A Muslim's perspective

routan

Senior member
Sep 12, 2010
837
0
0
Yes, this is my first post, and undoubtedly I will get thrashed for it as is the custom of AT Users. I have been a long time lurker, and there is every chance this post is going to get me banned straight up.

It is also a post about the current political discussions around Islam. There are a limited number of Muslims on the board and more often than not, they are always pushed to the defensive with quite indecent (to say the least) attacks.

I am a regular visitor to the so called Ground Zero mosque. I pray there. I have been praying there for over 9 months now. This media frenzy only started 2/3 months ago. The reason why Americans are against it is beyond me. Here are oft-stated talking points.

If I as an American have the right to religious freedom, whats wrong with this mosque/community center?

The building of the mosque so close to the Twin Towers is insensitive to the deaths of fellow Americans. How so? I am as much responsible as you are. America failed to prevent the terrorists from learning how to fly, passing through the security checks, boarding the plane and stopping the planes once it was learnt they were hijacked.

If your reasonings are that just because of my faith, I am somewhat responsible, that is not even sound reasoning.

To be sensitive to the general American perception is taking responsibility of the tragedy. I am NOT responsible, and no one should shove that responsibility on me.

The criticisms have also warped into the finances of the construction of the mosque. The congregation of the mosque donates siginificantly towards the construction. Additionally, a large amount of financing will come through allied commercial endeavors. Yes, non-US related funding may also be a part, but so what? Our entire country in large parts is funded by China; communist China, once a hated ideology in American mindset. Until there is evidence of bad people funding the mosque, this is a moot point.

Another criticism has been towards Imam Faisal. One can debate on and off about his past comments. There is no point in speaking to his defense. He is an American who has been soundly recognized and commended by the elected government of my country, this country.

A vast majority of you sit and comment on the forums after reading biased news outlets, while the ground perspectives of those who actually visit the mosque is never highlighted.

As a Muslim, I am saddened by the support of burning of the Quran. Why would you support that? I hold immense respect for the Holy Book. Reasonable people were against the burning of crosses by the KKK, were you not? Of course you have the freedom to do so, there is no doubt. But does that freedom grant you to inflame another community that is as American as you are?

In essence, you are purposefully supporting the targetting of the Muslim community, putting us in conflict with you, forcing a distinction between Americans and Muslims. There is no difference. I came to America to enjoy the freedoms this country provides, which are absent in the eastern half of the world. I didnt come here to be a target of your hate. I could face that in my home country. There are other Muslims, born and raised here, went to school and universities with fellow Americans. Are we that different that you choose to support this directed targetting?

America has had history of bad behavior towards a group of people, be it African Americans, Orientals (during WW2), perceived Communists and so on. I urge every one here to not let history repeat itself.
 
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child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,307
175
106
Welcome to Anandtech. The people you're directing your post to will respond shortly. Most of them should be in church right now.
 

routan

Senior member
Sep 12, 2010
837
0
0
Welcome to Anandtech. The people you're directing your post to will respond shortly. Most of them should be in church right now.

Thank you. I hope there will be reasonable responses and some form of attitude changes, rather than the common "you sick f**k" replies.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,158
6
81
What is your view on honor killings? Do you support Hamas?


BTW I am against the burning of the Koran, its tacky
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Thank you. I hope there will be reasonable responses and some form of attitude changes, rather than the common "you sick f**k" replies.

Doubtful. As you said, every religion and race has gone through this, only to be eventually accepted.

America has actually been in reverse for a decade or so. Religious fervor has increased. You can see this in Texas where Thomas Jefferson's role as the author of the Declaration of Independence has effectively been erased, merely because he wasn't "christian" enough.

Throughout this country's past it was black people. In the 1800s it was the Irish, Indians and Chinese. In the 1900s it was Jewish people (MS St. Louis where 270 out of 900 Jews were later killed in concentration camps). In the 1940s it was the Japanese (don't call them oriental) when we thought every one of them was a spy. In the 1960s America was scared shitless that a Catholic would be President, as then he would be "controlled" by the Vatican.

Now it's Muslim people.

You need to become stronger because of this, not bitter.

To quote Churchill: "Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing...after they have exhausted all other possibilities."
 

routan

Senior member
Sep 12, 2010
837
0
0
What is your view on honor killings? Do you support Hamas?


BTW I am against the burning of the Koran, its tacky

I am glad to respond to your questions, as this thread is about a Muslim's perspective.

Honor killings is an unfortunate (and sick) tradition practiced in certain parts of the world. It is NOT an Islamic teaching, tradition or custom in any manner. Honor killings are practiced signicantly in the Indian sub-continent and it part of the culture and traditions of that region.

