A Muslim's perspective

[Infohawk]

lol. Yes Infohawk, I got owned. I will not take your bait. Good luck

If Islam teaches people to beat women, why would you want to be a part of it?

 

[routan]

Wow, this thread keeps going from bad to worse...

I'm staying out of this

Well said. It is my mistake to revisit after being done on advice of Hayabasu Rider.

I bid adieu

 

[Infohawk]

I bid adieu

Awwww bummer right before you were going to defend Islam for pushing wife-beating. Oh well, at least we learned that so called moderate Muslims will defend a country's right to blow up historical statues just because they belong to another religion.

 

[Freshgeardude]

You do realize that the mosque is called Park51, dont you?

You also do realize that the poll does not sample the ENTIRE US population? Anyways, my comment addressed the people on this forum.

I already addressed Imam Faisal in my original post.

I would invite you to visit Lower Manhattan. Its a small island. Park Place is 2 blocks away from WTC, Warren Street is 4 blocks away.

Also, I can attest from personal experience that Masjid Manhattan at Warren Street would get so crowded on Fridays, the street would be shut down to host Muslims praying on the street. Not that conspicuous I would think.

Lol now you try to deny the poll.


Yea you want to mount a fund to interview 310 million people? There is a reason why it is a poll of people around the country which represents the average for the country. so you want to deny a poll because it goes against what you believe in, so it is obviously false... Tolerance my asss hole
.

 

[JEDIYoda]

while many do support burning copies of Qur'an through largely false associations of the two

it doesn`t matter ewhy people want to burn the Qur`an......it doesn`t matter the curcumstances!
This is America they can burn the Qur`an if they so choose.
We can also disagree with the burning -- But they still have thge right to burn fror any reason they choose!

 

[JEDIYoda]

Is that a Koran I smell burning?

you did mean Qur`an correct??

 

[JEDIYoda]

I felt this post needed revisiting......


(Please that I have spoken out against burning the Koran)

Americans (and the Western world) are VERY upset at the destruction of the Twin Towers and murder of 3,000 people, not to mention the numerous other terroristic actions (London Bus/Subway bombing, Madrid train station bombing, etc. etc etc.), yet we are told and accept that that these acts do NOT represent the Arab or Muslim world in general; they were just 'nuts' or radicals.

So, we have some so-called pastor (not even a real one) and about 2 dozen people threatening to burn a Koran, how is it that the Arab/Muslim world apparently doesn't accept that these 'nuts' are NOT representative of America (or the Western world)? Is everyone over here burning a Koran? No, they're not, in fact most are speaking out against it.

So, why must we accept that acts of terorism are not representative of Arabs/Muslims, yet you guys do not have to accept that these people threatening to burn a Koran are not representative of us?

Why is it that you do not repect the feelings of some people who find it offensive to build a Mosque at the GZ site, yet you demand that everyone respect your feelings about burning a Koran?

Fern

 

[Eagle1969]

9: 5 (5). But when the forbidden months run out, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them,
Capture them, besiege, ambush against them in every stratagem place!

9: 29 (29). Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, does not prohibit the fact that
forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of truth - of those who sent down to writing,
yet they will not give ransom his own hand, being humiliated.

4: 78 (76). Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve, fight in the
taguta way. Fight the friends of Satan, because Satan's snares are weak!

47: 4-5 (4). And when you encounter those who do not have believed it - a blow with a sword on the neck;

3: 144 (151). We cast into the hearts of those who did not believe the horror of what they gave to God in
associating things which He had sent no authority. Asylum them - fire, and have a bad stay
wicked!

Quran.

 

[OCGuy]

^ Sounds peaceful to me!

 

[Infohawk]

^ Sounds peaceful to me!

Too bad routed couldn't edumacate us on the real meanings of those verses. I bet those verses really mean that Allah tolerates all religions.

 

[Cerb]

But because [Freshgeardude] called me a hypocrite, I would like to point out that the same people who call for being sensitive and relocating the mosque also wholeheartedly support buring of the Quran, with complete disrespect to the sensitivity of the Muslims. If I am a hypocrite, what term would fit these people?

You're being as bad as your detractors.

I think it's a bad idea to have the mosque there. The causal link of 9/11 to Islam may be false, but it's still pouring salt in a wound, to the masses. If it could be moved just a few blocks away, somehow, that would be a great way to start some good will. Remember: it's about public perception, not facts.

I think it's a bad idea to burn your book. It serves no purpose but to piss off Muslims, and is an expression of only hate (context is everything).

We're not all the same people.

 

[IGBT]

in islam it's a mans world.

