9500 Pro - I am really confused.....

[CyberBard]

Disclaimer: I know it is never certain that you will be able to pull of these hardware/software hacks, I just want to give myself the best chance.

I have been following all this and I am getting a little confused. I gather from different threads, that there is a way to turn a 9500 non Pro into a 9700 if its the right pcb, etc. What about the 9500 Pro? I ordered one, once again in a confused state, thinking it was the card I needed to get to TRY to alter it to get a 9700 Pro. Is this possible or do I need to get the 9700 non Pro to TRY and get a 9700 Pro?

Someone please clear this up for me................ASAP so I can make a decision about returning my card and ordering another overnight.......

Thanks in advance............

 

[GRagland]

You need a 9500 (nonpro) to do the mod which turns it into a 9700.
A 9500Pro cant be turned into a 9700.

You do know that the mod does not always work out though, right?

 

[GRagland]

Only get the 9500 nonpro if you are able to return it if you mess it up, or if you dont mind just having a plain 9500 nonpro if the mod does not work. Otherwise I would recommend getting the 9500Pro which is a good card.

 

[CyberBard]

Yep, the 9500 Pro is the card I got........well I will sleep on it and review my options in the morning.....

Thanks for the prompt answer..........

 

[CyberBard]

I am just having my typical buyers remorse after spending $1200+ on parts........I only get to upgrade every other year or so, so I have to do it right when i do.............

 

[Killrose]

With the 9500 Pro you know what performance you will get from it, garanteed. With the 9500np, you have no idea if it will work or not. Not all 9500np's can be successfully hacked to a 9700. Look at the results from the poll in this forum, not really too good.

If you decide to return your Pro and give the 9500np hack a try, then you need a card that looks like this:]Here

NOT This:bad very bad

Notice the memeory chip orientation? All the un-modifyable 9500 non-pro's have the chips running along the top.

 

[JuicyFruit]

My disclaimer: This is what worked for me. Check out the Rage3d site. You CAN mod the 9500Pro.

If yours is on red pcb, your chances are good. I've done one for myself and five for friends.

You can flash the bios, change its hardware ID so it's a 9700 and then o/c it. Mine's running at 330/310.

You need to read this. It's a HUGE read but after 10 or so pages, you should get the hang of it.

Anyhow, good luck man.

EDIT: It was really simple. Make a bootable floppy. Put the atiflash files and the fixed "9500warp" bios on it. Flash it. Restart. Go into windows, right click desktop, properties, settings, advanced, and under the chip type, it lists Radeon 9700AGP. Install the RadClocker software then jack up the core and mem speeds to 330/310.

That is how I did it all 6 times. Seriously.

Good luck again. Just read the Rage3d forums. All your answers are there.

Damnit, and another thing. When I was first starting to read up on this, Anandtech led me to believe you couldn't mod the 9500PRO. I read a little more and saw a few people say you could and they had linked Rage3d and I started reading there and bam, bought the damn card and tried it myself.

 

[Killrose]

Originally posted by: JuicyFruit
My disclaimer: This is what worked for me. Check out the Rage3d site. You CAN mod the 9500Pro.

If yours is on red pcb, your chances are good. I've done one for myself and five for friends.

You can flash the bios, change its hardware ID so it's a 9700 and then o/c it. Mine's running at 330/310.

You need to read this. It's a HUGE read but after 10 or so pages, you should get the hang of it.

Anyhow, good luck man.

EDIT: It was really simple. Make a bootable floppy. Put the atiflash files and the fixed "9500warp" bios on it. Flash it. Restart. Go into windows, right click desktop, properties, settings, advanced, and under the chip type, it lists Radeon 9700AGP. Install the RadClocker software then jack up the core and mem speeds to 330/310.

That is how I did it all 6 times. Seriously.

Good luck again. Just read the Rage3d forums. All your answers are there.

Wow, five of them? great success. Mine works great, although my mem is only stable upto 301MHz, the core however will do 360MHz with-out any artifacts. But I keep it @330/295

 

[mamisano]

JuicyFruit, what you simply did was allow your card to Overclock. It is still not going to compete with a Radeon 9700 class card because the 9500 Pro PHYSICALLY lacks the 256-bit memory Bus. SOME 9500 Non-Pros actually came with 256-bit Memory and THEY can be SOMETIMES be modded into 9700's

BTW, I would rather have my 9500 Pro @ 300/300 then take a chance at modding a 9500np. Just my .02.

