__ ]] Official Rogue One Spoiler Thread [[ __

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JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
11,774
919
126
We all know that already.

The real question is, did any Bothans die in the attempt?
That's from Return of the Jedi. They got out the information about the 2nd Death Star not the plans for the first.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,431
3,535
126
Otherwise using a Hammerhead Cruiser like that to push the disabled star destroy was very nice.

I thought that was too cheesy. First - why in the world would you put two Star Destroyers so close together? They easily could have been farther apart and still covered the portal. Second - stop using that as a plot device. Every other movie a Star Destroyer is crashing into a planet, a 'moon', or another Star Destroyer. It doesn't make sense that the Empire is that reckless with its ships (or that they keep building planet killer weapons only to have them blown up). Third - what the hell are those hulls made out of? If the two ships were that close I find it a little hard to believe such a small ship could get enough momentum built up to complete shear through another ship

I think some of the Vader stuff was cheesy -- his "joke" about "choking" was out of character. Actually that entire scene was useless and unnecessary. But the closign scene with him was bad ass.

Agreed. I also think its extremely odd that Tarkin would blow up the Empire's main data archive facility. The rebels were beaten in this battle so he could have at least retrieved the data before blowing it all up. Made me wonder what it would be like if Google or Yahoo exploded a datacenter every time they had a data beach.

One other thought kept going through my mind at the end as well.. who builds these bases? Who was the brainchild that thought putting the dish alignment button was well placed on the railing (IDK what you call where it was) hanging off the base for no other reason than to give vertigo. I'd say maybe visual alignment but how one could do that with a ship in space which is what the stupid thing is for negates that. To say nothing of the random opening and closing shaft that we're meant to believe that will cut a leg off if caught in it. I couldn't help but think of Galaxy Quest and the engine room.

While it does fit in with the original movies complete disregard for worker safety I have the same thoughts. "Wait, this is their main archive and if someone needs the information they want their tech to take their really important backup up really really high to place in a small, open air receptical where the tape could easily fall over the side. Then, if it needs to be re-aligned they must go out onto this scaffolding to suspended hundreds of feet above the ground for no reason. Also - who thought a sphincter of death in the archive storage was a good idea?"
 

TheAdvocate

Platinum Member
Mar 7, 2005
2,561
7
81
I wrote a long review for another forum that I came here to repost - but I think most of you have already hit on most of what I had to say, and in greater detail since this is a spoiler thread (and mine was light on spoilers). I gave it a B. Here it is anyway, but I don't think there are any big revelations in it. FWIW, I didn't wanna ruin the one good human line - Chirrit's "are you kidding me??".

--------------

Disclaimer: I very much wanted to love this movie. I was so hyped to see it. I am a full on SW fan and have been since I was about 5.

My take is that it was pretty good, but not great. Here's why. The first reason is not the film's fault.

1. I figured out the entire plot from the previews - there were literally no surprises (I didn't know HOW some things would happen - like why they couldn't escape, but...). I had heard Vader was gonna be in it, and I wondered if Tarkin was gonna be in it. The way they did him instead of re-casting him was a mild surprise I guess. Anyway, the trailers give too much away if you are at all observant/invested in the universe and lore. And I told at least a dozen people 6 mos ago that they were gonna close the plot hole from A New Hope (which they did very well, I must admit - though in exactly the way I suspected).

2. Thin characterization. It was a dirty dozen movie, which is the risk, but there was no character I identified with or fully invested in. Just too thin on their backstories, and I didn't really like Diego Luna (the actor, not the character). I love Alan Tudyk, and he made me chuckle a couple of times. However, his death was probably the saddest, probably even moreso than the Force Wills it guy (Chirrut?). Felicity Jones is a good actress, but she didn't have quite enough to work with either. The others just didn't matter. I really liked Riz Ahmed in The Night Of, and he did a passing job in this movie, but again had very little to work with.

3. Movie was missing any character with the charisma of Han Solo (Harrison Ford made Solo great with his own input to his lines, etc). This has been a much bigger issue for the series than anyone wants to admit. There hasn't been a great Star Wars film that Ford wasn't in, and it becomes more painfully apparent every movie they make without him. He was the surprise of the first series' casting of nobodies (the Tom Brady in the 7th round of the franchise). Lucas got lucky and found a superstar in his casting call, and while everyone else played their roles well, Han (along with the force) was the hook.

