980Ti advice

[IndyColtsFan]

I've been contemplating building a new system to replace the system in my signature. I've debated back and forth on what CPU (Haswell E? Skylake? Broadwell E? KabyLake?) to use, but one thing I definitely wanted to do was to upgrade my graphic card. My original thought was that I'd upgrade the system now and then buy a Pascal once released in the summer.

However, I've shifted my thinking a little bit and am thinking it might be a good idea to go ahead and jump on a 980Ti now and then build the system later this year, once Broadwell E is released (IIRC, KabyLake will also be released soon after Broadwell E, so I'll have another option if BW-E isn't to my liking). So, I'm thinking I should buy a 980Ti from Amazon over the next few days based on the following:

1. I have 10% rewards back from Amazon through 12/31, so I'll basically get 10% off right from the start.
2. I have a couple hundred in rewards already that can be applied to the 980Ti.
3. I can probably sell my Lightning 780 for $150 or so, or maybe I should just keep it as a dedicated PhysX card (thoughts?).

I'm leaning towards the MSI Lighting 980Ti. It is currently $730 on Amazon but has a $30 rebate and with my current rewards and 10% back, I'll get it for under $500. If I sell my 780, it will be even cheaper. My questions:

1. Is there a compelling reason NOT to go with the MSI Lightning? If so, what are other good options? I've been very happy with my Lightning 780.
2. I don't care too much about crazy overclocking, though I would like a card which is OCed out of the box.
3. Is it even worth upgrading at this stage? My 780 is 2 years old. Honestly it is fine in just about every game I play currently, but the upgrade itch is strong and buying a major component now helps me spread the cost of my total system upgrade over several months.

Thanks

 

[DooKey]

For that kind of price it's a no brainer. Grab that Lightning and enjoy it.

On the other hand you could consider saving your money and holding onto the 780 for another 8 months or so and upgrade to Pascal at that time. You could consider spending the money now on a new MB, CPU, and RAM and that way you'll be ready for a new video card this summer.

 

[TourGuide]

Unless I have money burning a hole in my pocket - I generally avoid the 'high line' cards like the lightning. I don't see the value trade off in performance as compared to the more run of the mill custom cards. This is especially true when taking into account that you're not planning on OCing this card - which is - supposedly - the value of the lighting. My advice would be to make your money stretch further - unless money is not a consideration.

 

[mojothehut]

Just throwing my hat in there. I have an EVGA Classified 980ti, very happy with it. Only beef is sometimes you can hear the fans "click" when they turn off. A custom fan profile fixes that though. I've used three of them now in different computers for people, their ASIC quality has been high, 73, 76 and my personal one 80

Cheaper than the lightning too

 

[RaistlinZ]

If you can get it for under $500 might as well splurge and enjoy yourself. The resale value on the Lightning tends to be pretty good. And since you won't be overclocking it'll be nice to have one OC'ed out of the box.

The Lightning should be about twice as fast as your 780 @ 1200p in Ultra settings.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

For that kind of price it's a no brainer. Grab that Lightning and enjoy it.

On the other hand you could consider saving your money and holding onto the 780 for another 8 months or so and upgrade to Pascal at that time. You could consider spending the money now on a new MB, CPU, and RAM and that way you'll be ready for a new video card this summer.

I think I missed the boat on upgrading my system now - I probably should've jumped on the $276 5820k or the $399 5930k, but I decided to wait for BW-E and what I imagine will be refreshed X99 boards. That's why I was thinking that maybe a GPU upgrade might be the right move now as I think it might be the biggest bang for the buck and who knows - it might convince me to skip a system upgrade altogether and hold out for Skylake-E.

Also, I just remembered that I actually have a $100 Amazon gift card I haven't yet used, so the price of that Lightning 980Ti will be under $400 out of pocket. I believe it will last me a solid 2 to 3 years as well.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Unless I have money burning a hole in my pocket - I generally avoid the 'high line' cards like the lightning. I don't see the value trade off in performance as compared to the more run of the mill custom cards. This is especially true when taking into account that you're not planning on OCing this card - which is - supposedly - the value of the lighting. My advice would be to make your money stretch further - unless money is not a consideration.

