99-2003 Porsche 911 Cheap

Ferzerp

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,438
107
106
Never take anything that guy posts at face value. He typically posts some of the most retarded suggestions that anyone has ever put forward.

Jalopnik pretty much only sticks them on the front page as click bait for all the comments telling him how much of an idiot he is.

Note, I didn't read the article. I just saw who posted it and immediately closed it.
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,513
221
106
Never take anything that guy posts at face value. He typically posts some of the most retarded suggestions that anyone has ever put forward.

Jalopnik pretty much only sticks them on the front page as click bait for all the comments telling him how much of an idiot he is.

Note, I didn't read the article. I just saw who posted it and immediately closed it.

I read through a bunch of comments and did not see a single negative one. Just FYI.
 

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
38,107
433
136
I find him at least more tolerable than that idiot DeMuro. Of course his suggestions are not for ordinary people but there is some joy in it for car people. That kind of logic is why I own the cars I do.

DeMuro on the other hand is just a raging moron.

Viper GTS
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,560
8
0
ya he just rehashed what most of us knew of the IMS. Great values right now



I still would prefer a higher mileage 996 or boxster since the IMS usually blew before 70k miles. I would be more worried about a car that has sat with low miles. Those engines dont like to be driven at low revs either. Gotta do an italian tune up often
 

Insomniator

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2002
6,294
171
106
I don't trust his stories to much, but that doesn't mean I didn't search around online for what those 911's go for around me

Porsche's overall seem like really good values in the used market. Lots of mid life crisis cars that have low miles. If I ever get the balls to do it, I HAVE to buy a 911 or Cayman for the ~$25k they go for with under 50k miles.
 

DeviousTrap

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2002
4,841
0
71
I :wub: mine.



The IMS is largely an overblown issue. At this point, most cars have had them replaced, and if not, sellers know that it's a big sticking point with buyers, so they price the repair into the sale price (or do it themselves). For 20k, you can now find a well sorted one, or a little cheaper and budget $2,500 to do IMS, clutch, and rear main seal (since you're already there, you do it all as a set).

There was a big refresh for 2002, bigger engine, new front end, some interior changes, etc. If you can spend the few extra $, aim for '02-04, rather than the earlier cars.
 
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yoda5

Member
Dec 10, 2014
36
0
66
The 996 is a good value especially if the IMS preventative maintenance has been done. But what I really want is a 996 Turbo.
 

drbrock

Golden Member
Feb 8, 2008
1,333
8
81
I :wub: mine.



The IMS is largely an overblown issue. At this point, most cars have had them replaced, and if not, sellers know that it's a big sticking point with buyers, so they price the repair into the sale price (or do it themselves). For 20k, you can now find a well sorted one, or a little cheaper and budget $2,500 to do IMS, clutch, and rear main seal (since you're already there, you do it all as a set).

There was a big refresh for 2002, bigger engine, new front end, some interior changes, etc. If you can spend the few extra $, aim for '02-04, rather than the earlier cars.

I would get your exact car(wheels make that car) but maybe get the convertible. Never had a convertible and always wanted one before I get married.

The article says it is very reliable after you update it. Is that true? What does that exactly mean? No issues? A ton of expensive maintenance? How long do the tires last, 15k?
 

Ferzerp

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,438
107
106
What do you consider expensive maintenance? Cars depreciate, but their maintenance costs don't. The baseline tends to stay the same, so you're still maintaining an expensive car regardless of what you pay for it, and you're at the point where things start to break so you have even more cost there.
 

DeviousTrap

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2002
4,841
0
71
I would get your exact car(wheels make that car) but maybe get the convertible. Never had a convertible and always wanted one before I get married.

The article says it is very reliable after you update it. Is that true? What does that exactly mean? No issues? A ton of expensive maintenance? How long do the tires last, 15k?

It's a little hard to say. The problem with them is the engines are prohibitively expensive, think 10-20k, so they're approaching the value of the car. That means the forums are full of fear-mongering and people talking about how their engines exploded. Realistically, you have a single digit (way under 5 chance) percent chance of a catastrophic failure that you should understand. That would be completely not-ok with any other car, but somehow that's what it's looking like with the 996 generation. After-all, these were $100k cars, so realize you're playing with the grownups. I wouldn't buy it if you couldn't (and nobody wants to), budget for one large repair.