To be honest, I have no support or no non-support for Hamas. They are not representative of Islam. As a political party, I wish them success in their political endeavors, making life better for Palestinians and contributing to peace in the Middle East. Being noted as a terrorist organization by many governments, I hope they take a chapter out of IRA's book and cease activities that result in deaths of innocent people.
 

tinker2141

Previously Banned Chickenshit Jackass
Sep 10, 2010
113
0
0
I was all for the Koran burning. Americans should not be afraid to exercise the right to free speech. Islam needs to be silenced in the same manner as every other religion. You should receive zero preferential treatment. This is what is pissing everyone off. You’re so called entitlement to tolerance. No other religion enjoys it. Then again no other religion uses suicide bombings as intimidation tactics.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,158
6
81
I am glad to respond to your questions, as this thread is about a Muslim's perspective.

Honor killings is an unfortunate (and sick) tradition practiced in certain parts of the world. It is NOT an Islamic teaching, tradition or custom in any manner. Honor killings are practiced signicantly in the Indian sub-continent and it part of the culture and traditions of that region.

To be honest, I have no support or no non-support for Hamas. They are not representative of Islam. As a political party, I wish them success in their political endeavors, making life better for Palestinians and contributing to peace in the Middle East. Being noted as a terrorist organization by many governments, I hope they take a chapter out of IRA's book and cease activities that result in deaths of innocent people.


Props for answering my questions
 

routan

Senior member
Sep 12, 2010
837
0
0
I was all for the Koran burning. Americans should not be afraid to exercise the right to free speech. Islam needs to be silenced in the same manner as every other religion. You should receive zero preferential treatment. This is what is pissing everyone off. You’re so called entitlement to tolerance. No other religion enjoys it. Then again no other religion uses suicide bombings as intimidation tactics.

So for example, in your opinion, there should be no such thing as anti-Semitic speech?

Quran burning is not an issue of a right to free speech or prefential treatment. It is an issue about human decency to act in respectful manner.

Do you see Muslims in America running around giving hate speeches about subjects contrary to their beliefs? They do have the right to do so, but they have the decency to not do so.

Again, Islam as a religion does not use suicide bombings as intimidation tactics.

I can safely say this is an textbook example of an unreasonable mindset. It usually comes from playing too many video games and not going partaking in good education.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
I was all for the Koran burning. Americans should not be afraid to exercise the right to free speech. Islam needs to be silenced in the same manner as every other religion. You should receive zero preferential treatment. This is what is pissing everyone off. You’re so called entitlement to tolerance. No other religion enjoys it. Then again no other religion uses suicide bombings as intimidation tactics.

Other religions may not use suicide bombers, but they do cause violence.

What about abortion clinic bombings?

What about black church burnings?

What about the recent attempted Mosque bombing?

I mean, come on. EVERY religion has their extremists.

Islam doesn't enjoy any protected status. However, if you do something to piss somebody off you can't expect them to sit by and take it. You cannot be ignorant to their own side nor the reaction that your actions will create.

Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD.
 
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tinker2141

Previously Banned Chickenshit Jackass
Sep 10, 2010
113
0
0
So for example, in your opinion, there should be no such thing as anti-Semitic speech?

Quran burning is not an issue of a right to free speech or prefential treatment. It is an issue about human decency to act in respectful manner.

Do you see Muslims in America running around giving hate speeches about subjects contrary to their beliefs? They do have the right to do so, but they have the decency to not do so.

Again, Islam as a religion does not use suicide bombings as intimidation tactics.

I can safely say this is an textbook example of an unreasonable mindset. It usually comes from playing too many video games and not going partaking in good education.

Speech is speech. It is not outlawed. I was happy the man stood up to a bunch of thugs who wrap themselves in the cloak of archaic beliefs. They expect us to simply except them. Sorry this is America, we have no such responsibility.

Bull shit. Muslims all around this country demand preferential treatment. Please they leave the child like tantrums to those living in repressive third world hell holes to do the flag burning and death to America chanting. I am sick of the Muslim cry for equality. I could give a shit about any religion. Sit in the corner and pray to your god but stop thinking we should respect it or you for any reason.

Fine Islam does not use suicide tactic, People of an Islamic faith use suicide tactics to intimidate, suppress and subjugate those they could no other wise stand against.

Nice insult at the end there. You don’t know me from Adam. I have spent plenty of time in the Middle East. I have studied the culture, Govt. and theocracies. Don’t shine me on with the peaceful intentions speeches. This is a radical religion that has no place in the leadership of any people. Just like Christianity it must be cut out of society and marginalized to allow open minded free people to exercise the right to choose. Islam wants a boot on their throat.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Welcome routan! No one will ban you as long as you adhere to the standards of the forum which I lament are abismal.
 

routan

Senior member
Sep 12, 2010
837
0
0
Speech is speech. It is not outlawed. I was happy the man stood up to a bunch of thugs who wrap themselves in the cloak of archaic beliefs. They expect us to simply except them. Sorry this is America, we have no such responsibility.

