number 8 has always been misunderstood and is generally associated with bad luck. However, in Chinese culture, eight is regarded as the luckiest number. For some people, the number 8 is a symbol of a new beginning and new order. Hence, it totally depends on your outlook and belief, if you want to consider number 8 as a trouble-making digit or as a symbol of prosperity.
Click to expand...
Blame Jensen. He clearly thinks that 8 is lucky for him.
 
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Fanatical Meat

Lifer
Feb 4, 2009
34,703
15,951
136
In a sense wouldn’t it be nice if AMD & nVidia just said “nope it’s 8 or 12GB and that’s it”
Hear me out guys.
This would allow game developers to design games within that memory envelope kind of like what they do with the consoles.
 
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Saylick

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Sep 10, 2012
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GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
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Thunder 57 said:
I enjoy the hell out of my N64 with 4MB of RAM. I still have it.
Click to expand...

-Never got the expansion pack that doubled RAM from 4 to 8mb, eh pleb?

Well neither did I. I like my wall of fog 10 feet from my characters face. It's a wonder Konami never made a Silent Hill for the N64, feels like the game and the system were meant for each other.
 
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Thunder 57

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2007
2,814
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GodisanAtheist said:
-Never got the expansion pack that doubled RAM from 4 to 8mb, eh pleb?

Well neither did I. I like my wall of fog 10 feet from my characters face. It's a wonder Konami never made a Silent Hill for the N64, feels like the game and the system were meant for each other.
Click to expand...

Actually I did. Couldn't play Donkey Kong without it. And Perfect Dark was nearly useless. I think they were $30 at the time. They cost more now.
 
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Mopetar

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Jan 31, 2011
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Even with those limitations in the hardware, games could still be made to run better. I watched a video a while back about someone who made a Mario 64 ROM hack and went through and fixed bugs or rewrote a lot of the game code to run significantly better.


There are some other videos from the same guy that go more into detail about specific parts of the engine or overcoming other limitations of the hardware. Definitely worth a watch for anyone interested in older hardware.

Before anyone goes off about lazy devs, keep in mind this was a launch title on a new hardware system for a 3D game in a language that the developers weren't widely experienced with.
 
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BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
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psolord said:
24 games amongst thousands is nothing.
Click to expand...
Likewise, the number of games that support ray tracing or upscaling is nothing out of tens of thousands that don't.

So which is it? Is % game support an indicator of how important something is, or not?

And these games can probably look and play fine with the correct settings.
Click to expand...
15. It's completely acceptable for 3070/3070TI/3080 owners to turn down settings while 3060/6700XT users have no issue.
20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on nVidia cards while AMD users have no issue.

And yes 8GBs is a lot. If the dev is capable, he can do marvels...
Click to expand...

3. It's the developer's fault.
14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.

Who decides when games can use more than 8GB? Is it you, or someone else?
And are we applying 2014 VRAM standards elsewhere, like to CPUs and system RAM. Should we also see "marvels" on dual-cores and 4GB DRAM?

We also have multiple devs on record saying 8GB VRAM has been holding back gaming for years and is an unsustainable burden to keep supporting it.

...at least for 1080p that 61.5% of people still use, according to steam.
Click to expand...
And according to internet polls most users consistently don't give a crap about ray tracing, like this latest one with 31,000 votes:


So again, do we use popularity to gauge how important something is, or not?

In any case, we have a very recent example of what more vram does. The 4060ti 16GB. It's 2% faster than the 8GB model, according to TPU.

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060 Ti 16 GB Review - Twice the VRAM Making a Difference?

Finally! Our GeForce RTX 4060 Ti 16 GB review is live. We're investigating what performance gains you can expect from doubling the VRAM size to 16 GB. Our review of the 16 GB version also looks at power consumption and how overclocking is affected by the additional four memory chips on the back...
www.techpowerup.com
Click to expand...
LOL. Is this a joke troll or something? Or are you incapable of reading previous posts?

ComputerBase, HWUB and Daniel Owen have already been shown in this thread with objective proof 16GB can be much faster than 8GB.

If you think all three are lying or mistaken, you need to provide evidence. "I looked in one place and didn't see a difference, so it doesn't exist anywhere!" is not evidence.

We need to go forward, step by step.
Click to expand...
Except for 8GB VRAM capacity, which we're still using from the year 2014, amirite?

