A few questions about oaktrail

[warrax10]

I saw this http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/17/...t-with-oak-trail-cpu-stylus-st/#disqus_thread and am trying to get an idea what kind of performance this machine might get. Can oaktrail really run win7 (full version) and get acceptable performance.

In this excellent thread http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2090553 inteluser user seems to imply that oaktrail is below atom and will have a TDP in 4-5w range.

Meanwhile a poster in this thread http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2104706&page=3 seems to imply that oaktrail will compete against AMD's bobcat and zecate (which are 9 and 18 TDP I beleive). I might be misreading that since his posts are a little confusing.

I'm mostly a desktop guy and havn't really followed the atom segment of the market, but my next purchase will be a notebook type computer to replace my home computer (my work computer will do most of the heavy lifting as far computer work is concerned). I was waiting on SB, but the oaktrail concept looks so nerdgasmic that I had to ask the people of the forum if this is even a realistic possibility. I know that SB will blow away oaktrail but...

So here are my questions:

1) What is the closest comp in terms of CPU? Pinetrail? I know that oaktrail is the same family of chips as tunnel creek and moorestown but since those chips don't run windows, Id like to see the closest real world equiv. I understand that comparing a "real" chip with one that is not in the market is silly, but I just want a rough idea of what kind of performance I could get.

2)Are there any computers that run GMA600 IGP or any good benchmarks of the IGP?

3)Is not having a PCI Express gonna cause a significant performance hit for windows?

Thanks,

 

[IntelUser2000]

I was actually waiting for someone else to reply before I did, but looks like I will have to first.

CPU-wise, Pine Trail is a good platform to base it on. There's no benchmarks based on the GMA600 yet, but its a higher clocked version of GMA500. Take a look at how GMA500 performs and add 50-100% on top of that. That should be how Oak Trail does.

When I mentioned using DMI instead of PCI Express, that was for the connection between the CPU and the IOH. Since the memory controller, CPU and the GPU is all on one die, it shouldn't really matter unless you fully stress the IOH which on such a portable device is, quite unlikely.

 

[IntelUser2000]

If you have time read the topic I have posted in another thread that's related to GMA 500/600
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2106762

 

[cbn]

If you have time read the topic I have posted in another thread that's related to GMA 500/600
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2106762

Thanks for posting that interesting observation.

So now it looks like atom will be more efficient on non windows platforms (like Meego) for more than one reason?

1. elimination of PCI bus saves some power
2. GMA 500/600 will work better on linux OSes.

I just wonder if Moorestown/Medfield will work on Chrome OS? Does anyone know if that Operating system requires a PCI bus?

 

[Nemesis 1]

If you have time read the topic I have posted in another thread that's related to GMA 500/600
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2106762

Isn't Oak trail 32nm . Moorestown GMA600 45nm , Medfield is is 2x faster than moorestown in Graphics. Oak trail is actually designed to be a gaming SoC and ya its said to run windows7. I would expect more than just doubling of speed on the Oaktrail SoC. You tie WiFI into these handhelds and its a very concentric solution

 

[IntelUser2000]

Nah, Oak Trail is still 45nm. But its based on Lincroft so its LP 45nm.

 

[warrax10]

Thanks very helpful,

I guess I'll check out the current netbooks at Fry's to get an feel for the performance. I'm assuming that oaktrail will be single core correct?

That said, it looks like the claims that the company is making is more hype then reality given the limited information I've found on the net about oaktrail. I wonder why we did'nt get more info at IDF on oaktrail given that oaktrail and Sandybridge has roughly the same launch schedule. The only thing I could find was the tech demo of above linked tablet and the handheld game machine by the same company and niether where working models. If there is working silicon of Sandybridge, I wonder why no working silicon of oaktrail:hmm:?

Anyways, thanks for the info is gave me a great place to start.

 

[cbn]

Medfield is is 2x faster than moorestown in Graphics.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3696/...00-series-the-fastest-smartphone-processor/15

In 2011 we’ll meet Medfield. A 32nm shrink of Moorestown that combines Lincroft and Langwell into a single SoC. Medfield will double graphics performance, triple imaging capability (higher MP cameras) and bring full HD encode/decode (Blu-ray on my phone?). A reduction in chip count will mean even smaller form factors, while the move to a single 32nm SoC (rather than 45nm + 65nm) should give us longer battery life for idle, video and web browsing. Things like talk time are more a function of the modem than anything else. When you’re on a call the majority of Intel’s components are almost completely powered down, it’s just the modem and its friends that are sipping power.

Can someone explain how Medfield will double graphics performance?

Is Intel planning on using a different Power VR SGX GPU?

 

[Nemesis 1]

Nah, Oak Trail is still 45nm. But its based on Lincroft so its LP 45nm.

If you say so . It must be true.^ Look at the last IGP on atom. Than look at it on 32nm. I would hope for a 2x improvement Medfield . Oak Trail will be finalized now in its top performance configuration. The Medfield model was set. Intel will have an ans. for zacata. It should be an interesting match.

 

[warrax10]

I just thought I'd throw these links out there just in case someone is interested.

http://www.umpcportal.com/2010/09/power-vr-sgx-intel-gma600-demonstrated-at-idf/

http://www.umpcportal.com/2010/09/e-series-tunnel-creek-atom-modules/

The first link show a video of demos but not actual engines so its pretty meh in terms of getting insight on performance of GMA600.

The second has some spec info, I'm not sure if its new info or not but it was new to me.

While we’ve heard about Oaktrail and Moorestown, we haven’t exactly seen a lot of complete products that allow us to test the next-gen Atom CPU architecture. Word from Intel is that we’re looking at 50x less idle power, 20x lower thermal envelope (a statement that is difficult to quantify) and in certain scenarios, 50% or more power reduction. MP3 playback and video playback, for example, should take a lot less power.

50x less idle power 20x lower thermal envelope. I'm thinking this is some kinda typo right?

 

[IntelUser2000]

50x less idle power 20x lower thermal envelope. I'm thinking this is some kinda typo right?

That's Moorestown, which is a totally different beast from Oak Trail.

Well, the DNA is same, but Moorestown is for Tablets and Smartphones.

They have to get it that low in order to get in Smartphones. They achieve 50x lower platform level idle power by extensive clock and power gating throughout the SoC and the platform, along with a OS that is optimized around the platform.

One requirement to get the idle power that low is to forsake legacy components. Which equals not being able to run desktop Windows OSes.

20x lower thermal envelope is referring to the audio playback. Real average power reduction is 2-3x compared to the previous gen.

The previous gen is Menlow, which uses 1.4W on idle and around 2W with audio playback. This level of substantial reduction allows it to be suitable for phone use so a 5.5WHr battery can last 10 days on standby(really its idle on phones), and 2 days with audio playback.

Oak Trail will have maybe 30-40% power reduction compared to Menlow. Oh and BTW the Menlow power figures are when its on a phone form factor, meaning it won't get that low on a device like the Ocosmos.

 

[warrax10]

Ok that makes more sense I guess, but 50x idle power so from 1.4w to 0.0028W still seems like a big deal. Maybe I'm just too easily impressed

 

[IntelUser2000]

Its quite impressive. But what they are doing isn't without sacrifices.