 

[blcjr]

Someone please clear this up for me................ASAP so I can make a decision about returning my card and ordering another overnight.......

There are two primary differences between the 9500 and 9500 PRO. The 9500 has a 256-bit DDR memory bus, but only 4 pixel pipelines enabled. The 9500 PRO has a 128-bit DDR memory bus, but 8 pixel pipelines. The 9700 PRO has the best of both -- 256-bit DDR memory bus, and 8 pixel pipelines. (It also has slightly faster core/mem speeds.)

All 8 pipelines are there on the original PCB 9500's, but only 4 were enabled. What the Soft9700 mod does is enable all 8 pipelines. That doesn't guarantee that the pipelines are usable. But when they are, one has something like the 9700 PRO -- 256-bit DDR memory bus and 8 pixel pipelines, albeit with slightly slower core/mem speeds.

The 9500 PRO cannot be modded like this, because there is nothing to mod. The 8 pipelines are already enabled.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: mamisano
JuicyFruit, what you simply did was allow your card to Overclock. It is still not going to compete with a Radeon 9700 class card because the 9500 Pro PHYSICALLY lacks the 256-bit memory Bus. SOME 9500 Non-Pros actually came with 256-bit Memory and THEY can be SOMETIMES be modded into 9700's

BTW, I would rather have my 9500 Pro @ 300/300 then take a chance at modding a 9500np. Just my .02.

Yup, all true info here. I would also recommend a 9500 Pro vs a non-pro (not worth the risk) but personally I'd just go for the 9700. It's just an underclocked 9700 Pro (but with slower memory), however it has the same 256-bit memory bus so if you o/c it to 9700 speeds or around (very easy) then you have 9700 Pro performance. It's worth the extra amount of money, IMO.

 

[AnAndAustin]

blcjr no where near all 9500 nonPRO's used the 256bit DDR bus, only the very few on the 9700 PCB (a temp thing on part of the manu) which also had all 8 pipes but only 4 of them enabled (and tested to work BTW) and even then they had to have 128MB. So you need a Rad9500 nonPRO with 128MB AND using the 9700PCB (2 & 2 RAM chips config not 4 in a line). Even satisfying all that you have between a 25% and 50% chance of getting all 8 pieps working, and there's a BIG hit if you're running only 4 pipes even surpassing Rad9700PRO speeds on a 256bit RAM bus.

Listen to Killrose, avoiding the gamble and springing for a 9500PRO is the only sensible thing to do. You won't ever have the 256bit RAM but you are guaranteed all 8 pipes and MUCH better stock perf ... plus you tend to get better build quality & quality of components making for better o/c'ing. Most 9500PRO yield Rad9700 nonPRO perf, by raising the clock speeds beyond that of a 9700 you enable a faster clocked 128bit RAM bus to perf equally to the 9700's 256bit DDR. Of course the std 9700 will o/c to 9700PRO speeds and there you're guaranteed both 256bit RAM and 8 pipes! Rad9500PRO is an awesome choice so enjoy!

 

[Killrose]

Originally posted by: mamisano
JuicyFruit, what you simply did was allow your card to Overclock. It is still not going to compete with a Radeon 9700 class card because the 9500 Pro PHYSICALLY lacks the 256-bit memory Bus. SOME 9500 Non-Pros actually came with 256-bit Memory and THEY can be SOMETIMES be modded into 9700's

BTW, I would rather have my 9500 Pro @ 300/300 then take a chance at modding a 9500np. Just my .02.

Ya Juicyfruit, did you mean non pro? I hope so, because mamisano is right. You did nothing morethan change your device ID and allow for overclocking. You can't enable 256-bit on a Pro, it is stuck forever at 128-bit by PCB design.

 

[blcjr]

Originally posted by: AnAndAustin
blcjr no where near all 9500 nonPRO's used the 256bit DDR bus, only the very few on the 9700 PCB (a temp thing on part of the manu) which also had all 8 pipes but only 4 of them enabled (and tested to work BTW) and even then they had to have 128MB. So you need a Rad9500 nonPRO with 128MB AND using the 9700PCB (2 & 2 RAM chips config not 4 in a line). Even satisfying all that you have between a 25% and 50% chance of getting all 8 pieps working, and there's a BIG hit if you're running only 4 pipes even surpassing Rad9700PRO speeds on a 256bit RAM bus.