Yeah, I guess this is the kind of info I'm looking for - the good alternatives to the Lightning. The Classified appears to be about $70 cheaper, which is pretty substantial. I'll have to compare clocks to see what the differences are. I prefer the Lightning's cooler design, but maybe not for a $70 premium.

I remember when I bought my Lightning 780, the three top 780s were one of the EVGA models (might have been the Classified), a Galaxy model, and the Lightning. I just wasn't sure what the pecking order is in the 980Ti realm.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Oh, a couple other things:

1. How is the MSI 980ti which is under the Lightning (believe it is the Gaming 6G). It is $629 on Amazon.
2. What about keeping the 780 as a dedicated physx card? I remember seeing in one of the video card forums a recent thread where a guy showed a huge boost in performance by even having a middling graphic card dedicated to Physx. I need to see if I can find that thread again.

 

[TourGuide]

1.) I have that MSI card. I really like it. The performance is great and the cooler is very quiet. If I were you I'd try not to get all wrapped up in specs. That is what the marketing schmucks want you to do. Instead compare the bottom line - default clock performance and how many ACTUAL fps increase you're going to get when spending another $100 - no matter what product you choose or how much you spend. In game performance is the relevant metric when thinking about this decision.

2.) Not sure I can advise you on the PhysX card as I've not compared use with a dedicated card vs no dedicated card. As with SLI performance I think the degree to which the game uses PhysX would factor into it and of course for games that do not use the feature it would be a zero sum gain. My personal thought is - that the 980Ti has plenty of headroom power for PhysX processing currently.

Oh, a couple other things:

1. How is the MSI 980ti which is under the Lightning (believe it is the Gaming 6G). It is $629 on Amazon.
2. What about keeping the 780 as a dedicated physx card? I remember seeing in one of the video card forums a recent thread where a guy showed a huge boost in performance by even having a middling graphic card dedicated to Physx. I need to see if I can find that thread again.

 

[Subyman]

Unless you are planning to do some serious overclocking and enjoy benching as much as playing games, I'd skip the Lightning and get something cheaper. 980TIs OC pretty well, so getting to a basic overclock for games will be pretty easy no matter what you get. Get one with a decent custom cooler and enjoy. I'd save that $100 or so that the Lightning costs over a lower end model and put that toward the next system.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Unless you are planning to do some serious overclocking and enjoy benching as much as playing games, I'd skip the Lightning and get something cheaper. 980TIs OC pretty well, so getting to a basic overclock for games will be pretty easy no matter what you get. Get one with a decent custom cooler and enjoy. I'd save that $100 or so that the Lightning costs over a lower end model and put that toward the next system.

Yeah, you're right - the $100 savings will almost buy me the DDR4 RAM I need.

 

[RussianSensation]

Oh, a couple other things:

1. How is the MSI 980ti which is under the Lightning (believe it is the Gaming 6G). It is $629 on Amazon.
2. What about keeping the 780 as a dedicated physx card? I remember seeing in one of the video card forums a recent thread where a guy showed a huge boost in performance by even having a middling graphic card dedicated to Physx. I need to see if I can find that thread again.

Don't waste your time using 780 as a dedicated PhysX card. At that point you could just pick up a used 650/750. Sell the 780 to subsidize a part of the upgrade cost. Are you going to be running that 980Ti across multiple 1080p/1200p screens because a single 980Ti for a single 60Hz 1080p/1200p 24" screen is $ wasted. You could easily coast on a 780 + OC until Pascal if that's the case.

You also mention this point:

3. Is it even worth upgrading at this stage? My 780 is 2 years old. Honestly it is fine in just about every game I play currently, but the upgrade itch is strong and buying a major component now helps me spread the cost of my total system upgrade over several months.

Thanks

What's the point of upgrading if your card is giving you satisfactory results?

1. You aren't getting any 980Ti at some amazing deal. In fact, the opposite of that - $630 for a 980Ti that is now 7 months old, or just $20 off MSRP back in May of 2015. I don't know how that's a good deal in any way for aging tech in one of the worst overpriced generations due to 28nm node.

