A case for religion, and against AA.

Page 7 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Onceler

Golden Member
Feb 28, 2008
1,264
0
71
Maybe, but you can answer the why question perfectly well without religion at all.

Anyway, which religion? They all claim to be the one true religion, so how do you know the difference? Which one ISN'T lying? Present your evidence.

The only true religion is Hermetics. It is a system of beliefs and training that can be used with any religion as a base. Principles like Karma and reincarnation that kind of stuff. The greater the number of universal truths the longer that religion is around.
 
Last edited:

Onceler

Golden Member
Feb 28, 2008
1,264
0
71
A sin is a willful act against the will of god, right?

How can a child know the will of god if it takes an adult praying and meditating on god to know it? How can an infant know ANYTHING about good and evil?

Please, show me proof that infants can think abstractly and understand the concept of god and sin.

An infant is born with the sins of it's previous life. It does not know good or evil, that comes when they mature enough to deal with it.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,637
3,095
136
An infant is born with the sins of it's previous life. It does not know good or evil, that comes when they mature enough to deal with it.

Question for you. There used to be less people on earth than there are today. Are more souls made every time the population of the earth increases? How can everyone have a past life if there are more people than there are souls?
 

beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
5,223
1,598
136
What harm is there believing in fiction for a spell?

Because people blow themselves and other people up because of the fake believes. Thats the problem. /End discussion

Then also read the old testament. It's fully of quotes like "You have to kill everyone that doesn't believe or believes in another good or else you shall be killed".

So no, it's not just Islam thats the problem.
 

sao123

Lifer
May 27, 2002
12,648
201
106
There are no non-biblical sources validating the existance of jesus or any of the purported events. Nothing was mentioned outside of the bible by anyone alive during his lifetime let alone anyone born during his lifetime.

er um...

The Crucifixion of Jesus Christ by Pontius Pilate under the rule of Tiberius Caesar Divi Augusti filius Augustus is documented within Roman history.

The Babylonian Talmud (Sanhedrin 43a) confirms Jesus' crucifixion on the eve of Passover and the accusations against Christ of practicing sorcery and encouraging Jewish apostasy.

Flavius Josephus is the most famous Jewish historian. In his Antiquities he refers to James, “the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ.” He also says , “Now there was about this time Jesus, His conduct was good and [he] was known to be virtuous."

it is also well documented the execution of John the Baptist by Hērǭdēs Antipatros by the historian Josephus, as well as his Baptism of Jesus Christ.


Both the Baptism and Crucifixion of Jesus Christ are accepted as undisputed historical facts without consulting a single biblical verse.
 

beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
5,223
1,598
136
Science will give you the means to do so, but religion will give you the reason to do.

very well said.

What evidence do you have that God and Jesus do not exist?
The exact same as evidence that Santa does not exist.

lol, well done.

you could very well be living a fantasy, holding on to a delusion that there is no God.

A delusion is to belief in something that does not exist and is irrational. Therefore per definition atheism can never be delusional. We do not belief in something irrational or something that does not exist. Religion however does exactly this:

A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.

The problem is that most religious people don't care and don't want to hear about modern physics (eg. big bang, relativity, quantum mechanics and string theory) and they have not worked in a lab and seen evolution at work in bacteria. This is the "superior evidence".
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
126
The problem is that most religious people don't care and don't want to hear about modern physics (eg. big bang, relativity, quantum mechanics and string theory) and they have not worked in a lab and seen evolution at work in bacteria. This is the "superior evidence".
the problem is that most atheist cannot prove that God does not exist....duh....
 

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

All it takes is ignorance which is an inherently human trait anyway. I feel like Atheists really show their lack of understanding of the human condition. The entire point of religion is to give the average joe a couple of critical tools they can use deal with the complexities of life.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,131
5,658
126
All it takes is ignorance which is an inherently human trait anyway. I feel like Atheists really show their lack of understanding of the human condition. The entire point of religion is to give the average joe a couple of critical tools they can use deal with the complexities of life.

Like?
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,663
4,137
136
the problem is that most atheist cannot prove that God does not exist....duh....

Must be nice to go through life with such a simple mind. You're real question should have been "Christians cannot prove the god they believe is real exists". That is your positive claim. We are just mearly waiting for your evidence of believing this.

Cannot prove a negative and all that jazz. I know. Complex stuff for you.
 

dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
4,763
327
126
Must be nice to go through life with such a simple mind. You're real question should have been "Christians cannot prove the god they believe is real exists". That is your positive claim. We are just mearly waiting for your evidence of believing this.

Cannot prove a negative and all that jazz. I know. Complex stuff for you.

Actually Christians can, but not with the "evidence" you require. That takes faith, a step beyond what you are comfortable with and accept there is something greater than you.

I see God's existence everyday. I see His proof everyday, in the little and the large. From the grain of sand on a beach to string theory, I see His hand in all of it. That is proof for me He is.
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,663
4,137
136
Actually Christians can, but not with the "evidence" you require. That takes faith, a step beyond what you are comfortable with and accept there is something greater than you.

