A developer who doesn't blame pirates for a change

samduhman

Senior member
Jul 18, 2005
397
2
81
While discussions of piracy are welcomed here, openly admitting to software piracy is not permitted. Please cease doing so, or it will result in the offending members posting privileges being suspended- PC Gaming Mod Oakenfold.

Unlike those other developers who immediately blame pirates this developers actually sounds intelligent.

read it here
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
Piracy & PC Gaming
By Draginol Posted March 10, 2008 20:48:46

Recently there has been a lot of talk about how piracy affects PC gaming. And if you listen to game developers, it apparently is a foregone conclusion - if a high quality PC game doesn't sell as many copies as it should, it must be because of piracy.

Now, I don't like piracy at all. It really bugs me when I see my game up on some torrent site just on the principle of the matter. And piracy certainly does cost sales. But arguing that piracy is the primary factor in lower sales of well made games? I don't think so.
Is it about business or glory?

Most people who know of Stardock in the gaming world think of it as a tiny indie shop. And we certainly are tiny in terms of game development. But in the desktop enhancement market, Stardock owns that market and it's a market with many millions of users. According to CNET, 6 of the top 10 most popular desktop enhancements are developed by Stardock. Our most popular desktop enhancement, WindowBlinds, has almost 14 million downloads just on Download.com. We have over a million registered users.

If you want to talk about piracy, talk about desktop enhancements. The piracy on that is huge. But the question isn't about piracy. It's about sales.

So here is the deal: When you develop for a market, you don't go by the user base. You go by the potential customer base. That's what most software companies do. They base what they want to create on the size of the market they're developing for. But not PC game developers.

PC game developers seem to focus more on the "cool" factor. What game can they make that will get them glory with the game magazines and gaming websites and hard core gamers? These days, it seems like game developers want to be like rock stars more than businessmen. I've never considered myself a real game developer. I'm a gamer who happens to know how to code and also happens to be reasonably good at business.

So when I make a game, I focus on making games that I think will be the most profitable. As a gamer, I like most games. I love Bioshock. I think the Orange Box is one of the best gaming deals ever. I love Company of Heroes and Oblivion was captivating. My two favorite games of all time are Civilization (I, II, III, and IV) and Total Annihilation. And I won't even get into the hours lost in WoW. Heck, I even like The Sims.

So when it comes time to make a game, I don't have a hard time thinking of a game I'd like to play. The hard part is coming up with a game that we can actually make that will be profitable. And that means looking at the market as a business not about trying to be "cool".
Making games for customers versus making games for users

So even though Galactic Civilizations II sold 300,000 copies making 8 digits in revenue on a budget of less than $1 million, it's still largely off the radar. I practically have to agree to mow editors lawns to get coverage. And you should see Jeff Green's (Games for Windows) yard. I still can't find my hedge trimmers.

Another game that has been off the radar until recently was Sins of a Solar Empire. With a small budget, it has already sold about 200,000 copies in the first month of release. It's the highest rated PC game of 2008 and probably the best selling 2008 PC title. Neither of these titles have CD copy protection.

And yet we don't get nearly the attention of other PC games. Lack of marketing on our part? We bang on the doors for coverage as next as the next shop. Lack of advertising? Open up your favorite PC game publication for the past few months and take note of all the 2 page spreads for Sins of a Solar Empire. So we certainly try.

But we still don't get the editorial buzz that some of the big name titles do because our genre isn't considered as "cool" as other genres. Imagine what our sales would be if our games had gotten game magazine covers and just massive editorial coverage like some of the big name games get. I don't want to suggest we get treated poorly by game magazine and web sites (not just because I fear them -- which I do), we got good preview coverage on Sins, just not the same level as one of the "mega" titles would get. Hard core gamers have different tastes in games than the mainstream PC gaming market of game buyers. Remember Roller Coaster Tycoon? Heck, how much buzz does The Sims get in terms of editorial when compared to its popularity. Those things just aren't that cool to the hard core gaming crowd that everything seems geared toward despite the fact that they're not the ones buying most of the games.

I won't even mention some of the big name PC titles that GalCiv and Sins have outsold. There's plenty of PC games that have gotten dedicated covers that haven't sold as well. So why is that?