 

[TechAZ]

lol. You respond to a post about honor killings with a quote from the Quran that says NOTHING about honor killings? You are a smart, smart person.

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2009/10/faleh_almaleki_runs_over_daugh.php

From about a year ago, here in Phoenix, AZ.

Don't play stupid and think just because something isn't explicitly stated in the Qu'ran, that MANY MANY clerics, or whatever the fuck they're called, don't interpret things however they see fit.

Fact is that your religion is about 1k years behind any others as far as being civilized and having some human rights. Who is to blame for this? The leaders of your religion, and leaders of Islamic countries. You have nutjobs who run the countries based on their interpretation of the religion....and since their interpretation means degrading women, hating the west, and putting religion ahead of the prosperity of the country, nothing advances.

You feel safe here in the US, I don't know many people who would go backpacking anywhere in a country that has a Muslim majority (besides maybe UAE). Does that tell you anything?

 

[Infohawk]

Who is to blame for this? The leaders of your religion, and leaders of Islamic countries.

Frankly I also blame blind followers like Routed. If they stood up for what was right the Koran would just be collecting dust in the Library of Congress, under the section "Ancient Nomadic Rituals."

But what do you expect, the word Muslim means "submitter"... As in one of the many who submitted to Muhammed's way under threat of decapitation.

 

[kylebisme]

it doesn`t matter ewhy people want to burn the Qur`an......it doesn`t matter the curcumstances!
This is America they can burn the Qur`an if they so choose.
We can also disagree with the burning -- But they still have thge right to burn fror any reason they choose!

Of course, assuming both private and public property rights are respected we are all free to burn anything we might like, and you are also free to agree with the burning of the Qur`an or the planned location of a mosque out of largely false associations between Islam and terrorism if like to. However, that doesn't make doing so out of mostly false associations between Islam and terrorism any less absurd, yet it is widespread, and these are disappointing circumstances for our nation to be in.

Too bad routed couldn't edumacate us on the real meanings of those verses. I bet those verses really mean that Allah tolerates all religions.

You could start educating yourself by looking up the verses Eagle's was supposedly quoting in actual English translations of Qur'an, unless you prefer to continue wallowing in ignorant bigotry.

 

[Infohawk]

You could start educating yourself by looking up the verses Eagle's was supposedly quoting in actual English translations of Qur'an, unless you prefer to continue wallowing in ignorant bigotry.

Honestly I'd prefer to hear you defend a thousand year old plus nomadic tribe's superstitions...

 

[hellotyler]

I'm sorry but people LOVE to hate other people, it brings us together. Last night I was at a party and for a solid 20 minutes all everyone would talk about is generalizing people from the east coast (they are all heartless bastards, they can't drive for jack, hateful stereotype after stereotype). When I brought up that it was kind of silly to generalize people like this, they probably say the same kind of stuff as us, immediately I was shot down.. I asked would you go so far as to generalize from race ? "Black people don't tip well!" was the resounding response. I don't know, these are all generally good friendly helpful people but for some reason you get them grouped up and the hate comes out. I don't know what the solution is, but I want you to know that we're not all hateful bigots ready to stereotype each and every person out there. Islam is as much a religion of hate as Christitianity. Another religion responsible for mass murder and torture in history. (Crusades anybody ? Salem witch trials ?) Religion is used too often to manipulate people to hate and kill each other for me to have any kind of support for it.

 

[kylebisme]

Honestly I'd prefer to hear you defend a thousand year old plus nomadic tribe's superstitions...

I'm not one to defend any superstitions, but if you'd prefer to cling to truncated and garbled nonsense I'll just leave you with that, as I'm not one to waste time attempting to dispel individuals of such blatantly willful ignorance either. However, if you care to quote verses from commonly accepted English translations of Qur'an, I'd be happy to discuss the facts.

 

[JSt0rm]

lol infohawk has been up in this thread for 15 hours. You cant manufacture hatred like that.

 

[L00PY]

If the mosque is not built to cater to that sensitivity, it goes on to show that the Muslim community is responsible for 9/11. Any reasonable person can note this.

So what has the muslim community in general done to rid itself of radicals. From the sideline it appears not much as those radicals are feared. IF there was real effort of the muslim community to police itself, there would not be much issue.

The Westboro Baptist Church's preaches that IEDs killing US soldiers are being sent from God because God hates fags. Any construction on Christian churches near military bases needs to be stopped immediately. So what has the Christian community in general done to rid itself of the radicals in the WBC? From the sideline it appears not much as those radicals are feared. IF there was real effort of the Christian community to police itself, there would not be much issue.

The intent of the mosque is absolutety not as a "Victory Mosque". I and every other Muslim member who visits that will (most hopefully) categorically deny that. That suggestion itself is ludicrous, because as Americans, there is nothing to feel victorious about.