That being said, mine has the IMS done and I'm not worrying about it. Other trouble spots are RMS (rear main seal), done the same time as IMS, and AOS (air oil separator). That last one is a $60 part, but over a grand in labor as you're dropping the engine. That's really about it for the "usuals".

Routine maintenance is the same as any high end German car, but nothing like an S-Class benz. They're genuinely pretty simple cars and very DIY-able. I did the starter ($300 for Porsche part, $120 for my generic) in mine in a couple hours a few weekends ago. Parts are expensive, but not prohibitively so. An OEM oil filter is something like $26, but BMW charges the same for their V8 filters. I cracked my oil pan just last week, but my car is absurdly low and that's a fluke. Part cost was $168, no big deal. Other than that, I've also had to replace a window regulator ($250 OEM part, bought after the $90 aftermarket ebay one sucked).

One thing to keep in mind is the newest one of these cars is now 10 years old. You're at the point where you'll have to replace miscellaneous parts that are just getting old. Everything has a lifespan, whether that's something like coils, or a just a random rubber hose that's degrading. Catalytic converters wear out too and depending on how you replace them, you could be looking at a $500 job welding in generics, or a $3,000 exhaust.

Rear tires, yes, you'll blow through them. 8-15k depending on your lead foot. Fronts, double that. The previous owner of my car ran Michelin PS2s, where each rear is $450. Tons of cheaper alternatives out there, if you're not shooting for the best.

Now that I'm done scaring you, I truly love it. It's the first Porsche that's really daily driveable. I trust that it'll start every morning and wouldn't hesitate to take it anywhere. Mine's got 85k miles now and no reason it wouldn't do double that. And it's funny you mention the wheels. Here's the before/after when I switched to snow tires.
 
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jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,513
221
106
What do you consider expensive maintenance? Cars depreciate, but their maintenance costs don't. The baseline tends to stay the same, so you're still maintaining an expensive car regardless of what you pay for it, and you're at the point where things start to break so you have even more cost there.

Is it that bad, really? I had a CTS-V and now have an LX450 and nothing is ridiculous. Neither of them were cheap new. Granted, I do my own labor.
 

Ferzerp

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,438
107
106
Is it that bad, really? I had a CTS-V and now have an LX450 and nothing is ridiculous. Neither of them were cheap new. Granted, I do my own labor.

It's not necessarily bad, it's just that if you can't afford to maintain the car new, you definitely can't afford to maintain it after it is 7-10 years old.

As an (admittedly horrible) example, if you go with Porsche carbon ceramic brakes, you're looking at $4,000 - $5,000 per rotor for replacement. GM CC rotors are more like $1,500 each (Actually, the ZR1 fronts can be had for about $900 each off amazon). Sure, this is the most egregious example that I can think of off the top of my head, but it's a good illustration. The parts just cost quite a bit more. If you don't do the labor yourself, and use a Porsche dealer, the labor is also quite a bit more.
 
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jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,513
221
106
It's not necessarily bad, it's just that if you can't afford to maintain the car new, you definitely can't afford to maintain it after it is 7-10 years old.

As an (admittedly horrible) example, if you go with Porsche carbon ceramic brakes, you're looking at $4,000 - $5,000 per rotor for replacement. GM CC rotors are more like $1,500 each (Actually, the ZR1 fronts can be had for about $900 each off amazon). Sure, this is the most egregious example that I can think of off the top of my head, but it's a good illustration. The parts just cost quite a bit more. If you don't do the labor yourself, and use a Porsche dealer, the labor is also quite a bit more.

 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,513
221
106
lol i came to respond with that exact face

That is... outrageous.

There's a few more details, though - from what I've read, you'll get (non-track) 100k+ out of the ceramic discs, and you can swap to regular ones (which are normally priced).
 
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rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
4,389
3,120
146
I find tavarish and demuro both to be entertaining, I don't expect actual journalism from them.

