A case for religion, and against AA.

[Exophase]

no it`s an amazing conclusion to somebody who lacks the understanding of the scriptures.....
Retro Rob has these passages 100% correct!!

You're right, it all starts to make a lot more sense when you ignore what it's actually saying.

 

[JEDIYoda]

You're right, it all starts to make a lot more sense when you ignore what it's actually saying.

pray tell what do you believe it is actually saying??

 

[JEDIYoda]

This is the agreed on meaning by most Bible Scholars and Theologians -- It means that although God is invisible, his eternal power and divine nature can be evidenced by observing his creation. Just look up into the night sky and ask yourself whether the universe, this planet and everything on it got here by accident.

Even other translations of the Bible agree -- For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. Romans 1:20 NASB

http://biblehub.com/romans/1-20.htm

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

This is the agreed on meaning by most Bible Scholars and Theologians -- It means that although God is invisible, his eternal power and divine nature can be evidenced by observing his creation. Just look up into the night sky and ask yourself whether the universe, this planet and everything on it got here by accident.

These comments of yours betray a woeful misunderstanding of the nature of "evidence" and some (shall we say) "unfortunate" presuppositions about the possible ontological modes of reality.

(Yes, yes, I know... I just happen to have lots of pearls so what do I care if I cast them here or there. Maybe before they're trampled by swine someone else will spot them and reap their worth.)

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally Posted by Cerpin Taxt View Post
Don't you realize who you're speaking with?

Gotta Love it....

 

[JEDIYoda]

These comments of yours betray a woeful misunderstanding of the nature of "evidence" and some (shall we say) "unfortunate" presuppositions about the possible ontological modes of reality.

(Yes, yes, I know... I just happen to have lots of pearls so what do I care if I cast them here or there. Maybe before they're trampled by swine someone else will spot them and reap their worth.)

The issue was an interpretation of Romans 1:20.......you can do your best to stammer and explain away all you want...go for it!!

Yet almost all Bible Theologians all agree on what I posted.....so lets see....theur word as opposed to your word......
Theologians 1 -- Cerpin -- 0

 

[sandorski]

The issue was an interpretation of Romans 1:20.......you can do your best to stammer and explain away all you want...go for it!!

Yet almost all Bible Theologians all agree on what I posted.....so lets see....theur word as opposed to your word......
Theologians 1 -- Cerpin -- 0

This response doesn't even make sense.

 

[jackstar7]

You are wrong. You quoted him as saying people believing without seeing. All that's saying is that you don't have to see him to know he exists.

That's not saying belief without evidence.

Wow. And you told me that I twist things to fit my view...

Amazing.

 

[Exophase]

This is the agreed on meaning by most Bible Scholars and Theologians -- It means that although God is invisible, his eternal power and divine nature can be evidenced by observing his creation. Just look up into the night sky and ask yourself whether the universe, this planet and everything on it got here by accident.

Even other translations of the Bible agree -- For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. Romans 1:20 NASB

http://biblehub.com/romans/1-20.htm

I agree, that is what the verse is saying. And that the message is amazing (and by amazing, I mean an absurd leap of logic)

Let's say for the sake of argument that that people, other life forms, and the world around us appear to have been created by a being or group of beings more intelligent than humans. Mind you, I don't think that - I think that there are natural explanations for the development of the world and life that are not just plausible but expected from our understanding of nature, and that I no more see the necessity of a deity in this process than I would see God actively making gravity happen. But let's say for sake of argument.

What would that tell us about the nature of whoever made the earth? eternal and divine? Why?

The reason why Paul expects these aspects to be self-evident is because he's starting from a position of being heavily inundated with ideas of God's role in the development of the world and his interaction with humanity. And I guess he expects the same from his readers. It doesn't mean that such detailed evidence of the nature of God is actually present in physical observation.

 

[PingviN]

Theologians 1 -- Cerpin -- 0

People who study something that doesn't exist shouldn't be taken too seriously. Much like holistic medicine or astrology. People might believe in it, but that doesn't make it true.

 

[JEDIYoda]

People who study something that doesn't exist shouldn't be taken too seriously. Much like holistic medicine or astrology. People might believe in it, but that doesn't make it true.

