A Career In Computer Programming

[Dr. Canny]

I'm currently working towards my Bachelor's Degree in Computer Information Systems. I'm halfway to achieving a certificate in either Java Programming or Visual Programming. I have to decide which certificate I want because the next three courses are specific to each one. I'm curious as to which certificate would benefit me most out in the career world of Computer Programming.

I currently know quite a lot about C/C++, but it seems the Visual Programming certificate is more focused around Visual Basic. So my question to everyone on this forum would be, which certificate would benefit me the most? I am interested in all forms of computer programming. Mainly application design, and systems programming.

Thanks in advance for any help you may be able to give. Any reply is greatly appreciated.

 

[DaveSimmons]

I'd go with Java.

VB would lead you to a job maintaining some old corporate in-house app for submitting TPS reports.

Java is used both in Android apps and for server-side programming.

 

[gruven]

Sounds to me like you should have went into computer science instead for a career in programming.

All the CIS majors I know that got their degree go on to be system or network admins.

Don't take that in a bad way, I don't mean to offend you in any way, but CS is about application design (software engineering basically), algorithms, math, and logic. Most programming jobs of the like that you are looking for will require you to have the math background of a CS degree to be able to work out intricate algorithms. Now, if you have been programming for years this would be different, but if you don't have the experience, you should be looking more into system/network admin with a CIS degree.

But to answer your question, go for java. It is found in pretty much anything you will program for, and VB is dying a slow death (we hope, anyway).

 

[BrightCandle]

I concur go for the Java course. Graphics programming is kind of easy to understand in the end and you will be better fed with Java as a language than Visual basic and GUIs at this stage in your career. Most software today isn't really GUI based anyway its web based so a lot of what a GUI course with VB or so will teach you isn't directly usable. Java as a GUI system anyway (which is actually pretty well designed if a little verbose sometimes) so you can always learn to make GUIs with Java.

 

[ringtail]

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[Markbnj]

I also agree with Java, given the two choices. And don't worry about the major. If you can program then you can program.

 

[Leros]

I also agree with Java, given the two choices. And don't worry about the major. If you can program then you can program.

Getting a job as a software developer requires a lot more than knowing how to program. You need to know data structures, algorithms, design patterns, architecture, etc.

 

[Graze]

Java without a question. VB is as I like to put it dead(waits for a bunch of people to argue otherwise) and you would be as was stated mostly supporting old code with that.

My impression is that maybe a brighter future is somewhere in the world of cyber security / cryptography / information security
and not in CS.

for CS maybe start learning to speak Hindi?
Or Portuguese...l see lotta C S guys when I’m in Brazil maybe 2x or 3x every year.
Also, lotta Japanese are betting their futures on Brazil… young study Portuguese in Japan, not English any more, dream of prosperity in USA died with Obama the socialist openly, notoriously intent on tearing USA down.

Skip the ad hominem attacks next time.

Markbnj
Programming mod

 

[gruven]

Getting a job as a software developer requires a lot more than knowing how to program. You need to know data structures, algorithms, design patterns, architecture, etc.

This is what I was stressing in my post. Programming experience will help a lot, but when you can't hold your own in a team environment (as most programming jobs will require) because you haven't had the logic, math, and general CS classes, you won't hold that job long. So yes, the degree does matter.

CIS is mostly business classes with just a few programming classes thrown in so that the admin can write scripts and the like for admin purposes.

 

[Lil Frier]

Getting a job as a software developer requires a lot more than knowing how to program. You need to know data structures, algorithms, design patterns, architecture, etc.

Literal Java class in my Computer Science class: Data Structures and Algorithms.

 

[Lil Frier]

Don't take that in a bad way, I don't mean to offend you in any way, but CS is about application design (software engineering basically), algorithms, math, and logic.

Not 100%. Computer Science breaks off into two branches at my school. There is the software engineering side (which I am going to do), and there is a system security side. A classmate alleged that they would eventually become separate majors, but no idea if or when that would actually happen. Really, depending on your upper-level electives, the differences between the software and system sides can actually be just two classes, though (one upper-level and a capstone).