Our games sell well for three reasons. First, they're good games which is a pre-requisite. But there's lots of great games that don't sell well.

The other two reasons are:

* Our games work on a very wide variety of hardware configurations.
* Our games target genres with the largest customer bases per cost to produce for.


We also don't make games targeting the Chinese market

When you make a game for a target market, you have to look at how many people will actually buy your game combined with how much it will cost to make a game for that target market. What good is a large number of users if they're not going to buy your game? And what good is a market where the minimal commitment to make a game for it is $10 million if the target audience isn't likely to pay for the game?

If the target demographic for your game is full of pirates who won't buy your game, then why support them? That's one of the things I have a hard time understanding. It's irrelevant how many people will play your game (if you're in the business of selling games that is). It's only relevant how many people are likely to buy your game.

Stardock doesn't make games targeting the Chinese market. If we spent $10 million on a PC game explicitly for the Chinese market and we lost our shirts, would you really feel that much sympathy for us? Or would you think "Duh."


You need a machine how fast?

Anyone who keeps track of how many PCs the "Gamer PC" vendors sell each year could tell you that it's insane to develop a game explicitly for hard core gamers. Insane. I think people would be shocked to find out how few hard core gamers there really are out there. This data is available. The number of high end graphics cards sold each year isn't a trade secret (in some cases you may have to get an NDA but if you're a partner you can find out). So why are companies making games that require them to sell to 15% of a given market to be profitable? In what other market do companies do that? In other software markets, getting 1% of the target market is considered good. If you need to sell 500,000 of your game to break even and your game requires Pixel Shader 3 to not look like crap or play like crap, do you you really think that there are 50 MILLION PC users with Pixel Shader 3 capable machines who a) play games and b) will actually buy your game if a pirated version is available?

In our case, we make games that target the widest possible audience as long as as we can still deliver the gaming experience we set out to. Anyone who's looked at the graphics in Sins of a Solar Empire would, I think, agree that the graphics are pretty phenomenal (particularly space battles). But could they be even fancier? Sure. But only if we degraded the gaming experience for the largest chunk of people who buy games.


The problem with blaming piracy

I don't want anyone to walk away from this article thinking I am poo-pooing the effect of piracy. I'm not. I definitely feel for game developers who want to make kick ass PC games who see their efforts diminished by a bunch of greedy pirates. I just don't count pirates in the first place. If you're a pirate, you don't get a vote on what gets made -- or you shouldn't if the company in question is trying to make a profit.

The reason why we don't put copy protection on our games isn't because we're nice guys. We do it because the people who actually buy games don't like to mess with it. Our customers make the rules, not the pirates. Pirates don't count. We know our customers could pirate our games if they want but choose to support our efforts. So we return the favor - we make the games they want and deliver them how they want it. This is also known as operating like every other industry outside the PC game industry.

One of the jokes I've seen in the desktop enhancement market is how "ugly" WindowBlinds skins are (though there are plenty of awesome ones too). But the thing is, the people who buy WindowBlinds tend to like a different style of skin than the people who would never buy it in the first place. Natural selection, so to speak, over many years has created a number of styles that seem to be unique to people who actually buy WindowBlinds. That's the problem with piracy. What gets made targets people who buy it, not the people who would never buy it in the first place. When someone complains about "fat borders" on some popular WindowBlinds skin my question is always "Would you buy WindowBlinds even if there was a perfect skin for you?" and the answer is inevitably "Probably not". That's how it works in every market -- the people who buy stuff call the shots. Only in the PC game market are the people who pirate stuff still getting the overwhelming percentage of development resources and editorial support.

When you blame piracy for disappointing sales, you tend to tar the entire market with a broad brush. Piracy isn't evenly distributed in the PC gaming market.

Blaming piracy is easy. But it hides other underlying causes. When Sins popped up as the #1 best selling game at retail a couple weeks ago, a game that has no copy protect whatsoever, that should tell you that piracy is not the primary issue.

In the end, the pirates hurt themselves. PC game developers will either slowly migrate to making games that cater to the people who buy PC games or they'll move to platforms where people are more inclined to buy games.