I see God's existence everyday. I see His proof everyday, in the little and the large. From the grain of sand on a beach to string theory, I see His hand in all of it. That is proof for me He is.

Unfortunatly faith is not proof. So you'll never be able to prove what you believe in. Again. Takes a simple mind to do that and just believe what you're told without any backing evidence as well as ignoring all evidence to the contrary.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,150
108
106
Unfortunatly faith is not proof. So you'll never be able to prove what you believe in. Again. Takes a simple mind to do that and just believe what you're told without any backing evidence as well as ignoring all evidence to the contrary

What "evidence to the contrary"? This has been requested at least once in this thread.

This is where you guys get empty-headed. You claim, again, to have evidence to the contrary, then say you cannot "prove a negative".

Again, where's this "evidence to the contrary"?
 

dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
4,763
327
126
Unfortunatly faith is not proof. So you'll never be able to prove what you believe in. Again. Takes a simple mind to do that and just believe what you're told without any backing evidence as well as ignoring all evidence to the contrary.

I have asked before and you still have not given any evidence to the contrary. But you do change the subject well thus avoiding answering.

I may have a simple mind and perhaps you and others like you are far superior. But great and wonderful things have happened in my life I can only attribute to my return to my faith. I am in a much better place now that I found my way back to God.

So that is my case for religion per the topic of this discussion. I neither expect nor require atheists to agree though I would hope to change someone's thinking by witnessing my faith to others albeit in an anonymous Internet forum.
 

beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
5,223
1,598
136
the problem is that most atheist cannot prove that God does not exist....duh....

Yeah all religious idiots come up with this stupid "argument". It isn't an argument. Science is about proofing things not disproving them. Since religion says there is a god, is must also give proof of it. You can't come up with a theory without a single shred of evidence and then asking other to disprove it. No, that's not even close how science works (but then religions fanatics never get that either).

You know, it's been scientifically proven that the lack of religious belief (eg. atheism) directly correlates with higher intelligence. And here the circle ends. because it's obvious that you get annoyed and angry to having to reply to the same stupid arguments day in and day out and they still never get it.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,150
108
106
I have asked before and you still have not given any evidence to the contrary. But you do change the subject well thus avoiding answering.

I think what has been proven beyond doubt is that it takes just as much faith to be an atheist as it does to be a believer.

It's also proven that some atheists in this thread are incredulous liars by claiming there is evidence to the contrary, then retreated behind the wall of "not proving a negative" when called out on it.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,150
108
106
Yeah all religious idiots come up with this stupid "argument". It isn't an argument. Science is about proofing things not disproving them. Since religion says there is a god, is must also give proof of it. You can't come up with a theory without a single shred of evidence and then asking other to disprove it. No, that's not even close how science works (but then religions fanatics never get that either).

You know, it's been scientifically proven that the lack of religious belief (eg. atheism) directly correlates with higher intelligence. And here the circle ends. because it's obvious that you get annoyed and angry to having to reply to the same stupid arguments day in and day out and they still never get it.

People wouldn't ask for evidence if (1) your ilk would stop lying about there being evidence to the contrary, and (2) if you stopped proselytizing your "lack" of belief all over the internet.

You can't say I'm delusional without being asked why, and if there is no evidence, I've not been proven to be delusional. You cannot make claims of me being delusional an then ask me to refute it. You made the claim. Back it up.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
I think what has been proven beyond doubt is that it takes just as much faith to be an atheist as it does to be a believer.

It's also proven that some atheists in this thread are incredulous liars by claiming there is evidence to the contrary, then retreated behind the wall of "not proving a negative" when called out on it.

No, absolutely not.

As an example, what if I said I have no organs, bones, blood, etc., my body is filled with delicious pasta but yet I live? I am not going to provide any evidence of this extraordinary claim. Anyone who thinks about this for a few seconds realizes that this goes against the natural order of how the universe works. And all the evidence points to the fact that I do have a normal body, I have had to wear casts, have taken medication that works, etc.

So now my only ridiculous position to take is telling you that you are not able to disprove that I don't have pasta in place of normal human parts, or to admit maybe I'm wrong.

This is the position some of you of faith are taking... that these ridiculous claims can't be unproven, so therefore you're just as right as an atheist. Your claims are the ones that go against the natural order of everything we know. The burden is on the faithful to provide evidence that jesus was the son of god, that he performed miracles that cannot otherwise be explained, etc. etc. The burden of proof is on the faithful to prove that their religion is the right one, that mohammad is allah's prophet, that jesus is god's divine son, etc.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,150
108
106
As an example, what if I said I have no organs, bones, blood, etc., my body is filled with delicious pasta but yet I live? I am not going to provide any evidence of this extraordinary claim.

You don't have to provide "evidence" as we know that isn't true. Some things you know aren't true...you don't need to provide evidence.