 

[beginner99]

Most programming jobs of the like that you are looking for will require you to have the math background of a CS degree to be able to work out intricate algorithms.

I see this differently. Most programming doesn't require math beyond the basic operations. Of course this greatly depends in which fields you work. if you work on a relational database management system, yes then such stuff is important but most programmers won't.

IMHO it's much more important to have some common-sense than being a math wiz. Eg. understanding and being able to extract the customers needs is much more important.

 

[Tweak155]

While those stating the only VB jobs are supporting old systems is likely out of ignorance or bias, Java is still the better option.

I currently work in a VB environment at one of the largest companies in the world which allows me to have multiple career path options. Once you get in good somewhere, you will have options available to you. Java is definitely the language with more job opportunities, but consider the flip side where even programmers want to avoid VB like the plague. Just puts those guys who DO know VB in high demand

That said, if I could start over, I'd learn Java :biggrin:

 

[Fox5]

C is a high risk, high reward language. If you're really good at C, you'll be able to command salaries higher than the other languages. Essentially, if you're good enough to write OS or driver code in C. If you simply know C as your primary language for making applications, you'd be better served by Java, and probably should learn the Android frameworks as well.

 

[Markbnj]

Getting a job as a software developer requires a lot more than knowing how to program. You need to know data structures, algorithms, design patterns, architecture, etc.

I include all of that as well, of course, and myself as well as the majority of my colleagues did not learn that material in college. My point is simply that the OP's choice of major will not somehow invalidate them from obtaining a programming job, if they know the things they need to know. I've been at this twenty years and I can count the number of CS grads I've worked with on one hand.

 

[gruven]

I include all of that as well, of course, and myself as well as the majority of my colleagues did not learn that material in college. My point is simply that the OP's choice of major will not somehow invalidate them from obtaining a programming job, if they know the things they need to know. I've been at this twenty years and I can count the number of CS grads I've worked with on one hand.

This could be because there just aren't that many of them anymore. Most general advisers try to discourage CS and push the students into more of a human/earth science, or a business field for their degree. Not to mention the amount of students that can't pass the mass classes or are intimidated by them and choose something else.

But you are correct, you don't have to have a CS degree to be a programmer. It will get you more money most likely especially fresh out of college as a programmer, and you will most likely get recruited by corporations looking for programmers as a CS major. At my school, usually during the CS students junior year, companies like HP, Amazon, Apple, and even MS start looking for and recruiting these students to work for them after graduation, and this is a smaller university in Arkansas (Astate). The CIS students usually have job fairs with companies looking for managers or tech support people. I am not saying that you can't get a programming job, I was simply implying that it would be infinitely easier to get a programming job with a CS degree especially doing systems programming (since the OP mentioned that).

 

[gruven]

Not 100%. Computer Science breaks off into two branches at my school. There is the software engineering side (which I am going to do), and there is a system security side. A classmate alleged that they would eventually become separate majors, but no idea if or when that would actually happen. Really, depending on your upper-level electives, the differences between the software and system sides can actually be just two classes, though (one upper-level and a capstone).

This is valid, although that is already another major at my school. A CS degree is the basics of logic, math, data structures, and algorithms. Every CS student should be taught at least that. Upper level electives for me include AI, advanced data structures, advanced OOP, database programming, and even include the advanced math classes (Calculus III, Differential Equations, etc...) if I choose to take them.

I only mentioned it because OP said he wanted to do systems programming.

 

[Tencntraze]

When I was in college, the CIS and CS programs were only separated by the fact that the former was in the College of Arts & Sciences, while the CS program was in the engineering school. This really only effected which requirements you needed to fulfill outside of the CS courses, otherwise there were still math, algorithm, OS, DB, etc as part of the requirements.

 

[brandonb]

Visual programming is probably not just VB. It probably includes Visual Studio, being C#, VB, C++. Check on it.

If it was all of them, being Visual Studio, I'd pick Visual Studio. Every company I've worked for has been on the Microsoft Platform.

 

[Apathetic]

I'm not sure what "Visual Programming" is (maybe a combination of web/gui design?), but I must agree with the others here: you can't go wrong with Java.

