A few questions...

[Gamingphreek]

After lifting on my normal program with my buddies the other day, they mentioned doing negatives for adding bulk.

By negatives, they said putting on more weight than normal and, for instance, in a bench press, the spotter would help lift the bar and the person lifting would be responsible for lowering it on his/her own.

In my mind that would work different muscles, but I don't know. Can anyone tell me if this is, in fact, a proven or effective method?

--------------------------------------

Also, my friends want me to come work out in the morning as well. They, essentially, do a burn out set of push ups, sit ups, and dips. Essentially an aerobic work out with very little muscle building and a lot of fat burn. They do this MWF.

I still want to stay on my current workout plan which is a rotation where I lift every night (Shoulders and Back, Legs, Chest, etc...). Would doing both of these plans be detrimental to me in any way?

Thanks,
-Kevin

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
After lifting on my normal program with my buddies the other day, they mentioned doing negatives for adding bulk.

By negatives, they said putting on more weight than normal and, for instance, in a bench press, the spotter would help lift the bar and the person lifting would be responsible for lowering it on his/her own.

In my mind that would work different muscles, but I don't know. Can anyone tell me if this is, in fact, a proven or effective method?

If you google around, there are plenty of bodybuilding articles that swear that negative training produces superior hypertrophy, although during my brief search, I didn't see any actual study to indicate it's more effective than normal (positive) training. It does, of course, let you handle more weight and can probably function as a decent tool to change up your routine up and let you bust through some plateaus. However, as a long term training strategy, I'd doubt it's effectiveness. Also, as indicated in this article, negative training may to lead to more muscle soreness (which doesn't necessarily mean your workout was more effective, but does interfere with future workouts) and injuries (which is obviously a bad thing). So, user beware.

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Also, my friends want me to come work out in the morning as well. They, essentially, do a burn out set of push ups, sit ups, and dips. Essentially an aerobic work out with very little muscle building and a lot of fat burn. They do this MWF.

The idea that high rep bodyweight exercises somehow burn fat is a bunch of crap. Sure, they burn a few calories, but so does any exercise, and if that's your goal, doing some cardio will be a much more efficient way to accomplish it. Having said that, high rep sets can be useful. At the basic level, while high rep training has minimal effects on overall strength and muscle size, it will improve your muscular endurance, which can be useful in various sports & activities. And if the exercises are arranged in a high intensity metcon style workout (like the kind you see in Crossfit), then they can also improve your endurance, stamina, speed, etc.

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
I still want to stay on my current workout plan which is a rotation where I lift every night (Shoulders and Back, Legs, Chest, etc...). Would doing both of these plans be detrimental to me in any way?

Well, what are your goals? Are you just trying to add muscle mass? Get stronger? Lose weight? Improve your overall fitness? Training for a specific sport? Depending on what this "aerobic routine" actually looks like, it can certainly have some benefits. However, it could have a negative impact on your workouts. For one thing, it can obviously fatigue the muscles involved, so if they are used in your normal workout later in the day, you may not do as well. Moreover, doing more exercise than your CNS can recover from can lead to overtraining, which is never fun. Just how much your body can handle will depend on genetics, as well as your current routine. For example, do you workout every single day? Do you not have any rest days during the week? How much volume (sets, reps, weight) are you doing in each workout? How long have you been lifting?

 

[KingGheedora]

brikis, how many rest days do you take a week? Do you have some kind of mix of heavy on one type of workout for x amount of days (like cardio or sprinting type stuff), and then heavy on lifting for the other days, and then some days for rest? Right now I'm doing 2-4 days a week and I feel like I'm ready to increase since I'm not as sore after my workouts anymore, and practically have to force myself not to go to the gym sometimes even though I really want to. I want to eventually go up to 4-6 days a week.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
After lifting on my normal program with my buddies the other day, they mentioned doing negatives for adding bulk.