I don't dispute this. I happen to be one of the lucky ones.

 

[AnAndAustin]

LOL. I'm one of the lucky ones too ... I paid the extra £20 for the 9500PRO, I'd hate to be one of the unfortunates who took the gamble and are stuck with 4 pipes!

 

[jps2000]

Anyone know where to find the Radeon 9500 Pro BIOS that is unlocked.
I have checked and not found a valid link that works.

 

[Creig]

I'm one of the lucky ones, too. I paid $160 for a non-pro that works as a 9700. Even runs totally stable at 380/300. Even if it wasn't one of the good ones a stock 9500 is no slouch. And even less so when overclocked.

 

[JuicyFruit]

Originally posted by: Killrose

Originally posted by: mamisano
JuicyFruit, what you simply did was allow your card to Overclock. It is still not going to compete with a Radeon 9700 class card because the 9500 Pro PHYSICALLY lacks the 256-bit memory Bus. SOME 9500 Non-Pros actually came with 256-bit Memory and THEY can be SOMETIMES be modded into 9700's

BTW, I would rather have my 9500 Pro @ 300/300 then take a chance at modding a 9500np. Just my .02.

Ya Juicyfruit, did you mean non pro? I hope so, because mamisano is right. You did nothing morethan change your device ID and allow for overclocking. You can't enable 256-bit on a Pro, it is stuck forever at 128-bit by PCB design.

I think I got my terms mixed up but I have a 9500PRO that's on a red board, running 330/310. The success rate for these are great, IMO. I definitely wouldn't take the risk of messing up a 9500NP.

 

[AnAndAustin]

jps2000, check this out;

3Dchipset - flashing progs and info (look for Warp11's BIOS')

Esprit - Raid On Tweaker

Radeon2.ru - Radedit (ensure you do back up your orig BIOS)

SourceF - Radeon Tweaker

Mindspring - Warp11

Rage3D (excellent source for Radeon info & forums) - enabling 1280x960 res as some tweakers can screw it up

HTH!

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: JuicyFruit

Originally posted by: Killrose

Originally posted by: mamisano
JuicyFruit, what you simply did was allow your card to Overclock. It is still not going to compete with a Radeon 9700 class card because the 9500 Pro PHYSICALLY lacks the 256-bit memory Bus. SOME 9500 Non-Pros actually came with 256-bit Memory and THEY can be SOMETIMES be modded into 9700's

BTW, I would rather have my 9500 Pro @ 300/300 then take a chance at modding a 9500np. Just my .02.

Ya Juicyfruit, did you mean non pro? I hope so, because mamisano is right. You did nothing morethan change your device ID and allow for overclocking. You can't enable 256-bit on a Pro, it is stuck forever at 128-bit by PCB design.

I think I got my terms mixed up but I have a 9500PRO that's on a red board, running 330/310. The success rate for these are great, IMO. I definitely wouldn't take the risk of messing up a 9500NP.

The sucess rate of what? Unlocking the lock so you can overclock? Yes, you should be able to flash the BIOS and overclock any 9500 Pro with a 100% sucess rate (and they probably overclock well too), but you cannot switch to a 256-bit memory bus on a Radeon 9500 Pro. Windows may identify the chip as a 9700 Pro even, since it's the same core GPU, but it is indeed still an overclocked 9500 Pro, since you don't have the added bandwidth of a 9700 Pro. You are and will always be on a 128-bit memory bus; the 9500 Pro doesn't have the extra traces for a 256-bit bus on the PCB!

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: Killrose
With the 9500 Pro you know what performance you will get from it, garanteed. With the 9500np, you have no idea if it will work or not. Not all 9500np's can be successfully hacked to a 9700. Look at the results from the poll in this forum, not really too good. If you decide to return your Pro and give the 9500np hack a try, then you need a card that looks like this:]Here NOT This:bad very bad Notice the memeory chip orientation? All the un-modifyable 9500 non-pro's have the chips running along the top.

I got one the "bad very bad" ones

 

[b4u]

What are the real beneficts of doing all this mods?

I mean, is it worth it? You have an increase of some fps, but then again, there is the risk of it not working ... and you're streching the card, reducing it's life cycle ...