That was a garbage analogy.

So now my only ridiculous position to take is telling you that you are not able to disprove that I don't have pasta in place of normal human parts, or to admit maybe I'm wrong.

But I am able to disprove it. Heard of an X-ray? ...or I could simply cut you open.

Your analogy is terrible.


This is the position some of you of faith are taking... that these ridiculous claims can't be unproven, so therefore you're just as right as an atheist. Your claims are the ones that go against the natural order of everything we know. The burden is on the faithful to provide evidence that jesus was the son of god, that he performed miracles that cannot otherwise be explained, etc. etc. The burden of proof is on the faithful to prove that their religion is the right one, that mohammad is allah's prophet, that jesus is god's divine son, etc.

Your analogy isn't remotely the same as what you wrote here. I can easliy disprove your "pasta parts" claim. That's a scientific claim, and a ridiculous analogy because it can be disproven quite easily and by anyone with a knife.
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
121
Unfortunatly faith is not proof. So you'll never be able to prove what you believe in. Again. Takes a simple mind to do that and just believe what you're told without any backing evidence as well as ignoring all evidence to the contrary.
He can see God because God lives within him. Anyone who has "faith" in God because someone told him to is indeed simple-minded and I would highly question this "faith"....so you're framing this wrongly in my opinion. What you don't seem to understand is that faith comes from a deeply personal relationship with our creator which is evidence that's impossible to ignore. The kind of rational evidence you seem to want doesn't exist....however the spiritual evidence you actually need does. You are not the center of this universe as your ego would have you believe, God is the center of this universe and when your ego dies to this truth then you will know to the very depth of your soul what faith actually means. Surrender is incredibly difficult as our egos hold the lie dear. This may sound like mumbo-jumbo to you but I thought it was worth saying on the outside chance that you're actually open to attempting to understand something that's relatively common in our society but obviously completely foreign to you. I'm sure others more articulate than myself can explain this better...but I thought I'd give it a shot.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
I meant to disprove it from where you are, I'm telling you that this is true, disprove it. You can't. But you're too focused on trying to pick a part a meaningless part of the analogy to distract from the fact that you can't refute the point being made.

The point was that my extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence to believe. Hell, in the case of christianity can we even get some normal evidence that jesus did the things the bible says? (Hint: No.) For me to get you to believe the ridiculous claim that I have pasta in place of normal human parts I would have to do something to prove that to you. Likewise for a thinking person to believe the ridiculous claims in the bible, some credible evidence would have to present itself. So far there has been nothing.

It isn't a viable position for me to take to say that you aren't able to disprove my ridiculous claims, so therefore I'm just as right, because the burden of proof is on those making the extraordinary claims.
 
Last edited:

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,693
2,155
126
You don't have to provide "evidence" as we know that isn't true. Some things you know aren't true...you don't need to provide evidence.

That was a garbage analogy.



But I am able to disprove it. Heard of an X-ray? ...or I could simply cut you open.

Your analogy is terrible.




Your analogy isn't remotely the same as what you wrote here. I can easliy disprove your "pasta parts" claim. That's a scientific claim, and a ridiculous analogy because it can be disproven quite easily and by anyone with a knife.

We also know that it is impossible for a virgin to become pregnant without the use of modern medicine, it's impossible to fit 2 of every single animal on a boat, it's impossible for the entire earth to flood, etc... That doesn't stop you from believing those things.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,150
108
106
We also know that it is impossible for a virgin to become pregnant without the use of modern medicine, it's impossible to fit 2 of every single animal on a boat, it's impossible for the entire earth to flood, etc... That doesn't stop you from believing those things.

Because God is involved. That's the difference. With God, all things are possible.

Whether you believe God exists or lack that belief, that explains why we believe things like that. In order for us to know God was involved, those things had to defy natural law and human capability.

I'm shocked that many who claim they "used" to be believers fail to grasp these fundamentals.
 
Last edited:
Nov 29, 2006
15,663
4,137
136
What "evidence to the contrary"? This has been requested at least once in this thread.

This is where you guys get empty-headed. You claim, again, to have evidence to the contrary, then say you cannot "prove a negative".

Again, where's this "evidence to the contrary"?

That fact we cant find any evidence of his existence is also the evidence to disprove god. The lack of evidence in this case is the evidence.
 

Zargon

Lifer
Nov 3, 2009
12,240
2
76
These things are learning experiences. They are practice for developing critical thinking skills.
Children are told that these things are real, but as they gain life experiences they start to realize that what they know of the Santa or the Easter Bunny does not fit into what they know of the world, and so they start to doubt. Many parents create elaborate stories to try and maintain the ruse, but eventually the child’s skepticism wins out and they stop believing.

The Jesus/God myth should be the same thing, but for some reason people keep believing in that one even after they have seen plenty of evidence that it is not real.

right, its OK because its your lie and you made up a reason for it.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |