9mm vs .45 caliber

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: JEDI

Originally posted by: SmoochyTX
Let me borrow both. I'll report back with the findings.

going to dc for the inauguration, eh?

wtf

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: sourceninja
I used to carry a SA XD 9mm with nice hydrashock bullets, I have full confidence that you can stop a man with those. That pistol became my wife's pistol once she got used to shooting and wanted to move up from the ruger mark III. I then carried the SA XD compact 40 with hollow point and again had 100% confidence in it's ability to stop a person quickly and efficiently. I sold that to a friend. I know carry a compact 1911 with hollow points. (Kimber ultra carry). Again, I have no worries about this pistol.

I'm confident because I've seen what these rounds can do to large targets on the range such as jugs of water. I am also confident because I know I am well trained and proficient in using my firearms. I am confident in my ability to double or triple tap to the chest/heart area (ok I can't triple with the 45). The only reason I switched to a 45 is for the size factor (I love the way it fits and find the SA XD's a little boxy for carrying). I also find the 45 to be more accurate for me at the range and it's simply a wonderful gun (and 2 times more expensive).

I also own a few rifles and have just as much confidence that a .223 rifle round is going to stop anyone I am forced to shoot.

223 is another fail, not only requiring a hot load but fails to fragment from the short barrels going in and out - and why our guys in Afghanistan are switching to 6.8SPC and 6.5 Grendal or at least 77+gr boat tails. I would never trust my life to the weapons you mention going up against a hyped up druggie or Jihadi.

Yes I understand the concept of one shot one kill and shot placement unfortunately everyone can't hit the medulla oblongata each time with a .22 under stress - at least with a high energy rounds they will be missing body parts as they drop form the force.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Collected data from police department shootings. It doesn't take into account bullet placement, but with such a large sampling size that would even out between calibers.


http://www.abaris.net/info/bal...gun-stopping-power.htm

 

[quakefiend420]

Originally posted by: Kroze

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
I need a link to a video of someone taking 19 bullets and still attacking.

Someone smoking wet is going to take 38 rounds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTip_12gk5Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3gc9BNeMFE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zxN3bQRQIE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kv_uKgGX5k

Actually, it was more like 8 shots.

 

[Arkaign]

Glock 23 is a good compromise. Put Buffalo Bore in it, and you've got a winner. From what I've heard, this is the choice of more than a few Operators in theatre as we speak.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: sourceninja
I used to carry a SA XD 9mm with nice hydrashock bullets, I have full confidence that you can stop a man with those. That pistol became my wife's pistol once she got used to shooting and wanted to move up from the ruger mark III. I then carried the SA XD compact 40 with hollow point and again had 100% confidence in it's ability to stop a person quickly and efficiently. I sold that to a friend. I know carry a compact 1911 with hollow points. (Kimber ultra carry). Again, I have no worries about this pistol.

I'm confident because I've seen what these rounds can do to large targets on the range such as jugs of water. I am also confident because I know I am well trained and proficient in using my firearms. I am confident in my ability to double or triple tap to the chest/heart area (ok I can't triple with the 45). The only reason I switched to a 45 is for the size factor (I love the way it fits and find the SA XD's a little boxy for carrying). I also find the 45 to be more accurate for me at the range and it's simply a wonderful gun (and 2 times more expensive).

I also own a few rifles and have just as much confidence that a .223 rifle round is going to stop anyone I am forced to shoot.

223 is another fail, not only requiring a hot load but fails to fragment from the short barrels going in and out - and why our guys in Afghanistan are switching to 6.8SPC and 6.5 Grendal or at least 77+gr boat tails. I would never trust my life to the weapons you mention going up against a hyped up druggie or Jihadi.

Yes I understand the concept of one shot one kill and shot placement unfortunately everyone can't hit the medulla oblongata each time with a .22 under stress - at least with a high energy rounds they will be missing body parts as they drop form the force.

Yeah, the universal story from the ground forces during the Somalia conflict (and more recently, Afghan/Iraq), is that the .223 has been problematic in stopping bad guys. The Deltas often carry modded M14s, which will knock the crap out of pretty much anything. And the 6.8 and 6.5 are even better, and not quite as huge.