By negatives, they said putting on more weight than normal and, for instance, in a bench press, the spotter would help lift the bar and the person lifting would be responsible for lowering it on his/her own.

In my mind that would work different muscles, but I don't know. Can anyone tell me if this is, in fact, a proven or effective method?

If you google around, there are plenty of bodybuilding articles that swear that negative training produces superior hypertrophy, although during my brief search, I didn't see any actual study to indicate it's more effective than normal (positive) training. It does, of course, let you handle more weight and can probably function as a decent tool to change up your routine up and let you bust through some plateaus. However, as a long term training strategy, I'd doubt it's effectiveness. Also, as indicated in this article, negative training may to lead to more muscle soreness (which doesn't necessarily mean your workout was more effective, but does interfere with future workouts) and injuries (which is obviously a bad thing). So, user beware.

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Also, my friends want me to come work out in the morning as well. They, essentially, do a burn out set of push ups, sit ups, and dips. Essentially an aerobic work out with very little muscle building and a lot of fat burn. They do this MWF.

The idea that high rep bodyweight exercises somehow burn fat is a bunch of crap. Sure, they burn a few calories, but so does any exercise, and if that's your goal, doing some cardio will be a much more efficient way to accomplish it. Having said that, high rep sets can be useful. At the basic level, while high rep training has minimal effects on overall strength and muscle size, it will improve your muscular endurance, which can be useful in various sports & activities. And if the exercises are arranged in a high intensity metcon style workout (like the kind you see in Crossfit), then they can also improve your endurance, stamina, speed, etc.

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
I still want to stay on my current workout plan which is a rotation where I lift every night (Shoulders and Back, Legs, Chest, etc...). Would doing both of these plans be detrimental to me in any way?

Well, what are your goals? Are you just trying to add muscle mass? Get stronger? Lose weight? Improve your overall fitness? Training for a specific sport? Depending on what this "aerobic routine" actually looks like, it can certainly have some benefits. However, it could have a negative impact on your workouts. For one thing, it can obviously fatigue the muscles involved, so if they are used in your normal workout later in the day, you may not do as well. Moreover, doing more exercise than your CNS can recover from can lead to overtraining, which is never fun. Just how much your body can handle will depend on genetics, as well as your current routine. For example, do you workout every single day? Do you not have any rest days during the week? How much volume (sets, reps, weight) are you doing in each workout? How long have you been lifting?

I'm 20 and have lifted since 7th grade when I started wrestling. Additionally, I played Baseball, Track, Cross Country, and Swimming- so I have always been in great athletic shape. Obviously I took time off in big chunks here and there, but over the past 3 months I have been pretty consistent in trying to add bulk.

I work out individual muscle groups each day (Triceps and Back combine for obvious reasons - Chest and Abs etc...).

Typically I do 3x sets with 8-10 reps each with increasing weight each set (Abs and obliques typically get 20 reps). Also we typically do about 6-8 different lifts each time.

At the end of each work out we do a burn out to end. For instance, if we do back and triceps then we close with wide body pull ups and dips until we can't do anymore.

I typically have 1 rest day during the week - sometimes 2 depending on the work load the engineering department drops on me that particular week.

As for any supplements, I take 25g of Whey Protein in a large glass of 2% milk after each workout. I also take 5g of creatine after every work out. I don't take multi-vitamins, but have heard that it wouldn't be a bad idea.

-Kevin

 

[KoolDrew]

As brikis mentioned, doing negatives will increase DOMS significantly, which is part of the reason why people think they are so effective. What they fail to realize is that soreness has very little to do with how effective the workout is. The #1 method for adding bulk is getting stronger. As simple as it sounds, the routine that results in the most significant strength gains will also result in the most significant size gains (given extra calories are there). If you're not getting stronger, things need to be adjusted.

The idea that high rep bodyweight exercises somehow burn fat is a bunch of crap.

