~'99 Regal GS Shopping

[videogames101]

I'm looking to buy a used car, because I'm in college and can't afford the one I really want.

Anyway, I was looking to spend around $3k for a used car that wasn't a toyota. Hopefully something with under 100k miles and 200+ horsepower that wasn't going to be beat to hell, a tall order indeed.

But I did find one of the most unique cars I've seen, the factory supercharged Regal GS from a decade ago. Seriously, 200+ HP in a Buick, and fortunately for me Buick owners don't tend to abuse their cars.

I've read a bit about the 3800 II engine of the era, and noticed this massive issue with the intake manifold. Between melting, the gaskets leaking, and essentially being designed like shit I figure I'll pretty much have to replace the upper manifold along with the manifold gaskets and the host of electronics that get destroyed from leaking oil/coolant. Apart from that, I've heard the trannys are good to something like 200k, which is nice.

So, questions for the wise on ATG:

-Common Issues?
-Alternatives around the same price point?
-Common rust/corrosion/rot areas? (I'm shopping in New England)
-Other advice?

1999 seems like a good year because it came with a factory installed Strut Tower Brace, which is cool - but really if I find the right car the year is sort of moot. I've seen a ton of examples with 100k-150k, which may be what I settle for.

Thanks!

 

[Jimzz]

Yea the 3.8 was a great motor. Other than the intake and intake gaskets I can't think of any major issues. The older 3.8 had some bad harmonic balancers but I think that was fixed by the Gen2 models.

The trans would last between 125-200k on average from what I have seen. I got about 180k out of my Gen 1 3.8 auto trans before it went. Motor was still going strong.

Now the supercharged ones put more wear on the trans and also many did not know the super charger required maintaince. So look at the trans fluid and see if the supercharger was serviced.

 

[videogames101]

Yea the 3.8 was a great motor. Other than the intake and intake gaskets I can't think of any major issues. The older 3.8 had some bad harmonic balancers but I think that was fixed by the Gen2 models.

The trans would last between 125-200k on average from what I have seen. I got about 180k out of my Gen 1 3.8 auto trans before it went. Motor was still going strong.

Now the supercharged ones put more wear on the trans and also many did not know the super charger required maintaince. So look at the trans fluid and see if the supercharger was serviced.

Thanks for the input, will definitely check the trans fluid.

As for the supercharger, what kind of service is it supposed to get? If it wasn't serviced, what kind of symptoms might I see? I figured going in to check on the cars I would just take a look at the boost gauge and make sure it was around 7 lbs as I've read it should put out. Perhaps there is something else I could check on besides boost output? I'm just worried that these 13 or 14 year old cars won't have anywhere close to compete service records, so being able to check if it was serviced might not be possible.

 

[Jimzz]

Thanks for the input, will definitely check the trans fluid.

As for the supercharger, what kind of service is it supposed to get? If it wasn't serviced, what kind of symptoms might I see? I figured going in to check on the cars I would just take a look at the boost gauge and make sure it was around 7 lbs as I've read it should put out. Perhaps there is something else I could check on besides boost output? I'm just worried that these 13 or 14 year old cars won't have anywhere close to compete service records, so being able to check if it was serviced might not be possible.

The supercharger has oil in it and needs to be changed. Most do not know this and can damage the supercharger if it gets low or burns up. If it goes bad it usually makes a lot of noise but may have other issues as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hngsrdSgfDY

 

[MegaFlop]

I had a 98 Regal GS. It was a great car and I put about 80K miles on it with only normal maintenance.

The basic things to check for have already been mentioned. Supercharger noise and transmission issues.

Just FYI, I had a CAI, full exhaust, smaller pulley (more boost) and custom ECM programming. The only time I took it to the track it ran a 14.0 1/4 mile. I could have easily broken into the 13s with it. I ran it modded like that for 50K miles with no power train issues.

It also did about 30mpg on the highway. I really enjoyed that car.

 

[videogames101]

The supercharger has oil in it and needs to be changed. Most do not know this and can damage the supercharger if it gets low or burns up. If it goes bad it usually makes a lot of noise but may have other issues as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hngsrdSgfDY

Great video, thanks! I'll try to check on the superchargers I look at and try to catch any noise, and I'll certainly change out the oil once I get one in the driveway.