 

[TallBill]

A good argument could be made that 9mm is more deadly then 45acp. Rounds are about half the price, so you can get in much more practice with a 9mm. Also, it takes a while to get used to the recoil of a 45acp. There is a pretty big difference which takes fairly frequent shooting to get used to.

So if average joe is going to just buy his first handgun for personal protection and goes shooting 2-3 times a year, 9mm is a much better decision.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: TallBill
A good argument could be made that 9mm is more deadly then 45acp. Rounds are about half the price, so you can get in much more practice with a 9mm. Also, it takes a while to get used to the recoil of a 45acp. There is a pretty big difference which takes fairly frequent shooting to get used to.

So if average joe is going to just buy his first handgun for personal protection and goes shooting 2-3 times a year, 9mm is a much better decision.

Hence the recommendation for a balanced .40 / 10mm solution

Ammo is a little pricier, but it perfectly straddles the line with the right load, between 9mm and .45

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Arkaign


Ammo is a little pricier, but it perfectly straddles the line with the right load, between 9mm and .45

You seriously think there is a difference between any of the popular auto cartages (real 10mm excluded) when they are within 5% of each other?

I'd go cheap shooting 9mm too.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: TallBill
A good argument could be made that 9mm is more deadly then 45acp. Rounds are about half the price, so you can get in much more practice with a 9mm. Also, it takes a while to get used to the recoil of a 45acp. There is a pretty big difference which takes fairly frequent shooting to get used to.

So if average joe is going to just buy his first handgun for personal protection and goes shooting 2-3 times a year, 9mm is a much better decision.

Hence the recommendation for a balanced .40 / 10mm solution

Ammo is a little pricier, but it perfectly straddles the line with the right load, between 9mm and .45

I'd still recommend a 9mm to a new gun buyer, and then once you've got a handle on things decide on the .40 or 45.

My sig p226 .40 s&w is by far my favorite handgun. But over time I'm getting better with the p220. I just don't go shooting as much as I did when I lived in TN.

 

[BigJelly]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: TallBill
A good argument could be made that 9mm is more deadly then 45acp. Rounds are about half the price, so you can get in much more practice with a 9mm. Also, it takes a while to get used to the recoil of a 45acp. There is a pretty big difference which takes fairly frequent shooting to get used to.

So if average joe is going to just buy his first handgun for personal protection and goes shooting 2-3 times a year, 9mm is a much better decision.

Hence the recommendation for a balanced .40 / 10mm solution

Ammo is a little pricier, but it perfectly straddles the line with the right load, between 9mm and .45

QFT

<---- FN Herstal FNP 40 owner; :beer: to the 2nd amendment

As stated above, by dennilfloss, the 9mm could not put down drugged up enemies. So two new rounds were created to get the knock down power the military desired: the 357 magnum and the 45 cal. The military went with the 45.

The 9mm is lethal but may not put someone down as quickly as a 45--even if the 9mm round made a lethal shot. Learn from the military experience: when you are forced to kill someone, put him down quick--for your safety.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: TallBill
A good argument could be made that 9mm is more deadly then 45acp. Rounds are about half the price, so you can get in much more practice with a 9mm. Also, it takes a while to get used to the recoil of a 45acp. There is a pretty big difference which takes fairly frequent shooting to get used to.

So if average joe is going to just buy his first handgun for personal protection and goes shooting 2-3 times a year, 9mm is a much better decision.

Hence the recommendation for a balanced .40 / 10mm solution

Ammo is a little pricier, but it perfectly straddles the line with the right load, between 9mm and .45

I'd still recommend a 9mm to a new gun buyer, and then once you've got a handle on things decide on the .40 or 45.

My sig p226 .40 s&w is by far my favorite handgun. But over time I'm getting better with the p220. I just don't go shooting as much as I did when I lived in TN.

That 226 is a beautiful piece. Did you look at the 23 when you were looking for your 40?

Oh, what part of TN? I visited recently, beautiful state, particularly liked Nashville, though Beale street was a helluva time as well.

 

[adairusmc]

Don't bother with either and settle for a real mans caliber - the 10mm auto.