4. Bad guys were paper thin too. I was really disappointed with Director Krennic. He could have been a more interestingly flawed character but we only get his character flaw late in the movie and no motivation for it. Of course, Tarkin does steal his thunder which would tick anyone off, but there were hints that he had deeper issues. What were they? Why was he so ambitious in the first place? Ambition is a character trait but unexplained, it is thin characterization. Most overly ambitious people are compensating for something - usually some internal struggle or pain.

5. Missing John Williams. Oh how he made those original movies with his iconic scores. Even the prequels are magic in that regard (easy to miss because of the trash on screen). Just listen to his prequel scores without the movies and you'll realize that the guy is one of the absolute heroes of the franchise.

6. Banter. All the best lines came from a robot. That's a little problematic if you really think about it. Shouldn't humans be more interesting (and funnier?) characters?

7. The Force - missing the jedi story. The movie could succeed without this one, with the proper execution of the above. However, I thought there was going to be more of an unseen hand of the force guiding this one. Chirrut would have been a great conduit for this aspect of the movie, as a sage force sensitive (??) but not capable of wielding (?) character. As one of the guardians of the Temple of Whills (someone clued me in this is what its called/how spelled), he would be the plausible example of such a being.

8, And this didn't ruin the movie, but Mads Mikkelson was underutilized. He has a gravitas and charisma that few of the other actors possess. He could have been better used to enhance any of the above issues or story points.

Though it sounds like I have ripped this film and hated it... I didn't dislike it. I just found it coming up a little short. It's a "B" movie for me and a solid holdover 'til Episode 8, which I can only hope takes the franchise to its greatest heights since Empire.
 

Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
30,856
4,974
126
You wrote a novel on what you didn't like, but didn't say anything about what you liked and gave it a "B".
That's a crappy review system.
 

TheAdvocate

Platinum Member
Mar 7, 2005
2,561
7
81
LOL Fair enough. The thread I was responding to was overly enthusiastic in its praise, so I was just writing the counterpoint.
 
Reactions: Homerboy

Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
30,856
4,974
126
I REALLY hope we get to see the stuff that was replaced in the reshoot. I assume it changes the end quite a bit -- specifically how some characters die (Jyn and Cassian). I think too that the way the plans get transmitted might change too.
 
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TheAdvocate

Platinum Member
Mar 7, 2005
2,561
7
81
The plans part is obvious just from still shots etc that leaked. Theres a shot of Jyn running on the beach with what looks like the hard drive in her hands. And that "Deep Impact" (I mean - was I the only one who flashed backed to Tea Leoni and her dad on the beach?) death seemed totally tacked on. Diego Luna's face looked different. Obvious reshoot scene.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,752
4,562
136
Yeah a lot of the deaths felt really forced. I would have felt more for the characters if their deaths had been as effective as K2's. Instead it was like checking off a bunch of bullet points.
 

Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
30,856
4,974
126
Yeah a lot of the deaths felt really forced. I would have felt more for the characters if their deaths had been as effective as K2's. Instead it was like checking off a bunch of bullet points.

Well the one dude died throwing the "master switch" which was BEYOND a lame plot point. The whole concept of a "master switch" and then CALLING it that was horrible. Just dumb dumb writing. He would have been better off dying through the course of the battle naturally.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,431
3,535
126
Well the one dude died throwing the "master switch" which was BEYOND a lame plot point. The whole concept of a "master switch" and then CALLING it that was horrible. Just dumb dumb writing. He would have been better off dying through the course of the battle naturally.

The placement of all the switches and consoles seems completely random too - not to mention that they just happen to know that a random switch at a totally randomly placed console is the master switch.
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,218
661
136
The placement of all the switches and consoles seems completely random too - not to mention that they just happen to know that a random switch at a totally randomly placed console is the master switch.

That's what I meant when I questioned who makes these places? To have the master switch in the middle of a field is bizarre, not as bizarre as the sphincter arm cutting hatch in the hard drive bay, but more than the catwalk alignment button.

One other question that's been bothering me.. why do Stormtroopers wear helmets if they don't really do anything. In one fight when Blind Fury went to town on them, I saw him kick sand in the face of a Stormtrooper. The helmet has eye protection.. that shouldn't have bothered him, let alone having him reach up towards his face like he had something in his eyes. Not to mention they kept getting hit in the head and going down.. are those outfits just for show? They seem to offer no protection at all.
 

Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
30,856
4,974
126
That's what I meant when I questioned who makes these places? To have the master switch in the middle of a field is bizarre, not as bizarre as the sphincter arm cutting hatch in the hard drive bay, but more than the catwalk alignment button.

One other question that's been bothering me.. why do Stormtroopers wear helmets if they don't really do anything. In one fight when Blind Fury went to town on them, I saw him kick sand in the face of a Stormtrooper. The helmet has eye protection.. that shouldn't have bothered him, let alone having him reach up towards his face like he had something in his eyes. Not to mention they kept getting hit in the head and going down.. are those outfits just for show? They seem to offer no protection at all.

These gripes are nothing new in the Star Wars world. There's always been "WTF!? That makes no logical sense!' trappings throughout the movies. You just have to roll past them and accept them for what they are.
 

foghorn67

Lifer
Jan 3, 2006
11,885
53
91
Alright, overall an excellent film. I heard quite a few people talking as we walked out. Some dudes said it was easily in the top 3. One guy said top 2. And you know what? I dont think I disagree with him.


Only complaints are nitpicks. No real plot holes or serious story problems. No bad characters. No Jar Jar which is reason enough to see this movie.
My minor gripe is the plethora of call-backs. Some of them were neccesary, most of them were not. But there wasnt as much fanboy service as The Force Awakens. They did not shoehorn Luke in. Or Obi-wan. Or Han, or Chewie, or Jabba, or Lando, or anyone else not important to the story. They did shove the two assholes in for no particular reason, but since we all know what happens to them, its no big deal.
C-3PO's cameo was exactly what it needed to be and no more. As was R2-D2 and Senator Organa.

Leia was not only unnecessary but also badly done. The CGI was decent but on the big screen she kinda looked gross and fake. They probably could have just gotten by with her voice and a stand in.

Oh, and if I were you I would not get to attached to the characters. ANY of them. Not the bad guys or anything.

Solid movie, did not make excessive references to previous films but did borrow quite a bit. Nothing really annoying, but pretty obvious.
Even so, I recommend EVERYONE go see this at the theater sometime before New Years, if possible.

You wont be sorry.
How was Leia's scene useless? She was tasked with getting ObiWan in Episode 4, and she had the plans then...With Vader that close to tracking the plans down, thus the chase scene in the opening.
Totally relevant and cool, and it blew even non SW fans away.
 
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foghorn67

Lifer
Jan 3, 2006
11,885
53
91
I'd give this a 6.5/10

I was bored for most of the movie, extremely formulaic and basic, not exciting at all until near the the ending. And yes, Vader's first appearance sucked and felt out of place, especially with what they had him say. Literally only thing I this had going for it was that it was Star Wars. And yes, why the hell would they have the Princess as part of a huge battle. It did not feel like a Star Wars at all. I did not care about any of the characters, none of the them were interesting enough.

I didn't think Force Awakens was great because it was a rehash but at least it felt like a Star Wars movie and was interesting to watch, this was neither.
You've complained relentlessly before it came out. Of course you will hate this. That's how the mind works.
 

foghorn67

Lifer
Jan 3, 2006
11,885
53
91
That was my few issues with the movie. I get that they wanted to connect it to the 4th movie, but it was bizarre to have Leia hanging out in the ship in the middle of the battle. I was also under the impression that they rebels were attempting sneak the plans via Leia because she had diplomatic status. In this it was just luck of the draw as anyone could have been on the ship.

One other thought kept going through my mind at the end as well.. who builds these bases? Who was the brainchild that thought putting the dish alignment button was well placed on the railing (IDK what you call where it was) hanging off the base for no other reason than to give vertigo. I'd say maybe visual alignment but how one could do that with a ship in space which is what the stupid thing is for negates that. To say nothing of the random opening and closing shaft that we're meant to believe that will cut a leg off if caught in it. I couldn't help but think of Galaxy Quest and the engine room.
Diplomats spy ALL the time. Leia being a competent spy makes sense.
 

foghorn67

Lifer
Jan 3, 2006
11,885
53
91
These gripes are nothing new in the Star Wars world. There's always been "WTF!? That makes no logical sense!' trappings throughout the movies. You just have to roll past them and accept them for what they are.
Disabling tractor beam in Episode 4 anyone? It's a SW thing not exclusive to this movie.
I swear people moving into the autism spectrum is like a thing I suppose.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
You've complained relentlessly before it came out. Of course you will hate this. That's how the mind works.
I loved The Force Awakens from the previews and didn't like it when I saw it.