 

[videogames101]

I had a 98 Regal GS. It was a great car and I put about 80K miles on it with only normal maintenance.

The basic things to check for have already been mentioned. Supercharger noise and transmission issues.

Just FYI, I had a CAI, full exhaust, smaller pulley (more boost) and custom ECM programming. The only time I took it to the track it ran a 14.0 1/4 mile. I could have easily broken into the 13s with it. I ran it modded like that for 50K miles with no power train issues.

It also did about 30mpg on the highway. I really enjoyed that car.

Awesome to hear, it really seems like a gem to me. I just wish it came in a manual but, you can't have everything in life.

30 mpg seems excellent, which reminds me...

Another question I forgot to mention, are there any reasons to worry about previous owners having run the thing on 87 octane? I'm reading it's supposed to take 93, which I have no problems with - just worried about previous owners not doing so. Something to look for?

 

[MegaFlop]

Awesome to hear, it really seems like a gem to me. I just wish it came in a manual but, you can't have everything in life.

30 mpg seems excellent, which reminds me...

Another question I forgot to mention, are there any reasons to worry about previous owners having run the thing on 87 octane? I'm reading it's supposed to take 93, which I have no problems with - just worried about previous owners not doing so. Something to look for?

If I remember correctly the engine had fairly low compression to work with the super charger ~ 8.5 CR and 7lbs of boost is pretty tame. With the knock sensors I wouldn't worry too much about someone running it on 87. For full performance of course you want to run on Premium.

 

[Knavish]

I'm looking to buy a used car, because I'm in college and can't afford the one I really want.

Anyway, I was looking to spend around $3k for a used car that wasn't a toyota. Hopefully something with under 100k miles and 200+ horsepower that wasn't going to be beat to hell, a tall order indeed.

But I did find one of the most unique cars I've seen, the factory supercharged Regal GS from a decade ago. Seriously, 200+ HP in a Buick, and fortunately for me Buick owners don't tend to abuse their cars.

I've read a bit about the 3800 II engine of the era, and noticed this massive issue with the intake manifold. Between melting, the gaskets leaking, and essentially being designed like shit I figure I'll pretty much have to replace the upper manifold along with the manifold gaskets and the host of electronics that get destroyed from leaking oil/coolant. Apart from that, I've heard the trannys are good to something like 200k, which is nice.

So, questions for the wise on ATG:

-Common Issues?
-Alternatives around the same price point?
-Common rust/corrosion/rot areas? (I'm shopping in New England)
-Other advice?

1999 seems like a good year because it came with a factory installed Strut Tower Brace, which is cool - but really if I find the right car the year is sort of moot. I've seen a ton of examples with 100k-150k, which may be what I settle for.

Thanks!

I'm pretty sure that the melting plastic intake manifold is only on the NON-supercharged engine. Ir read supercharger's intake is metal, so you won't get the fun meltdown + hydrolock problem with this car. I have no idea on the reliability of the supercharger itself.

You can probably still find it online somewhere, but in the past I've seen those plastic intake manifolds for sale with a metal collar epoxied into the coolant channel to prevent this problem from happening on the standard 3800 II engine.

 

[videogames101]

I'm pretty sure that the melting plastic intake manifold is only on the NON-supercharged engine. Ir read supercharger's intake is metal, so you won't get the fun meltdown + hydrolock problem with this car. I have no idea on the reliability of the supercharger itself.

You can probably still find it online somewhere, but in the past I've seen those plastic intake manifolds for sale with a metal collar epoxied into the coolant channel to prevent this problem from happening on the standard 3800 II engine.

Very interesting, if that is the case it could certainly save me a few headaches. I'll look into the differences between the supercharged intakes and the standard ones, thanks for the heads-up!

 

[CrackRabbit]

My Fiance had a 96 GS NA, had issues with the coolant inlet into the motor being plastic and snapping off, had it replaced with a metal one. Got rid of it when the manifold gasket started leaking. At that point it had more than 220k on the clock.
Non essential issues included a busted A/C, flaking paint (was common at the time), and one of the tail lights would fill up with water if it rained heavily.