Get some double tap Equalizer ammo for the 10mm. 135g Nosler hollow point on top of a 95g ball. One shot, two holes at 1050fps. He also makes a 1600fps load for the 10mm as well. Great ammo.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

That 226 is a beautiful piece. Did you look at the 23 when you were looking for your 40?

Oh, what part of TN? I visited recently, beautiful state, particularly liked Nashville, though Beale street was a helluva time as well.

Yeah, I definitely considered the 23, and will eventually pick up another Glock. I already have the 19 and enjoy it. I lived in Clarksville when I was in the 101st.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: adairusmc
Don't bother with either and settle for a real mans caliber - the 10mm auto.

Get some double tap Equalizer ammo for the 10mm. 135g Nosler hollow point on top of a 95g ball. One shot, two holes at 1050fps. He also makes a 1600fps load for the 10mm as well. Great ammo.

Worrying about whether you are a "man" or not when purchasing a firearm is about the worst advice that you can give.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: adairusmc
Don't bother with either and settle for a real mans caliber - the 10mm auto.

Get some double tap Equalizer ammo for the 10mm. 135g Nosler hollow point on top of a 95g ball. One shot, two holes at 1050fps. He also makes a 1600fps load for the 10mm as well. Great ammo.

Worrying about whether you are a "man" or not when purchasing a firearm is about the worst advice that you can give.

I didnt see it that way... "real man" is a euphemism for powerful, strong, KO power, etc Like the 10mm is, somewhat

 

[Triumph]

Instant incapacitation is caused by severing the nervous system. People's opinions are swayed by the movies, they think a 45ACP will throw someone through a plate glass window while a 9mm will bounce off of their jacket. It's all bullshit. People are just like zombies, aim for the brain and they'll go down.

 

[marvdmartian]

I remember when I lived on Guam, there was a fella that went to prison for murder. Seems he was involved in a drug deal gone bad, where he and the victim got into a fight. He beat the shit out of the other guy, then decided he needed to die.......so he pulled out his 9mm, and emptied a 17-round magazine in the other guy.......then decided he needed to die MORE, so walked over to his vehicle, changed to his spare magazine, came back over and unloaded the whole thing in this guy's carcass!! :shocked:

Yeah........let's see someone put thirty four .45 sized holes in someone with just two magazines!!! :laugh:

 

[BabaBooey]

It is all personal choice,most time the 9mm is more popular due to larger magazine cap. and cheaper ammo than the .45's

I personal like the 45 and .357sig variants myself....man I miss my glock 31 ..:brokenheart:

 

[Kelvrick]

Originally posted by: marvdmartian
I remember when I lived on Guam, there was a fella that went to prison for murder. Seems he was involved in a drug deal gone bad, where he and the victim got into a fight. He beat the shit out of the other guy, then decided he needed to die.......so he pulled out his 9mm, and emptied a 17-round magazine in the other guy.......then decided he needed to die MORE, so walked over to his vehicle, changed to his spare magazine, came back over and unloaded the whole thing in this guy's carcass!! :shocked:

Yeah........let's see someone put thirty four .45 sized holes in someone with just two magazines!!! :laugh:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eprod...duct?saleitemid=564303


Personally, I have winchester ranger 124gr +p in my kahr pm9. Maybe I am a girl, but I can't control the 45 as well. I miss my sig p229 .40, but I decided to consolidate calibers, so now I only have to buy 22, 9mm, 12ga and 308. With cheaper prices, I can practice more often (indoor target practice as well as action pistol). I just can't afford 45 prices like my buddies with their 1911's.

Next to the bed, when I go to sleep, #1 buckshot.

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: Kroze
I know this debate has been debated since the dark age but this is not what the thread is really about.



A lot of people laugh at the fact that a 9mm is a joke and you'll need to put 20 rounds into someone before they'll "feel" anything or drop to the ground due to adrenaline. There has been numerous videos of people getting shot multiple times with a 9mm and didn't die. That's why everyone said you're best to get the .45 for any hand gun.





But the real question is...does anyone have real solid proof/actual videos of being shot with a .45 will stop someone in their track?



Anyone have videos of someone being shot with a .45 multiple times and still high on adrenaline & fighting?