2. It's not as if your 780 is about to plummet in resale value since you already missed the perfect timing to sell it. That means unlike 980Ti that will drop in value like a rock in 2016, 780 will barely lose any more value if you keep using it.

3. What is the backlog of your existing titles that you wish to play? If 780 OC can handle most of those at your monitor's native resolution, why spend $600+ on a 980Ti? Recall November 2013 $699 780Ti -> September 2014 GTX970 $330. I remember as soon as 970 came out, 780Ti plummeted to $375-400 on Newegg and then 1 week later some 780Ti cards could be bought for $350-365. This $275-300 price drop happened in a matter of days but 780Ti retained its $630-650 pricing all the way until 970's launch. That's why the longer you wait to buy a flagship $600+ price from its launch date, the more likely there is a risk of this scenario because new technology is getting closer and closer to release.

Next generation should offer the biggest increases in price/performance and performance because both brands are bringing: (1) New GPU architectures (2) full node shrink (3) GDDR5X/HBM2 memory. This is going to be reminiscent of Fermi -> Kepler and if you look at that generation as a guidance, just look at $500 GTX580 -> $299 660Ti (as fast as the 580 for $200 less) /$499 680 (35% faster) and then 780Ti which was 2X faster than the 580.

If you do decide to buy a 980Ti now, maybe consider an EVGA version so that at least you have 90-day step-up option just in case. Also EVGA SC+ is quiet. Otherwise, I'd try to find the absolutely cheapest after-market 980Ti I could find to minimize the TCO.

The way I look at it you actually had the right idea of upgrading your entire rig around Broadwell-E and then re-evaluating the GPU upgrade choice around summer of 2016. Don't you also have to pay taxes on purchases off Amazon? In that case the total price discount via Amazon after taxes doesn't seem that special against the typical $600 US price that 980Ti can be found for on Newegg.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Don't waste your time using 780 as a dedicated PhysX card. At that point you could just pick up a used 650/750. Sell the 780 to subsidize a part of the upgrade cost. Are you going to be running that 980Ti across multiple 1080p/1200p screens because a single 980Ti for a single 60Hz 1080p/1200p 24" screen is $ wasted. You could easily coast on a 780 + OC until Pascal if that's the case.

You also mention this point:



What's the point of upgrading if your card is giving you satisfactory results?

1. You aren't getting any 980Ti at some amazing deal. In fact, the opposite of that - $630 for a 980Ti that is now 7 months old, or just $20 off MSRP back in May of 2015. I don't know how that's a good deal in any way for aging tech in one of the worst overpriced generations due to 28nm node.

2. It's not as if your 780 is about to plummet in resale value since you already missed the perfect timing to sell it. That means unlike 980Ti that will drop in value like a rock in 2016, 780 will barely lose any more value if you keep using it.

3. What is the backlog of your existing titles that you wish to play? If 780 OC can handle most of those at your monitor's native resolution, why spend $600+ on a 980Ti? Recall November 2013 $699 780Ti -> September 2014 GTX970 $330. I remember as soon as 970 came out, 780Ti plummeted to $375-400 on Newegg and then 1 week later some 780Ti cards could be bought for $350-365. This $275-300 price drop happened in a matter of days but 780Ti retained its $630-650 pricing all the way until 970's launch. That's why the longer you wait to buy a flagship $600+ price from its launch date, the more likely there is a risk of this scenario because new technology is getting closer and closer to release.

Next generation should offer the biggest increases in price/performance and performance because both brands are bringing: (1) New GPU architectures (2) full node shrink (3) GDDR5X/HBM2 memory. This is going to be reminiscent of Fermi -> Kepler and if you look at that generation as a guidance, just look at $500 GTX580 -> $299 660Ti (as fast as the 580 for $200 less) /$499 680 (35% faster) and then 780Ti which was 2X faster than the 580.

If you do decide to buy a 980Ti now, maybe consider an EVGA version so that at least you have 90-day step-up option just in case. Also EVGA SC+ is quiet. Otherwise, I'd try to find the absolutely cheapest after-market 980Ti I could find to minimize the TCO.

