A 70% tax on income above $10 million; what do we think of this idea?

[IronWing]

And those funds from "taxing the crap out of the wealthy" go into (wait for it) the Treasury general fund. Great answer to the question "I mean, what way is there at present to honor the SS trust obligations other than with general fund revenues?" Is this you in the photo below?

That was an asinine response even for you glenn.

 

[Jhhnn]

The financial elite realize that Uncle Sam doesn't have a coffee can hidden in the garage with several trillions of dollars in it to pay SS. You asked what other sources the Feds could use to pay SS liabilities and I gave one. That you dislike that answer on political grounds has no impact on the truth value of that answer.

Yeh,the financial elite wants us to forget that we could raise taxes instead, particularly theirs.

 

[Amused]

Are you also going to force the inner city junior high school dropouts to work unpaid in the factories and the Appalachian toothless meth addicts to toil in the salt mines to extract the same level of value to society you'll be extracting from those paying 70%? Seems a little one sided that one side gets to risk their life savings and work 100 hours a week for years to have Uncle Sam take most of their earnings once they've built a company employing thousands in order to give it to Cleetus so he no longer needs to fake an injury for workman's comp so he can sit around all day in his doublewide watching Jerry Springer.

The hilarity of this is that this very tax system is what made America great in the first place. We passed a 91% top tax rate, ended the robber barons and created the vast middle class that Trump supporting Americans consider the greatest thing about America (besides their own white skin color).

And conservatives have been convinced against the proven track record of this progressive style tax even though this is the VERY tax rate that existed when ALL of them consider America was at its greatest.

Damn the cognitive dissonance must be painful.

 

[glenn1]

The hilarity of this is that this very tax system is what made America great in the first place. We passed a 91% top tax rate, ended the robber barons and created the vast middle class that Trump supporting Americans consider the greatest thing about America (besides their own white skin color).

And conservatives have been convinced against the proven track record of this progressive style tax even though this is the VERY tax rate that existed when ALL of them consider America was at its greatest.

Damn the cognitive dissonance must be painful.

Neat trick that you can isolate that one single factor within a small percentage (a generation or two out of hundreds of years) of our country's history and unequivocably declare it the causal factor of why "America was at its greatest." I'm sure you did rigorous testing to determine that tax rates led to this "greatness" and not other factors. Not the aftermath of WW2, not the ending of segregation and Jim Crow, not the sexual revolution, not the rise of computers, not the rise of the 3rd world countries like South Korea from 18th century economies to true peer economic competitors of the U.S. Must be nice to have that level of certainty in your life about how raising taxes will fix everything.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I started only maybe 4-5 years before my company got rid of their pension. New employees it's 401k only.

Dem candidates need to not only support the 70% marginal rate, but bundle it with getting rid of tax on SS. Basically undoing some of the worst things Ronnie did. How would old red staters be against that?

And while we're at it, there had been discussion for decades to overturn Reagan's 1983 Windfall Provision Act. Some of us who did government service before the mid-1980s had other jobs before and after civil service, and we paid payroll taxes for SS. For about five years before I retired, I expected I'd get X dollars in SS at age 65. When I turned 65, I went to the local SS office. Guess what? I get half as much as X.

Reagan somehow figured that social security was redistributive, and that public employees didn't need half their SS monthlies.

When the doctor tells me I'm terminal with a year to live, I'm going to first visit Reagan's grave, and then Trump's. I'm going to lay a big massive-gassive, poopie-doopie, lumpy-dumpy, shitty-gritty, skunky-chunky on each one and then turn it into a ginger-ale soda when I turn around and piss on those graves. If I get caught, they'll probably arrest me for indecent exposure or put me on some sex-offender registry. I'll go up to the judge, tell him I'm not sorry and I'd do it again. And whaddya gonna do? I'll be dead in a year, judge!

Heck. Why not go all the way and do my number 1 and number 2 with a sledge hammer, which I can then use to smash the headstones? Of course, with risk of arrest in either event, I'd have to think about which Pres to dump on first.

But that's easy. I'll pick the biggest lying asshole of the two. At least Reagan was decent.

 

[Jhhnn]

Neat trick that you can isolate that one single factor within a small percentage (a generation or two out of hundreds of years) of our country's history and unequivocably declare it the causal factor of why "America was at its greatest." I'm sure you did rigorous testing to determine that tax rates led to this "greatness" and not other factors. Not the aftermath of WW2, not the ending of segregation and Jim Crow, not the sexual revolution, not the rise of computers, not the rise of the 3rd world countries like South Korea from 18th century economies to true peer economic competitors of the U.S. Must be nice to have that level of certainty in your life about how raising taxes will fix everything.