Do you feel lucky?

well do you punk?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-0BVT4cqGY

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Triumph
Instant incapacitation is caused by severing the nervous system. People's opinions are swayed by the movies, they think a 45ACP will throw someone through a plate glass window while a 9mm will bounce off of their jacket. It's all bullshit. People are just like zombies, aim for the brain and they'll go down.

Seconded.

I'm perfectly confident in the ability of my little .380 to do its job as long as I do mine. If a person can handle a failure drill then they're fine with just about any caliber.

ZV

 

[soydios]

if you put the bullet in the right place, it doesn't matter.

I've only shot an M1911 .45 (match-grade replica), Beretta M9 or something like it 9mm, and .357 Magnum / .38 Special revolver. My thoughts on each:
- .45-caliber M1911: I was more accurate with this than the M9. A .45 bullet and cartridge is noticeably bigger than a 9mm. But the M1911 is just too big for me to comfortably use, and I have average hands. Recoil was not a problem.
- 9mm M9: I was least accurate with this, but I can't say why. The gun fit my hand much better than the M1911. I like the simplicity of the gun; it's very easy to strip down and clean.
- .38 Special / .357 Revolver: I was most accurate with this pistol, because it had the longest distance between the front and rear sights. .38 Special didn't have that much recoil, but dang do you notice when a .357 Magnum goes off; it makes a very loud thwump through your ear protection and there's a great big muzzle flash to go with it, very noticeably larger than .38.

For target shooting I would definitely get a revolver chambered for .357 Magnum. For home defense, I don't know; perhaps a proper shotgun instead.

 

[DangerAardvark]

Originally posted by: Kroze

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
I need a link to a video of someone taking 19 bullets and still attacking.

Someone smoking wet is going to take 38 rounds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTip_12gk5Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3gc9BNeMFE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zxN3bQRQIE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kv_uKgGX5k

Err... none of those people were attacking. And only one was on PCP. Though the first one was pretty impressive. And one was a cop. One of them just sort of fell over.

 

[kage69]

People's opinions are swayed by the movies, they think a 45ACP will throw someone through a plate glass window while a 9mm will bounce off of their jacket. It's all bullshit.

I haven't heard any serious comparisons of that magnitude, but there is a fundamental difference between the two which makes the .45ACP better at stopping a close threat. There are some who think this topic is a open and shut case of simple physics, but there's more to it. Quite simply, we don't have an accurate formula to represent how human bodies react to ballistic damage. The .45 is a larger, slower approach, and causes human soft tissues and mass to react differently upon contact than they would being hit by a smaller, faster round like the 9mm. The bullet has more time to deliver the slap, and tends to drag tissue and clothing into the wound. The 9mm's strength would be penetration (on account of it's smaller diameter and higher velocity) and improved accuracy via less recoil and flatter trajectory at distance.
The Military Channel's Weaponology did a good demo of what I'm referring to not long ago. Their historian had a range set up with 3 large squares of ballistic clay on a table. For each square he shot it with a rifle of a different period, a muzzle loader, a WW2 Mauser, then the newer .223. Every load mangled the clay, but the slow moving chunk of lead that left the muzzle loader was the only one to actually make the clay square fly off the table. It's that same property that makes the .45 a better man stopper than the 9mm.

Both are great rounds, but there is a reason that good ol Pershing insisted his men have .45s instead of .38s in the Pacific as well as on the Western Front. The 9mm was adopted in the 80s due to a desire for uniformity with our NATO allies (being easier to operate for the ladies didn't hurt) NOT because it outperformed the 45. This was roughly the same time a new trend was starting in ballistic weapons, when standard rifle rounds were replaced with smaller, short-range versions which offered weight savings and the ability to carry more ammo. Replacing the "old" .45 followed this trend.

I own both. I suggest trying them and making your own decision, but realize there are other options out there. 9mm will be the cheapest to shoot, but give a gander at the .40S&W, .357SIG, or the new .45GAP, which is a trimmed down version of the .45ACP made to fit into smaller weapons but have nearly the same firepower. Ruger recently did the same thing with the venerable and quite awesome .357Mag, rolling out the .327Ruger.

A great home protection load would be the Blue Dots from Glaser. Most impressive! Won't go through dry wall at an angle, but the terminal effects on jugs of water are literally explosive!