... but what I don't appreciate, is the whole e-waste mentality that is thrown towards 8GB cards. They have a place. People just need to do a market survey and see if their needs are met. This whole bitch, bitch, moan, omg, rofl-ing, regarding vram is counter constructive.
Click to expand...
Oh you shining crusader, you. I'm sure that $trillion corporation appreciates your sentiment as Jensen tries on his latest aye-eye(tm) leather-mink-fur coat.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,570
7,631
136
BFG10K said:
Except for 8GB VRAM capacity, which we're still using from the year 2014, amirite?
Click to expand...
  • Got my first 6GB GPU in 2016. (GTX 1060)
  • Got my first 8GB GPU in 2021. (RTX 3060 Ti)
For me, there is nothing "2014" about it. The real issue is how consoles created a demand for more, and NVIDIA had no interest in keeping up. Leaving most PC users in the dust.
Thanks to the RTX 30 and 40 series, NEXT generation console hardware will be out before most PC users exceed 8GB VRAM.
 
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DamZe

Member
May 18, 2016
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8GB really did make sense from 2016-2020, but after that the writing was on the wall. Shameful of nVIdia for gimping the base 3080 with 10GB... Cutting corners for the "flagship" ampere card that now can't hang in vRAM intensive scenarios against the base RX 6800 non XT should be a warning sign to anyone considering to pay $800 for the 4070Ti.
 
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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
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The performance budget tool could be pretty neat to play with, if works well.

https://www.ea.com/games/immortals-of-aveum/immortals-of-aveum/news/technology

Things like Nanite are going to eat VRAM. I for one welcome our higher asset overlords.

They do state they are working on scaling it

"Additionally, the studio is continuing to optimize the game to play well on lower hardware to make the game accessible to even more players. While we aren't ready to confirm anything just yet, we intend to announce new low end specs soon targeting a 1080p/30fps experience. To give you an example, the team currently has the game running well in the 40fps range on an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 and Intel Core i7-8700K configuration. With Unreal Engine 5.1 being so new, we want to see just how far down we can optimize and thoroughly test as many lower-end set-ups as possible."
 
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psolord

Platinum Member
Sep 16, 2009
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DAPUNISHER said:
Most gamers buy a new card because they want to play the latest greatest and upcoming games. Not just the older games they already have in their libraries. The problematic titles are newer, and that list will continue to grow with new releases. All of those preceding games are irrelevant to the premise that 8GB is no longer enough.
Click to expand...
Yes but they WILL play the newer games, with proper settings, as I do on all three of my 8GB cards, which I will repeat, they are nothing alike. This whole thread, makes 8GB look like it's the no1 metric for a graphics cards performance, while it is not.

DAPUNISHER said:
Not surprised you immediately invoked one of the list of excuses posted by BFG10K. Correct settings eh? Like having to immediately reduce textures on a $400 8GB card you just bought? Preposterous. That's not correct settings, that's reduced settings. Perhaps the most important graphics fidelity setting.
Click to expand...
It is not an excuse sir and just because it is written in the op, does not forbid me to use it. People use stupid settings all the time. It's not the card's fault. Also I did not advise anyone to go buy a 400$ 8GB card. If you find a post like that, please give me the link.

I am talking about the cards I already have and are on my signature. I got the 6600 for effective 165 euros (minus the games). It's a good card for what it's meant to do. The 3060ti was much more expensive and it still runs great. The 1070 beside its age, still manages most games admirably. Hugely different cards tho.

Now as for a 4060ti, if I was still on 1080p for my primary gaming system, I would consider it. I know how to setup my games and I am not expecting miracles from a 400$ card.

DAPUNISHER said:
The division fallacy - What's true of the whole is true of the parts. Except when it isn't. Daniel-San's comparison above demonstrates that. The performance is basically the same until it isn't. Then there can be massive differences in fps, especially lows. Textures not loading or being reduced quality are not represented by that 2% either.
Click to expand...
Yes, that's why it is 25% more expensive. This goes both ways tho. In most cases it will not be much faster because of the 16GB vram. It will go tits up due to processing power, same as the 8GB 4060ti. Some examples below.

DAPUNISHER said:
This ignores the fact that no matter what settings you have to reduce to get playable fps, the 16GB card will be able to keep the texture settings much higher. So when we get to that playable experience the 16GB will look better even if it plays the same.
Click to expand...
Starfield does not even have a texture setting, I kid you not.