I prefer my movies to have decent character building, not extremely cliche characters, and a basic plot that's not recycled over and over and not even done well. This didn't have that. Only saving grace were some of the action sequences, other than that, nothing from this movie other than the the action was fun.
 
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Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
One other question that's been bothering me.. why do Stormtroopers wear helmets if they don't really do anything. In one fight when Blind Fury went to town on them, I saw him kick sand in the face of a Stormtrooper. The helmet has eye protection.. that shouldn't have bothered him, let alone having him reach up towards his face like he had something in his eyes. Not to mention they kept getting hit in the head and going down.. are those outfits just for show? They seem to offer no protection at all.

What about the fact that you couldn't understand half of the empire forces when they talked? Unless something was drastically wrong in the theater, all I heard was static for all those black-clad troopers.

I REALLY hope we get to see the stuff that was replaced in the reshoot. I assume it changes the end quite a bit -- specifically how some characters die (Jyn and Cassian). I think too that the way the plans get transmitted might change too.

The Film Theory rumor is that the Rogue One squadron was to become the Knights of Ren -- the group led by Kylo Ren in the flashbacks from Force Awakens. It isn't easy to tell in the movies, but essentially, if you look at the characters from Rogue One and the graphic compendium released with the Force Awakens, which includes the Knights of Ren, the character art and the names match up well with each Rogue One member. In fact, one member is literally called "The Monk" and he uses a staff.
 

Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
30,856
4,974
126
What about the fact that you couldn't understand half of the empire forces when they talked? Unless something was drastically wrong in the theater, all I heard was static for all those black-clad troopers.

You weren't supposed to understand them. Did you ever play half life? they sounded just like Combine soldiers. I love that little touch.
I will say this though -- was the movie incredibly dark for people? I saw it twice (MDX digital) and it seemed REALLY dark in places -- especially the beginning. And blurrier than other movies as well. It bothered me right out of the gate.


The Film Theory rumor is that the Rogue One squadron was to become the Knights of Ren -- the group led by Kylo Ren in the flashbacks from Force Awakens. It isn't easy to tell in the movies, but essentially, if you look at the characters from Rogue One and the graphic compendium released with the Force Awakens, which includes the Knights of Ren, the character art and the names match up well with each Rogue One member. In fact, one member is literally called "The Monk" and he uses a staff.

Meh. That sounds like a painful stretch to me and doesn't seem to make too much sense. Why would they turn so dramatically? Using a "staff" and "The Monk" is a pretty common character type in movies and video games.
 

paperfist

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2000
6,517
280
126
www.the-teh.com
How was Leia's scene useless? She was tasked with getting ObiWan in Episode 4, and she had the plans then...With Vader that close to tracking the plans down, thus the chase scene in the opening.
Totally relevant and cool, and it blew even non SW fans away.

I loved the movie. Best one I've seen. Had plot holes but what movie doesn't? At least it wasnt a reboot.

Since you brought it up I guess they didn't have copy paste so they could forward the plans

There's talk on some sites that Felicity has in her contract the rites to a sequal. Not sure if that's normal, if that means they changed the ending or what...
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
You weren't supposed to understand them. Did you ever play half life?

No. But keep in mind that this sort of thing should be for "normal people" too. Normal people aren't like, "Sweet! That's like Half Life!" They're all wondering, "Why can't I understand these people... they aren't aliens!?"

they sounded just like Combine soldiers. I love that little touch.
I will say this though -- was the movie incredibly dark for people? I saw it twice (MDX digital) and it seemed REALLY dark in places -- especially the beginning. And blurrier than other movies as well. It bothered me right out of the gate.

Yes, it was really hard to see in some scenes.

Meh. That sounds like a painful stretch to me and doesn't seem to make too much sense. Why would they turn so dramatically? Using a "staff" and "The Monk" is a pretty common character type in movies and video games.

That was just one example. It makes a lot more sense if you consider that one of them is a sniper, another is a heavy artillery user, another is called "Rogue", etc. It's actually somewhat plausible, but it did seem like a weird turn of events.
 
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