In the meantime, if you want to make profitable PC games, I'd recommend focusing more effort on satisfying the people willing to spend money on your product and less effort on making what others perceive as hot. But then again, I don't romanticize PC game development. I just want to play cool games and make a profit on games that I work on.
 

ja1484

Platinum Member
Dec 31, 2007
2,438
2
0

Very well written and thought out.

I agree with most of it: I think the reason the *large* studios have trouble making money on high-profile PC titles is that they develop and market them like hollywood does with big budget movies. They spend a shit-ton on development and and marketing, and thus need to sell ever larger quantities for the title to be profitable.

Piracy is there, but I don't think it's any more rampant than it used to be. Hell, remember when games came on 3.5" floppies? My friends and I would share one copy between like 10 of us. Now we all buy our own copies because we're big people with income. If anything, I'd bet that piracy has decreased in scope, it's just getting more media attention because the big studios need a scapegoat.

Yes, much like Hollywood, big games studios are facing a cost crisis that forces them to develop for the lowest common denominator, which often means you end up with stuff like Army of Two. The game was obviously made for 14-20 year old males, the same way a movie about the same material would be. It's unfortunate, because as we're all well aware Hollywood went mostly to shit over the past 50 years...we shall see what happens to gaming.
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
0
I thought his comment about China was pretty funny and overall a well written response.

Sins actually made me go back and reinstall Homeworld 2, which still looks pretty good for a 5 year old game BTW.
 

jandrews

Golden Member
Aug 3, 2007
1,313
0
0
lol, sins of a solar empire doesnt have a wide target audience since for a veteran it still takes over an hour to really learn how to play (btw I own the game and like it a lot). The game did not have cd protection BUT it did need to be activated via stardock which is nearly the same thing and definately the wave of the future (steam etc). Also, with their games the audience seems different. Most pirates dont want to steal some deep real time strategy game, they are out there stealing the hack and slash or simple first person shooter style games, then again I have no data to back me up just what I believe.
 

Beev

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2006
7,775
0
0
He's pretty much right. Good games don't need DRM. Oblivion had none, still sold like crazy. Companies that use DRM are nothing more than scared their product will suck. I bought Oblivion, I bought Sins. If a game is good, it gets bought, period.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
He is a good businessman with a superb analytical analysis that zeros in right to the heart of the problem
-his intelligence stands out compared to most of the superficial "analysis" we get from publishers *blaming* everything except their own stupidity

that is the difference between his analysis and the Stupid devs that "whine" about everything .. and aren't business smart enough to stay in PC gaming .. Let them go to consoles and take their crap games and reRuns with them - good riddance.

His company is proactive .. and is making the very best of the current marketing conditions .. notice that he also *hates* pirating
 

legoman666

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2003
3,629
1
0
I did download Sins, but that article convinced me to buy it. At least there is one sane game dev left. And like him, I loved Civ 2,3, Alpha Centauri and Total Annihilation.
 

Regs

Lifer
Aug 9, 2002
16,665
21
81
Originally posted by: apoppin
He is a good businessman with a superb analytical analysis that zeros in right to the heart of the problem
-his intelligence stands out compared to most of the superficial "analysis" we get from publishers *blaming* everything except their own stupidity

He just seems like a guy playacting to the public for easy PR like any presidential candidate before he enters office. The politics are never that simple in business and economics. He discusses two major issues: media coverage and the focus of major game developers. It's more of "whine" from him for attention than it has to do with piracy.
 

Krakn3Dfx

Platinum Member
Sep 29, 2000
2,969
1
81
Sins rocks, I bought it the day it was released. I see Sins as the type of game that once you get into and understand, you can consider yourself a better, more attuned gamer for it.

It's funny that he mentions Jeff Green, I know Jeff and Sean over at GFW are big Sins fans.
 

ZzZGuy

Golden Member
Nov 15, 2006
1,855
0
0
Originally posted by: Regs
Originally posted by: apoppin
He is a good businessman with a superb analytical analysis that zeros in right to the heart of the problem
-his intelligence stands out compared to most of the superficial "analysis" we get from publishers *blaming* everything except their own stupidity

He just seems like a guy playacting to the public for easy PR like any presidential candidate before he enters office. The politics are never that simple in business and economics. He discusses two major issues: media coverage and the focus of major game developers. It's more of "whine" from him for attention than it has to do with piracy.