It built the interstate highway system, countless schools & universites, subsidized higher education at a much higher rate, financed the Great Society & the Moon Landings, the Cold War, Vietnam plus all kinds of things too numerous to mention. It wasn't all used to good purpose but it beat letting the Rich have it all.

 

[Amused]

Neat trick that you can isolate that one single factor within a small percentage (a generation or two out of hundreds of years) of our country's history and unequivocably declare it the causal factor of why "America was at its greatest." I'm sure you did rigorous testing to determine that tax rates led to this "greatness" and not other factors. Not the aftermath of WW2, not the ending of segregation and Jim Crow, not the sexual revolution, not the rise of computers, not the rise of the 3rd world countries like South Korea from 18th century economies to true peer economic competitors of the U.S. Must be nice to have that level of certainty in your life about how raising taxes will fix everything.

That is the tax rate that existed during, and immediately preceding this "greatest period" that most Trump supporters point to.

That's a fact. What is also a fact is that tax rate stopped the creation of robber barons and helped create a vast middle class where none had existed before it.

But hey. Keep denying reality. I did for years in my libertopian stage. Then I grew up and realized cherry picking facts to fit my ideology was backwards.

Fact: for 50 some years we had that tax rate or about that tax rate on super wealth.
Fact: Those years were considered among the most prosperous and highest rate of growth in American history they are also the years America became the world's largest superpower. They are also the years America's middle class developed.
Fact: The above two facts utterly destroy any claim that such a tax rate will destroy our country or economy.

 

[blackangst1]

The hilarity of this is that this very tax system is what made America great in the first place. We passed a 91% top tax rate, ended the robber barons and created the vast middle class that Trump supporting Americans consider the greatest thing about America (besides their own white skin color).

And conservatives have been convinced against the proven track record of this progressive style tax even though this is the VERY tax rate that existed when ALL of them consider America was at its greatest.

Damn the cognitive dissonance must be painful.

Although your sentiment is correct, there is one glaring factor that essentially grew the US economy. It wasnt taxes. It was WW2. The war spurned MILLIONS of jobs. It was also the ramp up of the industrial machine. Today, however, we no longer have a world war.

However, our industrial growth in the last 20 years has been MASSIVE. See https://www.marketwatch.com/story/u...utput-has-doubled-in-three-decades-2016-03-28

The new "robber barrons" are, of course, in IT. The Bill Gates and Larry Ellisons of the world. Thats the direction we're full steam ahead in.

 

[Jhhnn]

Although your sentiment is correct, there is one glaring factor that essentially grew the US economy. It wasnt taxes. It was WW2. The war spurned MILLIONS of jobs. It was also the ramp up of the industrial machine. Today, however, we no longer have a world war.

However, our industrial growth in the last 20 years has been MASSIVE. See https://www.marketwatch.com/story/u...utput-has-doubled-in-three-decades-2016-03-28

The new "robber barrons" are, of course, in IT. The Bill Gates and Larry Ellisons of the world. Thats the direction we're full steam ahead in.

Very high taxes on the wealthy during the war didn't seem to inhibit industry at all, did they?

We also had other ebil soshulist elements in the economy, like strong Unions & regulated industries. Reagan fixed all that, of course.

 

[blackangst1]

Very high taxes on the wealthy during the war didn't seem to inhibit industry at all, did they?

We also had other ebil soshulist elements in the economy, like strong Unions & regulated industries. Reagan fixed all that, of course.

Nope. Tax income vs GDP has remained level no matter the tax rate on the wealthy.

and Unions need to go away. They serve no purpose whatsoever.

 

[Paratus]

Nope. Tax income vs GDP has remained level no matter the tax rate on the wealthy.

and Unions need to go away. They serve no purpose whatsoever.

Pretty clueless.

 

[zinfamous]

Very high taxes on the wealthy during the war didn't seem to inhibit industry at all, did they?

We also had other ebil soshulist elements in the economy, like strong Unions & regulated industries. Reagan fixed all that, of course.

Don't forget that pesky New Deal! The evil socialist empire that it was, pulling us out of the depression and all that!


(....bbbbbut WW2 did that! WW2 did that! WW2 did that! ---uh, not really: we didn't seriously start mobilizing until '42....)