The way I look at it you actually had the right idea of upgrading your entire rig around Broadwell-E and then re-evaluating the GPU upgrade choice around summer of 2016. Don't you also have to pay taxes on purchases off Amazon? In that case the total price discount via Amazon after taxes doesn't seem that special against the typical $600 US price that 980Ti can be found for on Newegg.

Because I want a new card and have a lot of spare rewards and gift money now. It really is that simple - I want to do the card or CPU/board now. I don't want to wait until the mid to end of the year for everything. I mean, like I said, my plan was to do the board/CPU first and then Pascal but I just don't think there is anything that compelling on the board/CPU front at this stage to justify replacing the 2600K, though Fry's does have the 5930K on sale this week. Graphic cards typically last me 2-3 years as well, so if I got a 980 Ti (or even waited for Pascal), it will be my GPU for 2 years minimum. And yeah, I would like to play across the 3 screens but haven't done much of that yet because to be honest, I've had some issues with NVidia's drivers. The last driver update I did seemed to fix many of my issues though.

I picked up a 1000 W EVGA Platinum power supply on one of Newegg's holiday sales for the new build, but assuming I wait for Pascal AND BW-E, not sure what other components I could buy in the meantime. It doesn't make sense to buy RAM because it might drop in price more. I plan on using existing drives in the new build as well unless that 2 TB SSD magically drops into the $300 range by then. I could possibly look at a new case, but I don't want a big case sitting around for 6-8 months while I wait.


EDIT: I have to pay taxes on both Amazon AND Newegg purchases (Newegg has a facility about 10 minutes from me, which I've used for will calls many times), so it is a wash between those two. The difference is that I have a $100 gift card to use on Amazon and if I buy from Amazon before 12/31, I get another 10% rewards from my Chase Freedom.

 

[RussianSensation]

Graphic cards typically last me 2-3 years as well, so if I got a 980 Ti (or even waited for Pascal), it will be my GPU for 2 years minimum.

Have you considered the EVGA Hybrid 980Ti since your budget stretches to a Lightning?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtRqmzRMar8

Or if you don't care to overclock, Zotac AMP! Extreme has the highest overclock out of the box.
http://www.amazon.com/ZOTAC-GeForce...d=1451275744&sr=8-6&keywords=msi+gaming+980ti

Then there is the Classified 980Ti for $660.

MSI Gaming 980Ti is also a great card closer to the $600 mark.

Gigabyte G1 Gaming 980Ti for $650 AR is also very good.

You cannot go wrong with any of these and overclocking will be almost pure luck of the draw. The main differences will be noise levels, temperatures and warranty support and clocks out of the box.

You can browse reviews on TechPowerUP and Guru3D as most of these cards have already been reviewed. Some reviews like this one have multiple 980Ti cards to compare quickly:
http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/msi-geforce-gtx-980-ti-lightning-review,14.html

Gigabyte G1 980Ti has binned ASICs. For the price and balance of noise levels, it's hard to beat the MSI Gaming 980Ti.

 

[Mondozei]

The 980 Ti LE is one of the most quiet cards out there, bar none. It has a monstrous factory OC, but it is really the thermals and the very low noise levels that impresses me the most.

Usually such a low noise level is associated with a cost: high temperatures. However, MSI has done some miracles with their LE fans and the load temperature is a shockingly low 65 Celsius. Such a figure is impressive on its own, yes, but not unheard of. It is only in combination with the very quiet operation of the fans that such a result truly becomes significant if not outright amazing.

The performance of the GPU is amazing, of course, as all LE are.

The trickier prospect is the issue of upgrade time. We're looking at the back to school timeframe for the next GPUs. That means August or even September.

Yes, performance will be higher, but the early cards will also have de facto inferior fan/thermal solutions compared to the 980 Ti. Additionally, a 980 Ti LE will be plenty enough for anything at 1440p or below this year, next year and the year after that, at the very minimum. Quite possibly even longer than that.