Rather than give an interpretation of Romans 1:20 -- Atheist resort to the Atheist talking points.....lolol

 

[PingviN]

Rather than give an interpretation of Romans 1:20 -- Atheist resort to the Atheist talking points.....lolol

Yeah, I wish we could all just act irrational and as if our only education was a year of Bible school. That kind of childish ignorance would make everything so easy.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Yeah, I wish we could all just act irrational and as if our only education was a year of Bible school. That kind of childish ignorance would make everything so easy.

always ducking the issue I see....hahahaa

 

[PingviN]

always ducking the issue I see....hahahaa

Pot calling the kettle black.

"Atheist talking points....... bla bla [insert lack of arguments here] atheist talking points......."

 

[OverVolt]

Yeah, I wish we could all just act irrational and as if our only education was a year of Bible school. That kind of childish ignorance would make everything so easy.

Except all the best schools in the area are catholic schools... oh why bother with this thread you probably are a derpy derp who went to public school anyway if you actually believe evangelical baptists are the norm etc. etc. If you are going to be an atheist at least do it right FFS.

 

[jackstar7]

Except all the best schools in the area are catholic schools... oh why bother with this thread you probably are a derpy derp who went to public school anyway if you actually believe evangelical baptists are the norm etc. etc. If you are going to be an atheist at least do it right FFS.

Why are catholic schools the best in your area?

I went to one and I have some ideas why that experience was better than my latter public school experience, but I'm curious to hear your take.

Also, I don't think learning religion and the like in catholic school had anything to do with the quality of the rest of my education. If anything, I look back and think it was time that could have been spent on reading better books...

 

[PingviN]

Except all the best schools in the area are catholic schools... oh why bother with this thread you probably are a derpy derp who went to public school anyway if you actually believe evangelical baptists are the norm etc. etc. If you are going to be an atheist at least do it right FFS.

Ehm, what?

 

[OverVolt]

..

 

[OverVolt]

..

 

[Onceler]

For one, since both sides form part of the argument, you cant just tell atheists to be nice. The reality is that BOTH sides need to agree to be nice.

In any case, fiction or not, people judge, kill and main for their gods. They discriminate against people who are different in gender, race, sexual orientation, and religion. That creates more hate in this world, not less. Are you okay with your child hating others?

If religion did not harm others, sure, believe what you want. But its not atheism that causes discrimination against gay people. Its not atheism that threatens the death sentence for apostasy. Its not atheism that carries out terrorist attacks.

Atheism just gives rise to people like Hitler and Stalin.

 

[norseamd]

Holy shit, I thought this clusterfuck of bickering and battering had ended.

Do we really have to go for round 2, or round 3, or whatever round it is at already?

 

[sandorski]

Atheism just gives rise to people like Hitler and Stalin.

How? Hitler, by all accounts, was not an Atheist. Stalin likely was, given the stance of the Soviet Union and Marx's low opinion of Religion, but in what way does Atheism "give rise" to these types of people?

 

[flexy]

Contrary to what I believed some while ago, religion is NOT the root of all evil. "People like Hitler or Stalin" or crazies in general can rise in an atheist society AS WELL as in a religious society.

Religion is (just) one result of the craziness of humans in general.

If it's an "atheist" society, humans organize in other ways and form other power structures, they will always find a reason to commit atrocities, control people etc...whether this is in a "religious" context or not. It's human nature.

 

[piasabird]

I look around at christmas and halloween and easter and I think everyone is nuts. As long as people get free stuff they dont care what lie they have to believe in. Giant bunny, Santa Clause magic snowmen witches and ghosts. It is all possible. What a joke. Time to put up the lights honey.

 

[sandorski]

Contrary to what I believed some while ago, religion is NOT the root of all evil. "People like Hitler or Stalin" or crazies in general can rise in an atheist society AS WELL as in a religious society.

Religion is (just) one result of the craziness of humans in general.

If it's an "atheist" society, humans organize in other ways and form other power structures, they will always find a reason to commit atrocities, control people etc...whether this is in a "religious" context or not. It's human nature.

I agree.