8th Grader shot by Police in Texas

[werepossum]

I was bullied in school too. i found the only way to end it was to stand up for myself (i was 5ft 3 and maybe 110 as a jr) win or lose a bully didn't want to go in a second fight.

should it be a last resort? yes. but i won't have my kids be tortured either. Also to say that ". Fighting is 100% idiotic if it is at all avoidable." is idiotic too.

A child that is a victim of bully and the school not doing anything (wich happens far more then people think) needs to do something. walking away just makes it worse.

I had much the same experience, being 5'-6" and about 120 with a smart mouth, but I agree with Bfdd about throwing the first punch. If it's going to happen, I'm going to get in at least one good lick even though that might well be the only good lick I get in. A bully tended to remember that bloody nose at least as well as he remembered kicking my ass, which meant I seldom had to get my ass kicked twice by the same person.

 

[airdata]

Glad i grew up in the 90s.

Police would have had a field day with me today if they caught my 10-11 year old self bringing a dummy grenade to school.

 

[EagleKeeper]

I had much the same experience, being 5'-6" and about 120 with a smart mouth, but I agree with Bfdd about throwing the first punch. If it's going to happen, I'm going to get in at least one good lick even though that might well be the only good link I get in. A bully tended to remember that bloody nose at least as well as he remembered kicking my ass, which meant I seldom had to get my ass kicked twice by the same person.

I have always never thrown the first and sometime never last punch.
I made sure that after the first punch, I got up and kick the opponent in the nuts. Then went after the face. Dirty play but then only names followed me. I could live with names.

Being 2-3 years younger in HS had that effect.

 

[bfdd]

The key qualifier to what I said is "if it is at all avoidable." Sure, if you are physically (not verbally) threatened, AND the school won't do anything about it, then likely the kid has no choice. However, I think many of the comments I hear about bullying suggest that violence is the first resort, the implication being that you're a pussy if you choose any other alternative. Well guess what, that's what the bullies in 7th grade gym class said too. Yet we aren't 11 year old boys any more so what is our excuse? Our need to wave our epeen does not qualify.

i'm a solve my own problems kind of guy, btw i didn't fight much because no one really started or starts anything with me. i'm a bigger guy, have been since high school and i'm rather laid back. that doesn't mean people haven't been complete moron jackasses and i haven't gotten into a few fights here and there. i'd rather not fight, you never know who knows what now a days. especially where i live, people are really into martial arts and what not here.

 

[werepossum]

Never been in a fight in my life. True story. I avoided them in school and was called a pussy for it. Also true story. Unless you were raised in a tough area/inner city etc., there isn't much reason to have been involved in many physical altercations. Fighting is 100% idiotic if it is at all avoidable.

- wolf

I don't think know a single person who hasn't ever been in a fight. Congrats, I guess? There wasn't ever a time you felt like you had to stand up to someone, even for someone else?

Maybe it's because I was raised in the country, but I never thought fights were that big a deal. I avoided them because I was small, not particularly good at fighting (I especially had a hard time hitting someone in the face), and because I dislike getting my ass kicked (which I usually did), but it didn't really seem like a huge deal. Sometimes you even end up friends with the guy, and at the very least it keeps you from being bullied which seems worse to me than losing a little blood and a little hide, or sporting a shiner for a few days.

That may also be a benefit in being a little guy, since those good at fighting tend not to want to fight you. What's the point in whipping someone half your size? LOL

 

[werepossum]

I have always never thrown the first and sometime never last punch.
I made sure that after the first punch, I got up and kick the opponent in the nuts. Then went after the face. Dirty play but then only names followed me. I could live with names.

Being 2-3 years younger in HS had that effect.

I can see that, being 2 or 3 years younger than everyone else. I never had to kick anyone in the nuts, but if I thought that was the only way I could fight back, I would have. Thankfully I also had some friends who were big and if someone way bigger was looking to fight me, they'd either step in and say fight me instead, or pick a revenge fight later. That helped too, although the really big, tough guys tended not to be bullies anyway.

Interestingly I had one friend who loved to fight. In high school he'd go to bars and pick fights with grown men for fun. He always maintained that if I just had a lot of fights, I'd learn to love it too, and he several times told guys I had said something awful to provoke them into fighting me. Luckily for me though I was always able to talk myself out of those fights.

 

[janas19]

and the little bastard deserved it
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-01-04/texas-student-shot/52379064/1



What I don't get is the woman talking about imitators. What kid is stupid enough to see this situation and go "Yup, that's what I want to do." If you raised kids like that or know kids like that, they probably deserve it and you should just shut your idiotic mouth.

Congratulations bfdd, you have brought new and never before seen luster to the words "douche bag" and "tool."

 

[Macamus Prime]

lol so cops outside of Texas are trained to shoot to wound? Or better yet, shoot the gun out of his hand! haha loliberals

Well, when it comes to kids, we just eat them,... little bastards somehow escaped our abortion factories.

 

[bfdd]

Congratulations bfdd, you have brought new and never before seen luster to the words "douche bag" and "tool."

waah an idiot who made poor decisions died, whatever, move a long. i'm sorry i do not value life as much as you do and clearly that kid didn't either. so don't project your morals onto myself and the deceased.

 

[janas19]

waah an idiot who made poor decisions died, whatever, move a long. i'm sorry i do not value life as much as you do and clearly that kid didn't either. so don't project your morals onto myself and the deceased.

Oh realllly? So if the situation was reversed, and your 15 year old kid was shot to death for holding a pellet gun, I suppose you wouldn't mind at all because he made some poor decisions. Do I have that right?

 

[TheVrolok]

A 15 year old 8th grader? I'm fairly certain I was 15 in 10th grade. The police photo of the gun doesn't appear to have orange safety tip so I imagine at any distance it is indistinguishable from the real thing. Children report they heard the officers ordering him to put it down. Of course it's tragic that a kid died, but it looks completely justified to me.

 

[janas19]

A 15 year old 8th grader? I'm fairly certain I was 15 in 10th grade. The police photo of the gun doesn't appear to have orange safety tip so I imagine at any distance it is indistinguishable from the real thing. Children report they heard the officers ordering him to put it down. Of course it's tragic that a kid died, but it looks completely justified to me.

Since when is fatally shooting a 15 year old with a pellet gun justice? How about this: complete injustice, that never should have happened.

 

[corwin]

Since when is fatally shooting a 15 year old with a gun justice? How about this: Completely justified.

FTFY

 

[TheVrolok]

Since when is fatally shooting a 15 year old with a pellet gun justice? How about this: complete injustice, that never should have happened.

I didn't say anything about justice. I said it was a justifiable shooting. Of course it should not have happened. The kid should not have had a pellet gun in school, he should not have removed the safety tip, and he should have put down the pellet gun when ordered to do so. Any of these steps could have prevented the outcome, unfortunately none were taken.

 

[CPA]

Perhaps no lower velocity weapon should be allowed to look like the real thing, not that it wasn't dangerous enough as it is. If they knew what they were dealing with, perhaps certain shields and body armor could have forced the situation to resolve differently.

shhhhh, don't give the facts because the cop-haters in here would say that any clown could tell the difference, especially in a high-stress standoff.

As for the shields and body armor, come on, patrol don't carry those around with them.

 

[CPA]

Oh realllly? So if the situation was reversed, and your 15 year old kid was shot to death for holding a pellet gun, I suppose you wouldn't mind at all because he made some poor decisions. Do I have that right?

I certainly wouldn't blame the cops. Oh, and I have a 15 year old and an 18 year old. I would be sad, even upset, but if he was holding it up at the police, why would I blame them?

 

[woolfe9999]

I don't think know a single person who hasn't ever been in a fight. Congrats, I guess? There wasn't ever a time you felt like you had to stand up to someone, even for someone else?

Maybe it's because I was raised in the country, but I never thought fights were that big a deal. I avoided them because I was small, not particularly good at fighting (I especially had a hard time hitting someone in the face), and because I dislike getting my ass kicked (which I usually did), but it didn't really seem like a huge deal. Sometimes you even end up friends with the guy, and at the very least it keeps you from being bullied which seems worse to me than losing a little blood and a little hide, or sporting a shiner for a few days.

That may also be a benefit in being a little guy, since those good at fighting tend not to want to fight you. What's the point in whipping someone half your size? LOL

Jogging my memory, and it's amazing I forgot about this for so long, I did get into one fight, in sixth grade, with someone who had formerly been a friend. I got my nose bloodied if memory serves because I waded into it thinking he had no intention to actually hurt me. But he did. I had thought we were both horsing around, acting tough. In any event, the fight was pointless. I had blocked out that experience. It's probably one reason why I avoided fighting consistently.

In any event, I don't see the point in violence for any purpose other than self-defense. If the rest of the world felt the same way, then there'd be no need for self-defense either. As it is, the self-defense exception is unfortunately necessary. Otherwise, I make no exceptions. I suppose if some guy molested my daughter I would do it out of uncontrolled rage, but I don't believe in vigilantism. I believe in the rule of law, not the rule of the jungle.

- wolf

 

[janas19]

I didn't say anything about justice. I said it was a justifiable shooting. Of course it should not have happened. The kid should not have had a pellet gun in school, he should not have removed the safety tip, and he should have put down the pellet gun when ordered to do so. Any of these steps could have prevented the outcome, unfortunately none were taken.

Ok, ok, ok.

 

[werepossum]

Congratulations bfdd, you have brought new and never before seen luster to the words "douche bag" and "tool."

Bfdd agreed with me that it is sad that this had to happen, much as I agreed with him that the kid deserved it given his behavior. (Which is not to say he deserved it morally, but merely to say that given his behavior, getting shot is a perfectly reasonable consequence.)

In an ideal situation cops would carry shotguns with beanbag rounds and use that when shots have not yet been fired, but that requires carrying specialized gear, AND allows time during which the kid with the gun might well fire shots that kill other kid(s) who aren't acting like assholes, AND requires the cop to get pretty close which exposes him to much higher risk of deadly fire. As a policy, requiring non-lethals will on balance kill more innocent bystanders and more cops (because many guns are real in these situations) in return for killing fewer gun-wielding kids. Personally I'm not willing to tell the cops they have to take that chance, either with their own lives or with the other kids' lives. They need to honor the threat, and in this case I applaud their restraint. Two cops fire only three bullets at a gun-waving kid post-Columbine? I doubt I would have their restraint, which is one good reason I'm not a cop.

 

[bfdd]

Oh realllly? So if the situation was reversed, and your 15 year old kid was shot to death for holding a pellet gun, I suppose you wouldn't mind at all because he made some poor decisions. Do I have that right?

well i was once a 15 year old kid and if it had happened to me i would be ok being dead. i made a stupid decision and paid the ultimate price for it. sucks, but thankfully my friends and i knew a whole hell of a lot better than this retard.

 

[janas19]

well i was once a 15 year old kid and if it had happened to me i would be ok being dead. i made a stupid decision and paid the ultimate price for it. sucks, but thankfully my friends and i knew a whole hell of a lot better than this retard.

Well I lol'd but, still disagree

 

[woolfe9999]

well i was once a 15 year old kid and if it had happened to me i would be ok being dead. i made a stupid decision and paid the ultimate price for it. sucks, but thankfully my friends and i knew a whole hell of a lot better than this retard.

I don't think the kid deserved to die because he did something stupid. The police shooting him was probably valid under the circumstances, but that is not the same as saying he "deserved" to die. Saying he deserved it (in your OP) is saying that his death was a desired outcome. It was only a desired outcome, perhaps, if he was destined to be a career criminal who would never contribute anything non-negative to the world. That certainly cannot be determined because he did something stupid at age 15.

This was a sad situation where the police unfortunately did what they had to do.

 

[janas19]

I don't think the kid deserved to die because he did something stupid. The police shooting him was probably valid under the circumstances, but that is not the same as saying he "deserved" to die. Saying he deserved it (in your OP) is saying that his death was a desired outcome. It was only a desired outcome, perhaps, if he was destined to be a career criminal who would never contribute anything non-negative to the world. That certainly cannot be determined because he did something stupid at age 15.

This was a sad situation where the police unfortunately did what they had to do.

This.

 

[Bitek]

No, but the fact that the kid pulled the gun, then the cops were called, and by the time they got there not a single shot had been fired, you would think someone would think to themselves, "hmmm, this kid hasn't fired a single round, maybe the gun isn't even loaded, or maybe it's a pellet gun, or maybe he doesn't have the balls to pull the trigger". I just don't believe that trained professionals couldn't approach a kid in a school from some cover, and order him to drop the weapon.

Exactly.

This wasn't an adult, this wasn't at a bank but at a middle school, there were no hostages, no shots fired and the school was locked down. There didn't seem to be good situational awareness. Better cops have been able to talk down more dangerous people on worse situations before. Instead they killed an 8th grade band dork with a BB gun in front of his classmates.

Being a child, the cop has a duty to protect the kid from himself as well as everyone else. Kids are fk'ing retarded, barely formed human beings who are prone to doing crazy and illogical things for often no or poorly formed reasons. I am saying this as a parent and former teenager.

There has to be a pretty high bar to justifying shooting a child in a school. This was not a drunk in a bar.

Freaking out and assuming every stupid kid is the next Columbine is ridiculous. People need to stop being so afraid and relearn some sense.

No idea why this kid was acting like this, but you can bet its one of the std teen angst/tantrum reasons, anger over a girl, anger over a friend, depressed bc everyone has an iphone but him, anger bc he didn't make the football team, or got made fun of by some other idiot kid in school, or some other irrational reason brought on by a surge in hormones.
You can't put bullets in the head of a kid who's acting like a dumbass and isn't listening right away.

 

[dmcowen674]

8th Grader shot & killed by Police in Texas

Police Tase adults but shoot kids, brilliant.

Only in America