Glycogen depletion (which is a result of high rep work) will increase fat oxidation. However, it does very little for maintaining LBM which is why heavy lifting should be emphasized.

I work out individual muscle groups each day (Triceps and Back combine for obvious reasons - Chest and Abs etc...).

Bodypart splits are a very ineffective way to train. I would suggest cutting back training to 4x a week, with 2 upper body sessions and 2 lower body sessions. A push/pull/leg split isn't a bad idea and neither is a full body workout. If you want to see results you need to be training muscle groups more than once a week though.

Typically I do 3x sets with 8-10 reps each with increasing weight each set (Abs and obliques typically get 20 reps). Also we typically do about 6-8 different lifts each time.

The abdominals and obliques should be treated just like every other muscle, lower reps and heavy weight. You would likely get better results by doing straight sets as opposed to ascending to a single heavy set as well, especially when training muscle groups so infrequently. You also don't need 6-8 movements for every muscle group.

 

[bossman34]

Glycogen depletion (which is a result of high rep work) will increase fat oxidation. However, it does very little for maintaining LBM which is why heavy lifting should be emphasized.

This is true, but it's gonna take a looong workout before your body actually has to resort to fat oxidation for energy especially for an anaerobic activity.

Bodypart splits are a very ineffective way to train. I would suggest cutting back training to 4x a week, with 2 upper body sessions and 2 lower body sessions. A push/pull/leg split isn't a bad idea and neither is a full body workout. If you want to see results you need to be training muscle groups more than once a week though.

I agree. I love the 2 upper body/2 lower body split. I like to go heavy (4-6 reps) for two of the days and light (8-12 reps) for the other two days. This is great for strength and hypertrophy.

If you truly want to bulk, though, you have to get enough calories. The whey protein shake and creatine are good and all, but only a small part of the picture. How many calories are you getting on a daily basis? How much protein, carbs, fats? If you don't eat enough (of the right stuff) you won't gain muscle no matter how hard you work.

How much do you weight now and what weight are you aiming for?

 

[Gamingphreek]

I thought specificity was preferred in workout sets though. The 2x Upper Body, 2x Lower Body don't really cater to that principle.

The only reason we do higher rep on abs is because generally burning fat around the mid-section is preferred over bulking.

Doing a set for a muscle at 100, and then 120 the next set, and then 140 the next set is not as good as doing 120 for all 3? I was under the impression that an ascending set will be more beneficial as you reach a higher weight at the end.

Right now I am 5'8" and change, and about 155lbs. I would like to reach somewhere in the 165-170 range.

My diet is probably not balanced enough yet, but I am trying to find things to eat and track it on FitDay. Campus food - even at the #1 dining center group in the US is tough to find a good variety of food.

-Kevin

 

[bossman34]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
I thought specificity was preferred in workout sets though. The 2x Upper Body, 2x Lower Body don't really cater to that principle.

You will be hitting every major muscle group multiple times with the 2x routine. You're really wasting time by spending half of your workout working on your biceps...they are (relatively) small muscles which are worked during compound movements such as pull ups, etc. You're not going to add a ton of mass by focusing so much time on small muscles (not that having nice looking biceps is bad).

The only reason we do higher rep on abs is because generally burning fat around the mid-section is preferred over bulking.

You CANNOT spot reduce. You can't do 1000 situps and expect to lose more fat around the midsection. Losing fat anywhere involves being in a calorie deficit so your body is forced into using your fat stores which will result in the loss of body fat. Where the fat comes off first really depends on the individual. Unfortunately, for males the last and toughest spot to remove fat from is usually the midsection.

You need to decide if you want to bulk up (requires calorie surplus) or lose body fat (requires calorie deficit). You really can't do both at the same time.

Doing a set for a muscle at 100, and then 120 the next set, and then 140 the next set is not as good as doing 120 for all 3? I was under the impression that an ascending set will be more beneficial as you reach a higher weight at the end.