Perhaps, but he practices what he preaches, and it translates into $$ and happy customers. He also didn't do a press interview, he just posted on one of the more active forums he happens to own.

I do admit he probably is making some effort to milk the situation by pointing out his companies position on the topic of piracy which is really starting to get some attention. It makes SD/IC look better with the debate on piracy heating up, where they (SD/IC) can point to their business model that offers a radical alternative that works over what is the "norm" at the moment.

EVERYTHING he said is what SD is currently doing.
 

Krakn3Dfx

Platinum Member
Sep 29, 2000
2,969
1
81
I think most people that are going to pirate a game like Sins probably aren't going to spend a whole heck of a lot of time with it, if they load it up at all. I know when I was big into pirating back in the day (pre-25, and now I'm 35), most of the crap I dl'd I never even installed, it was more the geek high of having access to every game made, usually before they were in stores.

If 200,000 people buy Sins, you know those 200,000 people are looking for something more sophisticated than a game like Halo 3 or C&C3. While those games are fine in their own right, they tend to be much more shallow and quick to offer instant gratification. Sins is more like a non-MMO based Eve, except even deeper than that.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Regs
Originally posted by: apoppin
He is a good businessman with a superb analytical analysis that zeros in right to the heart of the problem
-his intelligence stands out compared to most of the superficial "analysis" we get from publishers *blaming* everything except their own stupidity

He just seems like a guy playacting to the public for easy PR like any presidential candidate before he enters office. The politics are never that simple in business and economics. He discusses two major issues: media coverage and the focus of major game developers. It's more of "whine" from him for attention than it has to do with piracy.

*except* he practices what he preaches

UNlike politicians .. unlike most religious leaders

he is *successful*

listen to a successful person when they speak from experience .. who cares what "failures" think
[failures don't think - they make "excuses" .. "piracy killed us" crap, instead of really analyzing what happened and learning from it.
 

BladeVenom

Lifer
Jun 2, 2005
13,540
16
0
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: Regs
Originally posted by: apoppin
He is a good businessman with a superb analytical analysis that zeros in right to the heart of the problem
-his intelligence stands out compared to most of the superficial "analysis" we get from publishers *blaming* everything except their own stupidity

He just seems like a guy playacting to the public for easy PR like any presidential candidate before he enters office. The politics are never that simple in business and economics. He discusses two major issues: media coverage and the focus of major game developers. It's more of "whine" from him for attention than it has to do with piracy.

*except* he practices what he preaches

UNlike politicians .. unlike most religious leaders

he is *successful*

listen to a successful person when they speak from experience .. who cares what "failures" think
[failures don't think - they make "excuses" .. "piracy killed us" crap, instead of really analyzing what happened and learning from it.

+1, He's been saying the same thing at least as far back as 2003 when Galactic Civilization came out for the PC.

I can't figure why anyone would think he says it for PR. He gets very little press, as he stated. Since what he says isn't what the gaming industry wants to hear, and since the gaming press are shills for the industry, he won't get much press coverage for it. It's not even an interview; he has to use his own site to get heard by gamers.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,077
136
A bit off topic here, but after reading the mod addition to the OP I have to ask; it's against policy to post that you may at one time have pirated because it's illegal, but I don't think I've ever seen a mod say anything in the multiple speeding threads in OT when people admit to speeding. What's the deal?

The PC Gaming forum is definitely not the place for such questions, but please feel free to post it in personal forum issues.-Anandtech Moderator DAPUNISHER
 

schdaddy

Golden Member
Oct 1, 2000
1,015
0
0
Originally posted by: TheVrolok
A bit off topic here, but after reading the mod addition to the OP I have to ask; it's against policy to post that you may at one time have pirated because it's illegal, but I don't think I've ever seen a mod say anything in the multiple speeding threads in OT when people admit to speeding. What's the deal?


That was exactlly my train of thought. OT has many threads with illegal or immoral topics and/or subject matter, that have not been edited by a mod.

So what is the deal? Is copyright infringement really that touchy? And if it is, then we are acting really silly.


-reading article now



EDIT:
Just a FYI for the mod
I posted my comment before reading your reply to TheVrolok.