Also if you do your own oil changes the engineers at GM made it nearly impossible to get to the filter without removing the passenger side front tire.

 

[toronado97]

If I remember correctly the engine had fairly low compression to work with the super charger ~ 8.5 CR and 7lbs of boost is pretty tame. With the knock sensors I wouldn't worry too much about someone running it on 87. For full performance of course you want to run on Premium.

It's pretty impossible to tell if someone has run the incorrect gas in it, as the damage has either been done or hasn't been done. That said, I own an '02 Grand Prix GTP, and you definitely don't put anything other than premium in that supercharged 3800. If you run 87 octane gasoline, you can and will destroy a piston and I've seen two separate examples with my own eyes.

 

[rommelrommel]

If you drive it like a granny and the knock sensors do their job there won't be any detonation. There's some idiot protection factor in there.

 

[toronado97]

If you drive it like a granny and the knock sensors do their job there won't be any detonation. There's some idiot protection factor in there.

By their very definition a knock sensor won't retard the timing unless it detects a pinging or knock in the engine, which means that damage can and has already been done. Downplaying this is stupid, there's reems of information about supercharged 3800's and premature detonation destroying engines. I'm not dogging the car or the engine either; the 3800 series II is pretty much a battleship, one of the best engines GM ever made, but it's not idiot proof. Don't put anything other than 92 octane in it, just DONT DO IT. Unfortunately there's no way to tell without tearing the engine apart whether the previous owner took proper care of the vehicle beforehand. Even assuming the knock sensor does its job, and retards the hell out of the engine to keep it from self destructing, all you're doing is gutting your fuel economy and engine power, so what's the point? Spend the extra 3 bucks at the pump and do it right, or simply don't buy the vehicle at all.

Edit: Someone also mentioned transmissions above, and that is by far the achilles heel of these vehicles. The supercharged engine uses the HD version of the 4T65E transmission (4T65E-HD) which is designed to handle the extra torque and output from the supercharged engine, but they are notorious for problems, and the HD transmission is pretty difficult to find in junkyards simply because the supercharged 3800 didn't move all that many units. Rebuilding one can cost upwards of 2,000 bucks. Honestly if you want the lowdown on that vehicle, swing by www.grandprixforums.net and ask the guys there, or browse their forums for topics related to the engine and drivetrain. Your Regal will have different interior stuff obviously, but most of that car is the same as the Grand Prix GTP/Monte Carlo SS.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

Buddy had a GXP. Fun car. He didn't keep it past warranty, so no clue on longevity. I did see an older GS in the staging lanes at local drag strip. He was running low 13's with lots of traction issues. I can see how an older GS would be fun.

If I needed a dependable car though I'd just get a plain regal.

 

[kn51]

I had a 97 Park Avenue Ultra (so basically same drivetrain as yours) and it was a great car. 20MPG around town and 27MPG on the interstate.

Supercharger - Basic maintenance for it is to suck the fluid out of the nose (there's a small torx head fill plug) and dump in around two bottles of GM supercharger fluid. The stuff you pull out will look nasty. The stuff you put in will be clear. I don't remember how often I did it, probably every other year or so.

The tranny has an issue where it will occasionally hard shift. That occurred for me at around 120K. The fix for it is apparently replacing one the solenoids in the valve body. Kicker is you have to lower the subframe to expose the valve body cover.

 

[Vdubchaos]

10 years ago, grandma smoked me in a Buick GS......I was in a K04 Passat (about 240hp)

That was embarrassing.....

 

[KeithP]

For full performance of course you want to run on Premium.

It was spec'd for regular gas and premium fuel did nothing for it as I recall. I bought a 98 Regal GS new and had it until 2007 with a little over 120K on the odometer.

I maintained it properly and it was very reliable up until the end. At about 105K to 110K (don't remember exactly) I had to get the supercharger rebuilt then at about 120K the AC compressor died.

Overall I really liked the car although it had noticeable torque steer. Lots of torque at low RPM with that supercharged motor.

-KeithP

 

[mike2fix]

Wonderful engine when properly maintained. The SC engine has an aluminum intake and does not have the melting issues the non SC engines have, the SC engine does have the same intake gasket issues. Routine maintenance on the SC engine to do intake gaskets, there is an aluminum frame gasket that solves most of the gasket issues. Most of the cooling system issues are related to the Dexcool anti-freeze used in these engines. Replace plastic coolant elbows with aluminum elbows, another common issue, fix it when you do the intake gaskets. The SC motor definitely wants premium fuel, regular WILL damage that motor due to detonation. The SC itself is quite reliable, most common issue is a weak coupler, it will rattle at idle. Pretty easy fix and not that expensive.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Wonderful engine when properly maintained. The SC engine has an aluminum intake and does not have the melting issues the non SC engines have, the SC engine does have the same intake gasket issues. Routine maintenance on the SC engine to do intake gaskets, there is an aluminum frame gasket that solves most of the gasket issues. Most of the cooling system issues are related to the Dexcool anti-freeze used in these engines. Replace plastic coolant elbows with aluminum elbows, another common issue, fix it when you do the intake gaskets. The SC motor definitely wants premium fuel, regular WILL damage that motor due to detonation. The SC itself is quite reliable, most common issue is a weak coupler, it will rattle at idle. Pretty easy fix and not that expensive.

Had both of these happen on my 3800 Series II based Oldsmobile Intrigue. It is a *when* not an if, if they have not already been replaced with aluminum versions. The intake gaskets was a $700 job for me once all the cleanup and checkovers were made. The coolant elbows left me stranded 90 miles from home and I had to get the car towed on a weekend to a shop to have them replaced. It could have been a cheap job (you have to remove the belt and belt tensioner), but the weekend tow really screwed me over and it ended up costing $200 all said and done.

If you do not have proof of these issues being rectified, the factor that cost when buying the car. You *will* have to do both at some point.

 

[rommelrommel]

By their very definition a knock sensor won't retard the timing unless it detects a pinging or knock in the engine, which means that damage can and has already been done. Downplaying this is stupid, there's reems of information about supercharged 3800's and premature detonation destroying engines. I'm not dogging the car or the engine either; the 3800 series II is pretty much a battleship, one of the best engines GM ever made, but it's not idiot proof. Don't put anything other than 92 octane in it, just DONT DO IT. Unfortunately there's no way to tell without tearing the engine apart whether the previous owner took proper care of the vehicle beforehand. Even assuming the knock sensor does its job, and retards the hell out of the engine to keep it from self destructing, all you're doing is gutting your fuel economy and engine power, so what's the point? Spend the extra 3 bucks at the pump and do it right, or simply don't buy the vehicle at all.

Edit: Someone also mentioned transmissions above, and that is by far the achilles heel of these vehicles. The supercharged engine uses the HD version of the 4T65E transmission (4T65E-HD) which is designed to handle the extra torque and output from the supercharged engine, but they are notorious for problems, and the HD transmission is pretty difficult to find in junkyards simply because the supercharged 3800 didn't move all that many units. Rebuilding one can cost upwards of 2,000 bucks. Honestly if you want the lowdown on that vehicle, swing by www.grandprixforums.net and ask the guys there, or browse their forums for topics related to the engine and drivetrain. Your Regal will have different interior stuff obviously, but most of that car is the same as the Grand Prix GTP/Monte Carlo SS.

Owned one for several years. There's lots of info about detonation ruining engines but I've never heard of many daily driven stock SC 3800 experiencing engine damage from wrong fuel... not suggesting that it's a great idea but I wouldn't be all paranoid about what fuel a 15 year old car was ran on either.

I agree tho that you don't want to get throwing good money after bad on one of these... if you start having major issues it could easily become not worth fixing.

 

[mike2fix]

Owned one for several years. There's lots of info about detonation ruining engines but I've never heard of many daily driven stock SC 3800 experiencing engine damage from wrong fuel... not suggesting that it's a great idea but I wouldn't be all paranoid about what fuel a 15 year old car was ran on either.

I agree tho that you don't want to get throwing good money after bad on one of these... if you start having major issues it could easily become not worth fixing.

I wouldn't argue the paranoid issue with you but I will say, you will hear the engine detonating, the computer/sensors will back the timing out to minimize the detonation but you will still hear it. The other thing that you will notice is decreased gas mileage, the difference is probably enough to offset the savings you see buying regular versus premium.