Both methods will work to a certain extent. There are numerous programs out there and there is more than one right way to get it done. Generally speaking, to build muscle (hypertrophy) 6-12 reps with about 60 seconds rest between sets is recommended. For maximal strength, 4-6 reps with 2-5 minutes of rest is recommended. Of course, you can get stronger with a hypertrophy type program and you can bulk up during a strength type program.

The mistake most people make is that they stick with the same program for way too long. Just because it worked for you in the beginning does not mean it will continue to work to the same extent forever. You need to change/vary your program occasionally (every 6-12 weeks depending on progression, what you read).

Right now I am 5'8" and change, and about 155lbs. I would like to reach somewhere in the 165-170 range.

My diet is probably not balanced enough yet, but I am trying to find things to eat and track it on FitDay. Campus food - even at the #1 dining center group in the US is tough to find a good variety of food.

I hear the campus food excuse a lot and while, yes, options are limited you can still make due. I was in college at one point and didn't have a problem finding healthy choices. If you eat at the so-called "#1 dining center" in the US, I would imagine that you have plenty of choices. Do some research and figure out what is best for you.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: KingGheedora
brikis, how many rest days do you take a week? Do you have some kind of mix of heavy on one type of workout for x amount of days (like cardio or sprinting type stuff), and then heavy on lifting for the other days, and then some days for rest? Right now I'm doing 2-4 days a week and I feel like I'm ready to increase since I'm not as sore after my workouts anymore, and practically have to force myself not to go to the gym sometimes even though I really want to. I want to eventually go up to 4-6 days a week.

I post my workouts every day in my Journal. I do Crossfit and for the most part just follow the workouts from Crossfit's mainsite. However, I lag behind by about a month or two so I can arrange the workouts better in my schedule. I do a 3 on, 1 off, 2 on, 1 off schedule - that is, 2 rest days per week. I go to a different gym on the weekends than the weekdays, and depending on the equipment in each gym, I have to place certain workouts on certain days. The only other change I make is that I usually extend the "max effort" workouts with extra strength elements. For example, if the workout was "Squat 3x5", I'd actually do "Squat 3x5, OH Press 3x5, Deadlift 1x5".


EDIT ---> forgot to mention, soreness is NOT a good indicator of progress. Just because you aren't sore does NOT mean your routine isn't working and that you need to add more. In fact, as you train more, soreness almost always decreases, even though you continue to improve. In fact, your best indicator of how effective your workouts are is actually the progress you're making. If your strength, speed, endurance, etc are all improving at a reasonable rate, then your routine is obviously working. If they aren't, then you may need a change. Just remember that rest is important, and if you don't get enough, you'll actually slow your own progress and perhaps even overtrain.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
I'm 20 and have lifted since 7th grade when I started wrestling. Additionally, I played Baseball, Track, Cross Country, and Swimming- so I have always been in great athletic shape. Obviously I took time off in big chunks here and there, but over the past 3 months I have been pretty consistent in trying to add bulk.

I work out individual muscle groups each day (Triceps and Back combine for obvious reasons - Chest and Abs etc...).

Typically I do 3x sets with 8-10 reps each with increasing weight each set (Abs and obliques typically get 20 reps). Also we typically do about 6-8 different lifts each time.

At the end of each work out we do a burn out to end. For instance, if we do back and triceps then we close with wide body pull ups and dips until we can't do anymore.

I typically have 1 rest day during the week - sometimes 2 depending on the work load the engineering department drops on me that particular week.

As for any supplements, I take 25g of Whey Protein in a large glass of 2% milk after each workout. I also take 5g of creatine after every work out. I don't take multi-vitamins, but have heard that it wouldn't be a bad idea.