We are now moving into our third year of the current-gen platform. This is it. This is the limit of their performance. We aren't going to see drastically better visual performance than this. The only way to increase IQ(image quality) henceforth is to scale the resolution up or buying a HDR monitor(which must then be matched by a game which supports it) or getting an OLED display - or doing all three.

In other words, unless you're going to upgrade your monitor to 4K in the coming years, a 980 Ti LE will be enough for you. How much you value quiet operation is of course of individual taste, but for someone like me, I wouldn't rush to upgrade to Pascal from a monster GPU like the 980 Ti LE, especially as we've hit a performance wall with the new consoles. It might make more sense to upgrade to GP100 LE, which is likely to be out in mid/late 2017.

Anyway, those are my two cents. Have fun with the upgrade(whichever way you choose to go)!

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Yeah, the Lightning LE interests me but unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be a card carried by Amazon. Newegg does carry it but it would cost me quite a bit more out-of-pocket since I couldn't get the 10% reward and use some of my other rewards and gift cards. The MSI Gaming and EVGA Classified cards were other cards I looked at as well and are carried by Amazon, so those are definitely options.

I also share some of your concerns with the initial wave of Pascal cards and believe we may even see a slight delay. Still, one thing I have considered is to perhaps get a 5820K or the 5930K and X99 now, wait for Pascal, and then I'd have a CPU upgrade path in the future as I could always buy a BW-E with 8 or 10 cores in the future and use it in the same board. 4K gaming probably isn't in the cards for me for another 2 to 3 years to be honest so that would be a concern for my GPU upgrade cycle AFTER this cycle.

 

[guskline]

I have a single EVGA GTX980TI SC in my 5960x rig and love it. I have it water cooled and it is rock solid. I've owned a EVGA GTX780 Classified and this card is much faster.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I have a single EVGA GTX980TI SC in my 5960x rig and love it. I have it water cooled and it is rock solid. I've owned a EVGA GTX780 Classified and this card is much faster.

Thanks gus - EVGA has so many different models that it gets pretty confusing for me. I'll check that one out too.

 

[moonbogg]

It sounds like you are bouncing back and forth quite a bit between upgrading your GPU or CPU platform. You are stuck in the middle of a generation in both cases. You are half way to Pascal and you are also half way to Skylake-E.
The options now are 5930k or 980ti. You want to spend good money for fresh, hot tech. But there is no fresh, hot tech to be found for another 6-9 months for GPU and a solid year for CPU.
In other words, your brain is short circuiting. As a result of this malfunction, you must bypass the brain and rely on someone else's to make a choice for you.
Purchase the MSI Gaming 980ti and forget it ever happened. Your FPS will increase for some reason and you won't know why. See you at Skylake-E and Pascal, brother. Until then, stay strong. You can do this.

 

[Arachnotronic]

It sounds like you are bouncing back and forth quite a bit between upgrading your GPU or CPU platform. You are stuck in the middle of a generation in both cases. You are half way to Pascal and you are also half way to Skylake-E.
The options now are 5930k or 980ti. You want to spend good money for fresh, hot tech. But there is no fresh, hot tech to be found for another 6-9 months for GPU and a solid year for CPU.
In other words, your brain is short circuiting. As a result of this malfunction, you must bypass the brain and rely on someone else's to make a choice for you.
Purchase the MSI Gaming 980ti and forget it ever happened. Your FPS will increase for some reason and you won't know why. See you at Skylake-E and Pascal, brother. Until then, stay strong. You can do this.

What a great post

:thumbsup:

 

[IndyColtsFan]

It sounds like you are bouncing back and forth quite a bit between upgrading your GPU or CPU platform. You are stuck in the middle of a generation in both cases. You are half way to Pascal and you are also half way to Skylake-E.
The options now are 5930k or 980ti. You want to spend good money for fresh, hot tech. But there is no fresh, hot tech to be found for another 6-9 months for GPU and a solid year for CPU.

Bingo - I know you read my posts in the CPU forum and I've still gone back and forth on whether to jump on a 5820K or 5930K now and then Pascal later OR a 980 TI now and BW-E or even SKL-E later.