And please see some UE5 games and see what is more important, vram usage or processing power.

DAPUNISHER said:
Ray tracing existed before Nvidia added hardware support for it to their RTX cards. It doesn't require their hardware to run. It does use vram though. You know, what this thread is all about.
Click to expand...
Yes and there are various settings for ray tracing as well. Why would I assume that I can use the same RT settings on my 3060ti as my 4070ti as on a 4090? What are you guys debating here exactly? You want the prime cut features on lower end cards?

DAPUNISHER said:
Strawman fallacy. We have, through ample precedence, established 8GB cards are AAA cards, just not so much for newer titles and moving forward. Again, you make his point for him by calling 8GB cards non AAA. In your attempt to hand wave those pesky facts away, you ended up proving his argument. Well done.
Click to expand...
Non of my 8GB cards are AAA cards. Some older 8GB cards, where indeed AAA cards indeed. A 8GB 3070ti is like 3X faster than my 1070 for example. It still is and always will be. Vram has nothing to do with it.

DAPUNISHER said:
If there was any doubt still in the reader's mind about your motivations, this made it crystal clear.
Click to expand...
This just shows that the whole point of this thread, is the NvidiavsAMDing and not the 8GB vrams issues. I have zero motivations. I just want to get my job done and I do. I have no affiliation to whoever corp. If anyone says a good thing about nvidia in these forums, zomfg.

DAPUNISHER said:
Can you explain how roasting Nvidia for overcharging for vram is counter constructive as you called it? Because that's what all of the derision is about. Nvidia charging $300 or more for 8GB. No one is bemoaning the A750 or 6600 being 8GB as they are priced more appropriately for that amount.

Let me break it down this way. There are 2 primary emphasis to this thread. The first is a PSA/FYI that 8GB is aging out, so don't overpay for a card with that much. The second is that Nvidia has overcharged for 8GB for generations now. The third point, which is ancillary, is that Nvidia overcharges for ram period.

You may not appreciate it, but you don't speak for me. If we don't hold their feet to the fire who will? The DIY gaming community has to have a voice, a loud one. LTT, GN, HUB, all owe their success to us. They hear us and represent us, so that our voices are heard collectively.

I feel like you want us to stop doing that. Again, counter productive to what?
Click to expand...
It's counter productive, from the aspect that you are focusing too much on a specific spec of a graphics card, while there are many others just as important. Moreover you are peep silent, for the countless games that ARE ok with 8GBs.

For me 8GBs were always for 1080p and even that, has huge difference form card to card. Try playing Starfield at 1080p high on a 1070, a 6600 and a 3060ti and see how equal they are... How do you value these cards? Should all 8GB cards cost the same? I don't get it.

Nvidia is selling complete solutions that contain hardware and software, that include their very good upscalers, that also reduce other hardware requirements. They are balancing their cards accordingly. And yes there will be some planned obsolescence in there, but I can assure you, graphics cards fall short of processing power, before they fall short of vram, in the VAST majority of games.
 
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psolord

Platinum Member
Sep 16, 2009
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BFG10K said:
Another game: Deliver Us Mars.

Massive pauses on the 8GB 4060TI, no such problems on 12GB 3060 or 16GB Arc A770.

Click to expand...
So these are the examples that are getting people rallied up in this thread? They used settings that make all cards useless, they all fall below 30fps, but the crawling of the 4060ti is the highlight here? Put them all on the proper settings and retest sir.
 
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psolord

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GodisanAtheist said:
Welcome to the age of the Unreal Engine.

No more engines purpose built for the game, just a one size fits all totally unoptimized game engine experience.
Click to expand...
I am quoting this post, with the perspective of UE5 and the processing power it requires, not the user per se.

So we have Immortals of Aveum right? This is the DF video.


The game runs essentially at 720p for the big consoles and freaking 436p on the Series S. A little more and we are back to Amiga 500 resolutions.






Where I am getting at, is all of them have MORE THAN 8GB vram and how is that helping them, hmmm?

I mean Microsoft looked us in the eye, and said, here is a 4tflop machine, that WILL be the baseline for the next 7 years and you guys are worried about the 8GBs? AND with severely reduced quality.

 
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