-Kevin

Ok, you still didn't really tell me what your goals and priorities are. Is your main goal to just increase muscle mass/size (hypertrophy)? That is, are you just working out for aesthetic purposes? There's nothing wrong with that as a goal, but it'll help us to know as a routine focused on hypertrophy will often be different than a routine focused on strength or improving performance at some sport/activity. Obviously, there is overlap between the two, but different goals often require different approaches. The only exception is for "beginners" - in that case, the best choice is typically a strength training routine, as strength gains for beginners will produce hypertrophy very effectively without any hypertrophy specific work. Oh, and the definition of "beginner" in this context is not really tied to how many years you've been lifting. It has more to do with whether you can still make linear progress - that is, add weight to the major lifts just about every single workout - or if you are far enough in training where you can only add weight to a lift every week (or more). It also has a little to do with how much weight you're lifting, especially on the squat & deadlift (see the performance standards), but really, if you can still make linear progress, you'd be wasting your time with any routine that doesn't take advantage of that.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
I thought specificity was preferred in workout sets though. The 2x Upper Body, 2x Lower Body don't really cater to that principle.

If you are still relatively new to weightlifting and don't have a lot of muscle mass on your body, your time is usually best spent on heavy compound free weight lifts such as the squat, deadlift, OH press, bench and power clean. Because these lifts involve a lot of muscles at the same time and allow you to use very heavy weights, they tend to produce the greatest amounts of muscle growth in the novice. Once you have a large base of muscle, you may then need to do isolation work on top of these compound movements, especially if you're trying to achieve some particular aesthetic look. Doing it in the other order - that is, working individual body parts with isolation exercises early in your training - tends to be far less effective.

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
The only reason we do higher rep on abs is because generally burning fat around the mid-section is preferred over bulking.

Please understand this: higher rep training does NOT lead to greater fat burning in the area you are training. It will NOT help make your abs more visible. The ONLY thing doing high rep training like this will accomplish is to increase the muscular endurance of your abs. This can certainly be useful in some sports/activities, but I doubt that's your intention.

 

[KoolDrew]

This is true, but it's gonna take a looong workout before your body actually has to resort to fat oxidation for energy especially for an anaerobic activity.

I'm not talking about fat oxidation during the workout. I was referring to after. However, this is irrelevant in most cases so I don't want to get into details in this topic. Often times I would begin a low-carb diet phase with a depletion workout to increase fat oxidation; however, this is with a specific diet and specific goals. Most people simply don't need to worry about it.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
I'm 20 and have lifted since 7th grade when I started wrestling. Additionally, I played Baseball, Track, Cross Country, and Swimming- so I have always been in great athletic shape. Obviously I took time off in big chunks here and there, but over the past 3 months I have been pretty consistent in trying to add bulk.

I work out individual muscle groups each day (Triceps and Back combine for obvious reasons - Chest and Abs etc...).

Typically I do 3x sets with 8-10 reps each with increasing weight each set (Abs and obliques typically get 20 reps). Also we typically do about 6-8 different lifts each time.

At the end of each work out we do a burn out to end. For instance, if we do back and triceps then we close with wide body pull ups and dips until we can't do anymore.

I typically have 1 rest day during the week - sometimes 2 depending on the work load the engineering department drops on me that particular week.

As for any supplements, I take 25g of Whey Protein in a large glass of 2% milk after each workout. I also take 5g of creatine after every work out. I don't take multi-vitamins, but have heard that it wouldn't be a bad idea.

-Kevin

Ok, you still didn't really tell me what your goals and priorities are. Is your main goal to just increase muscle mass/size (hypertrophy)? That is, are you just working out for aesthetic purposes? There's nothing wrong with that as a goal, but it'll help us to know as a routine focused on hypertrophy will often be different than a routine focused on strength or improving performance at some sport/activity. Obviously, there is overlap between the two, but different goals often require different approaches. The only exception is for "beginners" - in that case, the best choice is typically a strength training routine, as strength gains for beginners will produce hypertrophy very effectively without any hypertrophy specific work. Oh, and the definition of "beginner" in this context is not really tied to how many years you've been lifting. It has more to do with whether you can still make linear progress - that is, add weight to the major lifts just about every single workout - or if you are far enough in training where you can only add weight to a lift every week (or more). It also has a little to do with how much weight you're lifting, especially on the squat & deadlift (see the performance standards), but really, if you can still make linear progress, you'd be wasting your time with any routine that doesn't take advantage of that.