It's the same as with overclocking the CPU's ... you get some power, when in present days that extra power doesn't bring you real beneficts until a couple of months latter ... but even then, your CPU is outdated and the extra power doesn't mean you can stick a little more with it ... once outdated, allways outdated, with or without OCing it ...

That's my thought about the CPU overclocking, but I think the same thing about the graphical cards ... is it really worthy? And then when comes out a new driver release, you install it never knowing what will happen ...

Personally I would stick with the original. Just pick what you want (and your money can buy, of course), and you'll allways know what to expect from it ...

Just my opinion, if someone doesn't share the same, please leave your own ... we are allways learning.

I'm a proud owner of a Riva TNT2 M64 32Mb RAM ... can I mod it to a 9700Pro ... thought so ... ... see, I know what to expect from it

Cya

 

[IdBuRnS]

Originally posted by: Killrose
With the 9500 Pro you know what performance you will get from it, garanteed. With the 9500np, you have no idea if it will work or not. Not all 9500np's can be successfully hacked to a 9700. Look at the results from the poll in this forum, not really too good.

If you decide to return your Pro and give the 9500np hack a try, then you need a card that looks like this:]Here

NOT This:bad very bad

Notice the memeory chip orientation? All the un-modifyable 9500 non-pro's have the chips running along the top.

From the looks of your images the "bad very bad" card is a Saphire and from what I've heard they are almost guaranteed hackable to 9700 Pro specs. I have a buddy that has one and he has read of numerous succes stories, almost 100% success. I couldn't tell you the memory configuration of the card he is talking about though. From what I have read ATi is telling manufacturers that they can't use the 9700 Pro PCB anymore to put a stop to the unlocking.

 

[AnAndAustin]

If you have the '4 RAM chips in a line' type card then that is using a dedicated 9500/9500PRO PCB and therefore doesn't have any 256bit DDR bandwidth to utilise or enable, that is what is meant by 'modding'. Some Rad9500 cards did use the 9700PCB for a breif time, simply to get these cards out ASAP and was only ever intended as very short term solution. If companies followed ATI's directives they would have only released 64MB versions of the Rad9500nonPRO on 9700PCB which would make it impossible to utilise the 256bit DDR bus. Obviously a few companies released 128MB Rad9500nonPRO on the 9700PCB which ALWAYS had the 256bit DDR bus enabled, the only thing then differentiating this from a Rad9700nonPRO would then be 4 pipes instead of 8, which is VERY important. The modding was then to enable through either sw or hw ALL 8 pipes making it 100% equivilent to a true Rad9700 in EVERY way. Not only that but with a simple BIOS mod / flash the card could be o/c'ed to or VERY near Rad9700PRO speeds. However even if are lucky enough to have a 9500nonPRO with 128MB built on the 9700PCB (2 & 2 RAM chip design) the chances of enabling ALL 8 pipes was only 25-50% and without all 8 pipes the 256bit DDR bus is almost entirely wasted. You won't stop the unlocking since it is only BIOS/sw related, the UNLOCKING relates to enabling the adjustment of the clock speeds, something only the Rad9700PRO was meant to be able to do. Clearer?

Because of the nature of the industry it is far more cost effective and profitable to utilise identical technology as found on your top of the range products to produce an intentionally underclocked version which can be sold for a cheaper price and yet not get too near to the intended King of the technology. So for items which come under this category (GF3TI200, GF4TI4200, Rad9500, Rad9700, AthlonXP1600+, AthlonXP2400+, P4 1.8ghz, P4 2.6ghz etc) you are almost certain to gain an awful LOT by o/c'ing. The lower end item from the same range often used exactly the same core as the higher end ones, therefore they tended to have a LOT of headroom in them. So long as you go steadily, test thoroughly and back off a little when you do find the limits o/c'ing it virtually guarantees 10-30% perf boost in many components and doesn't add any remotely significant downsides, the worst thing you can do is run it too near to its limits or up the voltages. Of course you do need a degree of luck and should be prepared to get nothing but the default speeds, to dismiss o/c'ing some components isn't very wise, certainly for the vast majority of people.

EDIT: Alterred Rad9500PRO to 9500nonPRO 1 time (I knew I'd get it wrong at least once)!

 

[jps2000]

I was luck in getting a 9500 Pro on the old 9700 PCB (Red) but I still can not find a unlocked BIOS for its not on 3DChipsets anymore.
If anyone knows where to find it or has a copy let me know....
TIA....