Bull shit. Muslims all around this country demand preferential treatment. Please they leave the child like tantrums to those living in repressive third world hell holes to do the flag burning and death to America chanting. I am sick of the Muslim cry for equality. I could give a shit about any religion. Sit in the corner and pray to your god but stop thinking we should respect it or you for any reason.

Fine Islam does not use suicide tactic, People of an Islamic faith use suicide tactics to intimidate, suppress and subjugate those they could no other wise stand against.

Nice insult at the end there. You don’t know me from Adam. I have spent plenty of time in the Middle East. I have studied the culture, Govt. and theocracies. Don’t shine me on with the peaceful intentions speeches. This is a radical religion that has no place in the leadership of any people. Just like Christianity it must be cut out of society and marginalized to allow open minded free people to exercise the right to choose. Islam wants a boot on their throat.

Dont mean to be a grammar nazi, but the bolded part above sort of went towards my last comment.

Because you spent plenty of time in the Middle East does not make you an expert in the culture, and it definitely does not make you an expert in the religion. Please note that I was born into the religion, and into the culture.

As you can clearly see, I am writing words on a forum. I am not threatening anyone, or running wildly around with a bomb strapped. SOME people (who are psychopaths and not Muslims) act in the manner you describe to intimidate people.

I dont know what preferential treatment you mean. I do ask Americans to be decent humans. If that is too much to ask for, it is a sad loss for mankind.
 

routan

Senior member
Sep 12, 2010
837
0
0
Welcome routan! No one will ban you as long as you adhere to the standards of the forum which I lament are abismal.

lol. I have read too many hate-filled members repeatedly post to agree with you. Thank you for welcoming me.

"Abysmal"
 

tinker2141

Previously Banned Chickenshit Jackass
Sep 10, 2010
113
0
0
Dont mean to be a grammar nazi, but the bolded part above sort of went towards my last comment.

Because you spent plenty of time in the Middle East does not make you an expert in the culture, and it definitely does not make you an expert in the religion. Please note that I was born into the religion, and into the culture.

As you can clearly see, I am writing words on a forum. I am not threatening anyone, or running wildly around with a bomb strapped. SOME people (who are psychopaths and not Muslims) act in the manner you describe to intimidate people.

I dont know what preferential treatment you mean. I do ask Americans to be decent humans. If that is too much to ask for, it is a sad loss for mankind.

Never claimed to be an expert. BTW correct my grammar it is a known deficiency and I am working on it. It’s appreciated. Hey not saying you are a bad person you actually seem reasonable enough.

The people I am describing claim to be Muslim when carrying out these acts. Either the people who do not support this are too scared to say anything, support it or simply do not care.

Anyone who criticizes Islam faces an incredible amount of flak if not outright death. You may not want the preferential treatment but many followers of Islam do. Example the cartoon of Mohammad. Plenty of silly examples of characters of Buda, Jesus and other deities mocked. We go after a figure in Islamic scripture and a shit storm erupts.

People burn bibles, torahs and flags all the time. Some guy burns a Koran and the world goes crazy. Why? Is it any more special than any other text? Absolutely not. Fanatics and intimidation is what created the stigma the world would end if we burned that book. That man may have symbolized more than any words ever could. You want us to accept and tolerate Islam. Then you and every other Muslim have the responsibility to put the radicals in check.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
BTW I'm one of the admins. We don't hate you, and it is we who hold the keys. Unfortunately we cannot guarantee the civility of others, but we can hope.
 

routan

Senior member
Sep 12, 2010
837
0
0
I agree with you OP and welcome to AT.

But I am torn apart when I see stuff like this:Radical Muslim Protesters Burn US Flag Outside Embassy in London


Muslims DEMAND respect under the penalty of death but are quite happy to disrespect others.

People are dying in Afghanistan today in protests of the book burning that never happened in the USA.

Thank you for the welcome.

The act of idiots in Britain is idiotic. There is no story related to the video. It is even sadder that this happened around Sept 11. I am not sure if this was related in response to the planned burning of the Quran, which may be taken as a mitigating factor; nonetheless, these guys probably have no jobs, no education, no money, not married (hence no sex) and so this is a result.

I would however like to say that JUST like how you are "torn apart", the burning of our Holy Scripture is many times over your feelings.

I am not responsible for these tens of idiots. I dont think this should be used as grounds for "Islam is bad" comments.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,302
144
106
I think all people need to be more tolerate of the ignorant.

The rest hopefully will just fall into place.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,302
144
106
I would however like to say that JUST like how you are "torn apart", the burning of our Holy Scripture is many times over your feelings.
I have a problem with that comment because that is being presumptuous with a touch of being "dismissive" towards others feelings

why do you presume to know that your suffering is more than the next person when it comes to these things?
 
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