I apologize - I am going for increase in muscle mass/size. I don't have much fat on my body right now, but I do have a very good base of muscle from prior sports/lifting.

I am not training for any particular sport (For instance in baseball, as a pitcher, muscular endurance was the primary goal) - merely lifting for hypertrophy now.

I hear the campus food excuse a lot and while, yes, options are limited you can still make due. I was in college at one point and didn't have a problem finding healthy choices. If you eat at the so-called "#1 dining center" in the US, I would imagine that you have plenty of choices. Do some research and figure out what is best for you.

I didn't mean for it to come off as an excuse. I can absolutely find things to eat- I just have trouble, sometimes, varying the meals. (ie: As good as Tuna is, I have to find other things here and there every day).

I can tell your right now that I absolutely do not have a linear progress anymore. I hit a wall senior year of high school and got slightly discouraged. Freshman year of college I was training for track (distance running) as I was aggravated that I didn't notice the large gains that were present all through high school and middle school.

Here I am in the second semester of my Junior year where I know what it takes to get it done and with a greater work ethic. I have a lot more determination (as well as knowledge) to get through the plateau's in my lifting programs.

-Kevin

(Edit: I am not sure what I was thinking when I made the claim about fat burning around the mid section. If I stopped typing for a second, and thought to myself - I probably wouldn't have looked like an idiot right there )

 

[KoolDrew]

This is a good read by Kelly Baggett and I suggest you read it:
http://www.higher-faster-sport...rainingphilosophy.html

Also, Lyles "secrets" to mass gains...

1. If you are natural, you must get stronger to get bigger. If, over time, you are not adding weight to the bar, you are not growing.

2. Training a bodypart less than 2X/week will not give you optimal gains. An upper/lower split done Mon/Tue/Thu/Fri is close to optimal for most. Full body twice a week can work very well. Once every 5th day is the least frequently I would ever recommend a natural train. You?ll get less sore training more frequently and you?ll grow better. Save once/week bodypart training for pro bodybuilders (read: steroid users) and the genetically elite.

3. When in doubt, do less volume, not more. You don?t need a zillion sets to stimulate hypertrophy, the bull[*#$&*#!] written in the magazines to the contrary. If you can?t get it done in 4-8 hard sets (sometimes less, rarely more) you need to quit training like a pussy in the gym. I had a friend who sold supplements one time who kept asking me to design him a product that would really work. I told him to make a supplement that would make people work hard in the gym and watch their diets. He thought I was joking.

4. Generally, basic compound exercises are best but isolation stuff has its place. Same for the machines versus free weights ?argument?: both have their place. Anybody who tell you that you MUST do a certain exercise is arguing from an emotional stance, not a physiological one.

5. If you think you can gain muscle without eating sufficient food or calories, you should quit bodybuilding and take up something easier, like golf. You can?t magically make muscle out of nothing, you need calories and protein to grow. If you can?t buckle down to eat enough on a consistent basis, you won?t grow an ounce of muscle. And spare me the excuses that you?re not hungry or your schedule won?t allow it. It?s about priorities, eat more or stay skinny.

6. Most hardgainers train like idiots and don?t eat enough.

7. Diets should be based around whole foods first, supplements second. Remember the hoopla over zinc and testosterone and ZMA from Balco (hi Victor, hope you?re enjoying the forced sodomy in jail)? Red meat is a great source of zinc, iron, B12 and protein. Not to mention who knows how many other trace nutrients that are involved in optimal human physiology. Eat it every day. Remember all of that crap about indole 3 carbinole. Guess what, it?s found in cruciferous vegetables like broccoli and cauliflower. Every time you hear about a new magic compound, 99 times out of 100 it?s found in some whole food that you?re probably not eating. Eat whole foods with a [*#$&*#!]pile of veggies every day.