 

[brandonbull]

Nope. Tax income vs GDP has remained level no matter the tax rate on the wealthy.

and Unions need to go away. They serve no purpose whatsoever.

After WW2, tax receipts have historically remained around 18% of GDP and the top effective tax rate was 42% in the golden age of the 91% top tax rate. Today the top effective tax rate is 36%.

 

[Amused]

After WW2, tax receipts have historically remained around 18% of GDP and the top effective tax rate was 42% in the golden age of the 91% top tax rate. Today the top effective tax rate is 36%.

I'll just put this here:
Tycoon Tax Bite Down By Two-Thirds Since 1955



https://www.forbes.com/2010/04/06/richest-400-pay-less-tax-personal-finance-high-income-tax.html

 

[brandonbull]

Don't forget that pesky New Deal! The evil socialist empire that it was, pulling us out of the depression and all that!


(....bbbbbut WW2 did that! WW2 did that! WW2 did that! ---uh, not really: we didn't seriously start mobilizing until '42....)

Except the times between 1930 - 1940 there was a negative investment into the private sector. It can be argued that the new deal also contributed to inflated wages and prices which hindered recovery.

 

[IronWing]

Except the times between 1930 - 1940 there was a negative investment into the private sector. It can be argued that the new deal also contributed to inflated wages and prices which hindered recovery.

No, those things cannot be argued.

 

[brandonbull]

I'll just put this here:
Tycoon Tax Bite Down By Two-Thirds Since 1955



https://www.forbes.com/2010/04/06/richest-400-pay-less-tax-personal-finance-high-income-tax.html

Thanks for verifying that a 42% rate would collect more money than a 36% rate. The 91% figure is trotted out in a misleading context due to massive difference in the tax codes. Until the wealth and income is redistributed via non governmental means, things won't change. The Robin Hood model shifts the control of wealth from the Bill Gates to the Chuck Schumers.

 

[blackangst1]

After WW2, tax receipts have historically remained around 18% of GDP and the top effective tax rate was 42% in the golden age of the 91% top tax rate. Today the top effective tax rate is 36%.

Yep. Thats what I said.

 

[brandonbull]

No, those things cannot be argued.

I think the NIRA put in motion wage and price collusion that latest for several years.

 

[Jhhnn]

After WW2, tax receipts have historically remained around 18% of GDP and the top effective tax rate was 42% in the golden age of the 91% top tax rate. Today the top effective tax rate is 36%.

Immaterial. America's wealthiest now pay <18%, about the same as families earning $85K.

 

[Amused]

Thanks for verifying that a 42% rate would collect more money than a 36% rate. The 91% figure is trotted out in a misleading context due to massive difference in the tax codes. Until the wealth and income is redistributed via non governmental means, things won't change. The Robin Hood model shifts the control of wealth from the Bill Gates to the Chuck Schumers.

"The WCG report notes that the top marginal tax rate was 91% in 1960 before it started dropping during the Kennedy administration. The effective rate (total tax paid on gross income) for the "IRS 400" dropped from 51.2% in 1955 to 16.6% in 2007. The report says the effective rate on the middle class--defined as the middle 20% of taxpayers--rose from 15.9% in 1960 to 16.1% in 2007. "

This isn't a verification of your post.

 

[ivwshane]

"The WCG report notes that the top marginal tax rate was 91% in 1960 before it started dropping during the Kennedy administration. The effective rate (total tax paid on gross income) for the "IRS 400" dropped from 51.2% in 1955 to 16.6% in 2007. The report says the effective rate on the middle class--defined as the middle 20% of taxpayers--rose from 15.9% in 1960 to 16.1% in 2007. "

This isn't a verification of your post.

In his defense he is a liar and lairs are going to lie.

 

[dainthomas]

Immaterial. America's wealthiest now pay <18%, about the same as families earning $85K.

But at least billionaire business owners don't have to bother giving employees giant bonuses and higher salaries to reduce their tax burden. Such a hassle. Deducting your private jet and yacht maintenance is so much easier.

 

[blankslate]

I very seriously doubt that anyone posting in these forums regularly will be bitten by the top 70% marginal tax rate if it was enacted...

and if you would be then props but this has to be said...

If the middle class shrinks too much because the wealthy few succeed in pushing the tax burden away from them and onto the middle and working classes then the dirt poor will eat the filthy rich.


__________