Again, feel free to start a thread on the topic in personal forum issues, that is why it is there I realize being the "old timers" you two are, the relatively new venue for asking, and getting answers to, questions, concerning site management, policy, ect. may not have garnered your attention/interest or shown its worth to you yet, so I encourage you to give it a go.-Anandtech Moderator-DAPUNISHER
 

Edge1

Senior member
Feb 17, 2007
439
0
0
Based on this article alone - 1 copy of Sins of a Solar Empire = SOLD!

Seems a lot of industries (not just game developers) would benefit from his simple-yet-profound logic. Are you listening RIAA, MPAA ?

Looking forward to getting into a deep strategy title again.
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
0
0
And this hits the nail RIGHT on the head.

"The reason why we don't put copy protection on our games isn't because we're nice guys. We do it because the people who actually buy games don't like to mess with it. Our customers make the rules, not the pirates. Pirates don't count. We know our customers could pirate our games if they want but choose to support our efforts. So we return the favor - we make the games they want and deliver them how they want it. This is also known as operating like every other industry outside the PC game industry."
 

Regs

Lifer
Aug 9, 2002
16,665
21
81
Originally posted by: BladeVenom


I can't figure why anyone would think he says it for PR. He gets very little press, as he stated. Since what he says isn't what the gaming industry wants to hear, and since the gaming press are shills for the industry, he won't get much press coverage for it. It's not even an interview; he has to use his own site to get heard by gamers.

.....

Also, the whole article only brushes the subject of piracy. The article is mostly about the lack of media coverage for smaller firms, like his own, and their lack of taste in games. I believe he only brings up piracy to bring more attention to his entry.

Also, it's been known for some time now that the one big advantage smaller firms have over larger corporations is the ability to pamper or flex for the customer faster and easier than a publicly own corporation.



 

Regs

Lifer
Aug 9, 2002
16,665
21
81
Originally posted by: Specop 007
And this hits the nail RIGHT on the head.

"The reason why we don't put copy protection on our games isn't because we're nice guys. We do it because the people who actually buy games don't like to mess with it. Our customers make the rules, not the pirates. Pirates don't count. We know our customers could pirate our games if they want but choose to support our efforts. So we return the favor - we make the games they want and deliver them how they want it. This is also known as operating like every other industry outside the PC game industry."

The reason why major publishers use bloated or sometimes malicious copy protection is because of their over-extended chain of command and their lack of communication with each other. Smaller publishing and developer firms have the liberty of specialization and minimal over head and over sight.

Basically Mr.CEO of large company asks "how can we improve profit margins?". Then the financial advisor mentions piracy as being one factor (of many factors). This problem gets handed (delegated) to the director of operations. Operations says, " well we can contract with these anti-piracy firms to make special software for us". Problem is being addressed, Mr..CEO is happy.

So now that the CEO is off the middle-mans back, they don't care until there is enough public out cry about the product the CEO would step in and say "your solution did not work, so don't blame me" bit.

I believe the author of this article is spoiled by the luxury of having a job in a smaller firm.
 

Crafty35a

Senior member
Feb 2, 2003
253
0
76
Originally posted by: jandrews
lol, sins of a solar empire doesnt have a wide target audience

He never said that it did. He specifically stated that the goal was not a huge user base, but rather a sizeable customer base.
 

Eeezee

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2005
9,923
0
0
Originally posted by: jandrews
lol, sins of a solar empire doesnt have a wide target audience since for a veteran it still takes over an hour to really learn how to play (btw I own the game and like it a lot). The game did not have cd protection BUT it did need to be activated via stardock which is nearly the same thing and definately the wave of the future (steam etc). Also, with their games the audience seems different. Most pirates dont want to steal some deep real time strategy game, they are out there stealing the hack and slash or simple first person shooter style games, then again I have no data to back me up just what I believe.

I found the game to be very intuitive, actually. It took about 10 minutes to finish all of the tutorial missions (probably less than that actually), and at that point I was ready for a real game.

Sins has its own share of pirates, that much is certain, the author just wrote that they target their games at the people who DON'T pirate, thus increasing sales. It seems obvious to me - they have an idea of what kind of person actually buys games, so they cater to that crowd.

The worst part about DRM is that it doesn't even work. Dumping tons of money into a technology that never works is idiocy.
 
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