8. There is no singular best protein, each one has pros and cons. Generally, I thinnk casein is better for dieting, whey for around workouts, whole proteins the rest of the time. You can?t beat milk (and the dairy calcium has benefits on bodyfat). I think mixing proteins at a given meal is a good idea to eliminte any shortcomings of one. I think food combining (or protein rotation) is a lot of hippy holistic bull[*#$&*#!]

http://www.bodyrecomposition.c.../training-secrets.html

You really need to get your routine in order as well as your diet.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
I apologize - I am going for increase in muscle mass/size. I don't have much fat on my body right now, but I do have a very good base of muscle from prior sports/lifting.

I am not training for any particular sport (For instance in baseball, as a pitcher, muscular endurance was the primary goal) - merely lifting for hypertrophy now.

...


I can tell your right now that I absolutely do not have a linear progress anymore. I hit a wall senior year of high school and got slightly discouraged. Freshman year of college I was training for track (distance running) as I was aggravated that I didn't notice the large gains that were present all through high school and middle school.

Here I am in the second semester of my Junior year where I know what it takes to get it done and with a greater work ethic. I have a lot more determination (as well as knowledge) to get through the plateau's in my lifting programs.

Ok, so putting this together, it sounds like you need an intermediate (or possibly advanced) routine aimed at hypertrophy. KoolDrew's post is a pretty damn good one. The routine should train each bodypart at least a couple times per week, should primarily be based in compound exercises (and supplemented with isolation work as necessary), should focus on heavy weights and limited volume, and you'll need a proper diet to match. Keeping in mind Lyle's point that there's no exercise you "must" do, I'd say that heavy squats are one of the most effective ways to help add mass, so the routine should probably contain a healthy dose of them. A good amount of deadlifting will also help a lot, but don't overdo it, as the lower back tends to recover slower than other parts of the body. (You can read a little about the hormonal effects of squats & deadlifts here). With that in mind, here are a few programs you could look into:

Push/Pull Splits, Upper/Lower Splits: you do 4 workouts per week - upper push, upper pull, lower push, lower pull - with just 3-4 exercises per workout. It's a great way to work each muscle group multiple times per week. It also does a great job of balancing your routine so it's not as upper body dominant as so many BB routines are - ie, most 4 day splits give only one day to your legs, but 3 to your upper body. Since the biggest muscles in your body are in the legs, and training them (via squats/deadlifts) produces some of the biggest hormonal effects, doing more leg work will typically produce better results over your entire body.

Bill Starr 5x5: this is a routine designed for strength, rather than size, but with the proper diet, I found that this 5x5 routine will pack on the pounds *quickly*. Like most strength routines, it's based around the squat, and is built for intermediates to make weekly progress on their lifts. When I did this routine a few months back, as the numbers on all my lifts flew upwards (added ~50lbs to my squat & bench, ~80lbs to my DL in just a few months), my bodyweight climbed very easily too (added ~25lbs in the same few months). It also allows some assistance exercises at the end of each workout if you want to add in some isolation work.

Hypertrophy Specific Training (HST): a routine built specifically to maximize hypertrophy. Typically involves 3 full body workouts per week with very limited sets/reps on each one. I've read some good things about this online and a buddy of mine used it pretty successfully this past year.

20 Rep Squats: this is a routine you'd only do for a short time, with the entire goal being to add mass. It involves doing a full body routine each workout, 2-3 workouts per week, for 6-8 weeks. The trick is that the routine includes 1 set of squats, done for 20 reps, using a weight that is normally your 10 rep max. This single set can last a good 3 minutes and is absolutely brutal. However, if you can get through it, it's supposed to be a terrific way to pack on mass in a hurry. Once you're done, move on to one of the other routines.