In other words, your brain is short circuiting. As a result of this malfunction, you must bypass the brain and rely on someone else's to make a choice for you.
Purchase the MSI Gaming 980ti and forget it ever happened. Your FPS will increase for some reason and you won't know why. See you at Skylake-E and Pascal, brother. Until then, stay strong. You can do this.

HAHA! Yeah, I was thinking that the 980 Ti will be good enough to make me skip BW-E and hold out for SKL-E. In addition to everything you wrote above, I'll be completely honest - I know I don't "need" to upgrade any of my components. They work well for me. But the upgrade itch is STRONG and I know a 980 Ti will definitely help in my CURRENT system, which is another reason I was thinking about going that route. Plus, with this 10% reward from Amazon, I have a golden opportunity to save some cash on a nice card and I HATE to pass those opportunities up.

Why don't more people recommend the EVGA FTW version of the 980 Ti? It seems the Classified is the one with the recommendations but the FTW has the same clocks but is cheaper.

 

[moonbogg]

Bingo - I know you read my posts in the CPU forum and I've still gone back and forth on whether to jump on a 5820K or 5930K now and then Pascal later OR a 980 TI now and BW-E or even SKL-E later.



HAHA! Yeah, I was thinking that the 980 Ti will be good enough to make me skip BW-E and hold out for SKL-E. In addition to everything you wrote above, I'll be completely honest - I know I don't "need" to upgrade any of my components. They work well for me. But the upgrade itch is STRONG and I know a 980 Ti will definitely help in my CURRENT system, which is another reason I was thinking about going that route. Plus, with this 10% reward from Amazon, I have a golden opportunity to save some cash on a nice card and I HATE to pass those opportunities up.

Why don't more people recommend the EVGA FTW version of the 980 Ti? It seems the Classified is the one with the recommendations but the FTW has the same clocks but is cheaper.

People think the classified is better. Its not. Its just more expensive. Realize that this is a trap. They charge you more for the same card due to its higher perceived value. Its real value is the same as any other after market 980ti. Reference cards are louder and can't maintain clock speeds due to throttling. After market designs fixed that.
You start really splitting hairs when comparing one aftermarket 980ti to another, and sometimes you can really waste a lot of money, such as on the MSI Lightning. Its a nice card, but lets be honest as hell here. Between a lightning and even a reference card during a blind test, almost no one would be able to spot any difference. That's because the difference in FPS will still translate to basically the same gaming experience.
Buy the gaming version of the card or another after market card around $600. You will net a good OC on any of them of 1400+. You will spend much less on it with all your coupons and stuff than if you were to buy the lightning. Feel good about getting a fast card now for cheap, and feel better about not wasting cash on a lightning. Feel better when Skylake-E and BIG Pascal hit the streets, because by then, you'll be ready and I'll see you there. Bring your war face, soldier.

 

[scooterider]

Moore's law - is the observation that, over the history of computing hardware, the number of transistors in a dense integrated circuit has doubled approximately every two years and it seems to happen that way so far, That's why I keep building a new tower about every two years or so, I can't help myself, probably never will, unless it looks like moore's law goes down.

 

[energee]

The 980 Ti LE is one of the most quiet cards out there, bar none. It has a monstrous factory OC, but it is really the thermals and the very low noise levels that impresses me the most.

The GTX 980Ti LE by MSI shouldn't be confused with their Lightening edition -- they're two different cards. Individuals seem to refer to the former as the "Light Edition", but curiously MSI's official site lacks any details -- there was no listing of the card last I checked. Maybe someone reading this has more information on the card they could share.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

The GTX 980Ti LE by MSI shouldn't be confused with their Lightening edition -- they're two different cards. Individuals seem to refer to the former as the "Light Edition", but curiously MSI's official site lacks any details -- there was no listing of the card last I checked. Maybe someone reading this has more information on the card they could share.

My understanding is that basically, the Lightning LE isn't clocked as high as the Lightning and doesn't have the LN2 bios option. The Lightning probably uses higher binned chips than the Lightning LE but I haven't actually seen that confirmed.