I will admit the 2003 RS6 with 170k miles was a serious WTF from Tavarish tho.
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
0
Saw this article today that I thought it was interesting. I am not a Porsche guy at all so I won't be doing this project but for those who are I can see this being a DIY weekender.


http://carbuying.jalopnik.com/how-to-own-a-ridiculously-cheap-and-reliable-porsche-91-1668638286

I had a 02 911 4S. The engines can be hit and miss, specifically the '99 has casting issues in the heads. The IMS issue is pretty overblown, given the amount of solutions out there (spray oil at it, oil bearing, replace every 40K blah blah).

Phenomenal value though, I will most likely pick up another one in the near future. Shooting for a 99 aero with the 220 (LSD) option. Lightest, last year of the LSD option and mechanical throttle.

Generally speaking, if you lease a camry or a maxima and maintain that anything used thats not honda is expensive to own (OMG USED BMW WILL MURDER YOU FAMILY), you should stay away.

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/dvj0fu99jpl4wdh/AAAlbDpThfzidGj6qyjNMD2Ba
 
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drbrock

Golden Member
Feb 8, 2008
1,333
8
81
Great looking cars. Too rich for my blood. I couldn't do a 5k brake job. No wonder they are so cheap. I was thinking 500-700 for new brakes. Tire cost/window rotors, random tiny things breaking, I can deal with. I liked my friends new Cayman S but not enough to be forking over serious money. Liked getting all the looks. But that also comes with other things. Some dbag put empty beer cans on it while I was shopping at the grocery store. Had the car a total of one and a half hours. Too many haters that might key or damage the car because they can't afford it.

Personally I would rather have the LX450 jlee has considering the costs. Fit my bike in there and ride in luxury. I know totally different cars....

Devious, those winter tires change the look of that car entirely. I think you should just forget about the winterization lol.
 
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halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
0
Great looking cars. Too rich for my blood. I couldn't do a 5k brake job. No wonder they are so cheap. I was thinking 500-700 for new brakes. I liked my friends new Cayman S but not enough to be forking serious money.

Personally I would rather have the LX450 jlee has considering the costs.

Devious, those winter tires change the look of that car entirely. I think you should just forget about the winterization lol.

Are you buying new carbon rotors from porsche?
 

Ferzerp

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,438
107
106
I tried to make sure it was obvious that I was picking a crazy example. If it wasn't obvious I will restate it. The cc rotors are the craziest part I know of off the top of my head. Other maintenance items aren't nearly so bad.
 

drbrock

Golden Member
Feb 8, 2008
1,333
8
81
No but I was looking in general for brakes and they seemed pricey. Looking at 2k for new rotors. Maybe I am wrong. I didn't look that hard at all. Either way I would not buy this car regardless of cost. I think they look great but I am looking for a different type of performance. I like the throw you back in your seat power vs handling if I am going for a sports car.

Ferz I knew that was an outrageous part. Who puts that on a stock 911. I can see a turbo model but not the regular one.

I would like to get a 66 Shelby Hertz restomod but I can't find one anywhere. Even Barrett Jackson Palm Beach doesn't have many mustangs that are what I am looking for. Realistically I am looking at a Viper or a late corvette when I get into the sports car game. The new Shelby mustangs look great but I can't justify 45-60k on the new designs. Stellar performance but for that kind of money I want a little bit of head turning.
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,560
8
0
cost of repair outside of an engine drop is in line with owning a 3 series e46. Some things like the carbon brakes are outrageous but if you have a turbo 996 then your not worried about that. You can also replace them with regulars if you so wanted.


I flipped one two years ago and picked it up with a bad clutch. Did IMS retro when clutch was done and sold it to a PCCA member who was looking for one with a sorted ims. I wanted to keep it but the wife wanted to vacation instead ><



http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/SuperCat/996J/POR_996J_BRKPAD_pg1.htm
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,513
221
106
I tried to make sure it was obvious that I was picking a crazy example. If it wasn't obvious I will restate it. The cc rotors are the craziest part I know of off the top of my head. Other maintenance items aren't nearly so bad.

Yeah, I got that I just wasn't sure if there was an alternative (i.e. replace with a less crazy part), so I looked it up.
 
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