 

[KoolDrew]

20 Rep Squats: this is a routine you'd only do for a short time, with the entire goal being to add mass. It involves doing a full body routine each workout, 2-3 workouts per week, for 6-8 weeks. The trick is that the routine includes 1 set of squats, done for 20 reps, using a weight that is normally your 10 rep max. This single set can last a good 3 minutes and is absolutely brutal. However, if you can get through it, it's supposed to be a terrific way to pack on mass in a hurry. Once you're done, move on to one of the other routines.

I so want to do this. Hopefully my gym doesn't mind me bringing a bucket to puke in though.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: KoolDrew

20 Rep Squats: this is a routine you'd only do for a short time, with the entire goal being to add mass. It involves doing a full body routine each workout, 2-3 workouts per week, for 6-8 weeks. The trick is that the routine includes 1 set of squats, done for 20 reps, using a weight that is normally your 10 rep max. This single set can last a good 3 minutes and is absolutely brutal. However, if you can get through it, it's supposed to be a terrific way to pack on mass in a hurry. Once you're done, move on to one of the other routines.

I so want to do this. Hopefully my gym doesn't mind me bringing a bucket to puke in though.

Heh, I've been tempted to try it myself. I think the next time my back squat stalls, I'll give it a shot as a plateau buster and see if I have the balls to carry it all the way through.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: KoolDrew

20 Rep Squats: this is a routine you'd only do for a short time, with the entire goal being to add mass. It involves doing a full body routine each workout, 2-3 workouts per week, for 6-8 weeks. The trick is that the routine includes 1 set of squats, done for 20 reps, using a weight that is normally your 10 rep max. This single set can last a good 3 minutes and is absolutely brutal. However, if you can get through it, it's supposed to be a terrific way to pack on mass in a hurry. Once you're done, move on to one of the other routines.

I so want to do this. Hopefully my gym doesn't mind me bringing a bucket to puke in though.

Heh, I've been tempted to try it myself. I think the next time my back squat stalls, I'll give it a shot as a plateau buster and see if I have the balls to carry it all the way through.

Ugh, seriously? 10RM for 20 reps? This sounds horrendously painful. I've nearly passed out on a 5RM...

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: KoolDrew

20 Rep Squats: this is a routine you'd only do for a short time, with the entire goal being to add mass. It involves doing a full body routine each workout, 2-3 workouts per week, for 6-8 weeks. The trick is that the routine includes 1 set of squats, done for 20 reps, using a weight that is normally your 10 rep max. This single set can last a good 3 minutes and is absolutely brutal. However, if you can get through it, it's supposed to be a terrific way to pack on mass in a hurry. Once you're done, move on to one of the other routines.

I so want to do this. Hopefully my gym doesn't mind me bringing a bucket to puke in though.

Heh, I've been tempted to try it myself. I think the next time my back squat stalls, I'll give it a shot as a plateau buster and see if I have the balls to carry it all the way through.

Ugh, seriously? 10RM for 20 reps? This sounds horrendously painful.

That would be the point

Mark Rippetoe says, "Trust me, if you do an honest 20 rep program, at some point Jesus will talk to you. On the last day of the program, he asked if he could work in."

In all seriousness though, it's a brutally tough program, but supposedly one of the absolute most effective ways to add mass quickly. If you can get through it, I'd also bet it also does wonders for your mental toughness, lactate threshold and a whole lot more. I would think that the hormonal effects from such strenuous squatting must be enormous and if you mix it with something like GOMAD, you could really pack on some muscle in a hurry. However, the body and mind can only tolerate such stress for short periods of time, which is why this program is only recommended for 6-8 weeks max (and I'd bet many people give up long before that). And you gotta love the video of Jesse Marunde squatting 407x20 (1:15 into the video).