Dave

 

[gruven]

When I was in college, the CIS and CS programs were only separated by the fact that the former was in the College of Arts & Sciences, while the CS program was in the engineering school. This really only effected which requirements you needed to fulfill outside of the CS courses, otherwise there were still math, algorithm, OS, DB, etc as part of the requirements.

I imagine it differs university to university. At the school I attend, CS is in the Math/Science department, and CIS is in the Business department. The classes don't intersect at all. CIS majors where I go only have to take up to Business Calculus for math. CS majors are requires to take Cal I, Cal II, Linear Algebra, Discreet Structures, and Cal III can be an elective. The only programming a CIS major has here is a single VB class and a single web dev class. The CIS electives push them into networking, sysadmin, or database management. There may even be an option for an emphasis on web dev, I would have to look.

One of my friends is a CIS major, and I am a CS major.

 

[Markbnj]

I am not saying that you can't get a programming job, I was simply implying that it would be infinitely easier to get a programming job with a CS degree especially doing systems programming (since the OP mentioned that).

I think you're definitely right about that. When I first started being a "systems programmer" just meant knowing the right languages and low-level interfaces. That's one field I think has become pretty hard to bootstrap yourself into. It's much more sophisticated now.

 

[Dr. Canny]

Thanks for all of your replies. I'm actually attending a community college where I will be transferring to a 4 year university after I have completed the Associate of Science in CINS. From what I have researched, I will be able to transfer my credits over to a college where I can receive a Bachelor's in Computer Science. The majority of my classes currently are core class, like Calculus 2, Physics/Physics 2, Composition, etc.. But I am also enrolled in Information Systems Fundamentals, Computing Logic, Database Design & Management, Intro to Java Programming, Advanced Java Programming, and so on and so forth. None of the classes I have or have had for these 2 years have anything to do with the business side of anything. Now I'm not saying that when I continue to a 4 year school the business classes could start, but if that's the case then I won't be attending that school, and instead will look for one where my credits will transfer into a program designed more for programming.

Nonetheless, I think I have decided to go with Java based on all of your replies. If there is anything else you would like to input, I would be more than happy to read it. Any advice helps.

 

[purbeast0]

definitely java over vb. i'd probably pick java over anything right now with how big web application development is right now. once you know how to program though, you can pick up any language.

 

[gruven]

Thanks for all of your replies. I'm actually attending a community college where I will be transferring to a 4 year university after I have completed the Associate of Science in CINS. From what I have researched, I will be able to transfer my credits over to a college where I can receive a Bachelor's in Computer Science. The majority of my classes currently are core class, like Calculus 2, Physics/Physics 2, Composition, etc.. But I am also enrolled in Information Systems Fundamentals, Computing Logic, Database Design & Management, Intro to Java Programming, Advanced Java Programming, and so on and so forth. None of the classes I have or have had for these 2 years have anything to do with the business side of anything. Now I'm not saying that when I continue to a 4 year school the business classes could start, but if that's the case then I won't be attending that school, and instead will look for one where my credits will transfer into a program designed more for programming.

Nonetheless, I think I have decided to go with Java based on all of your replies. If there is anything else you would like to input, I would be more than happy to read it. Any advice helps.

That is great! What you are describing would be a Bachelor of Arts in CS at my university, and requires a lot less math.

There is one thing to check though, and it may not even be a problem where you are located, but I know at quite a few 4 year universities they require you to take the required math classes at the university itself. A few of my friends have had to retake calculus I and II just because the university would not accept those transfer hours towards a BS in CS. They would accept them for other majors, but not mathematics or CS. Just something you may want to check into.

One more thing I would like to add, is that a CS degree will allow you to be language independent. When you graduate you should be able to research the syntax of a language for a few days and be able to use it. CS teaches you how to create algorithms and design software. Sure, my university uses C++ in the beginning stages, and we have java classes, but the majority of the classes I have to take do not depend on the language, they depend on the skills you have learned to adapt to what they need. So, I guess I am trying to say, it really won't matter what language you learn, when you graduate with a CS degree you should be able to pick up any of them with little difficulty.