That may not be its intent, but a lot people find it down right insulting. You can build it, but it does mean people have to like it or find it not offensive.

Building a church near a military base might not be intended to praise the teachings of the WBC, but a lot of people find it down right insulting. You can build it, but it does not mean people have to like it or might not find it offensive.

The analogy to the burning of the Quran is false. Burning the Quran is a direct affront to all Muslims. The building of the mosque is only an affront to those who hold - falsely - that Islam is responsible for 9/11.

Did you ever consider that a mosque on ground zero is direct affront to people of this country? And if Islam is not responsable, why were all the perps muslim? Why does the muslim community continue to allow these radicals to exist?

Did you ever consider that building a church near a military base is a direct affront to people of this country? If Christianity is not responsible, why were all the people protesting at military funerals Christian? Why does the Christian community continue to allow these radicals to exists?


If that doesn't drive my point home, here's another way of looking at things. Al-Qaeda follows Sunni Islam which happens to be the largest sect. The KKK follows Protestant Christianity which I believe is also the largest sect. Being Muslim doesn't make you a terrorist member of Al-Qaeda any more than being Protestant makes you a terrorist member of the KKK.

Al-Qaeda follows the Salafi version of Sunni Islam, a pretty severe version of Islam that perhaps advocates more violence than others. They are pushing for Sharia Law across all countries. People like those behind the Olympic Park bombing with ties to the Christian Identity follow a British-Israelism version of Christianity, a which have a pretty extreme version that perhaps advocates more violence than others. They believe that non-Caucasians have no souls and cannot earn God's favor. Being Muslim doesn't mean you want to see all women covered in head to toe any more than being Christian means you hate people with brown skin.

Oh, and the guy behind Park51? He's a Sufi Islamist, which is probably as close to Al-Qaeda's teachings as the Unitarian Church's is to the Vatican's. There is an extremely wide range of views within any religion with a billion plus adherents, whether it's Christianity or Islam. Trying to hold all for the actions of a tiny few is stupid.

 

[hellotyler]

9: 5 (5). But when the forbidden months run out, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them,
Capture them, besiege, ambush against them in every stratagem place!

...

Quran.

Numbers 31:17-18 (King James Version)

17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.


Kill everyone, but make sure to keep those sweet virgins for yourself. I'm sure they will happily give themselves to you after you just murdered their entire bloodline.

Exodus 2:11-12 (King James Version)


11And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out unto his brethren, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brethren.
12And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.


You can murder somebody if he is beating up your friend, as long as there is nobody around.

Exodus 21:17 (King James Version)


17And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.


Yes, this makes sense.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 (King James Version)


19Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt.
20For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses.


??? I guess donkey shows have been around for a long time....

Ezekiel 9:6 (King James Version)


6Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.


Yeah, make sure to kill those old people too.

Deuteronomy 13:15 (King James Version)


15Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.


Kill EVERYONE.
2 Kings 2:23-24 (King James Version)


23And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.


Using bears to kill small children.


Based on the books themselves, and history, I'd argue that most religion in general has hateful and violent undertones. You want a religion that is actually peaceful ? Try Buddhism or Taoism...

 

[JEDIYoda]

Numbers 31:17-18 (King James Version)

17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.


Kill everyone, but make sure to keep those sweet virgins for yourself. I'm sure they will happily give themselves to you after you just murdered their entire bloodline.

Exodus 2:11-12 (King James Version)


11And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out unto his brethren, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brethren.
12And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.


You can murder somebody if he is beating up your friend, as long as there is nobody around.

Exodus 21:17 (King James Version)


17And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.


Yes, this makes sense.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 (King James Version)


19Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt.
20For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses.


??? I guess donkey shows have been around for a long time....

Ezekiel 9:6 (King James Version)


6Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.


Yeah, make sure to kill those old people too.

Deuteronomy 13:15 (King James Version)


15Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.


Kill EVERYONE.
2 Kings 2:23-24 (King James Version)


23And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.


Using bears to kill small children.


Based on the books themselves, and history, I'd argue that most religion in general has hateful and violent undertones. You want a religion that is actually peaceful ? Try Buddhism or Taoism...

Your referencing books from the Old testament is just fine!!!
But what you are failing to understand is that NO christians in this day and age follow what you have quoted.
Why? because they try to live by the principles in the New testament!!
Most Christians would never follow through on the quotes from the old testament!!

To bad most people like you who try to equate Christianity with what the Muslims actually believe.....hmmmmm

Yet most Muslims actually believe and will carry out the the hate and violence that is spelled out quite clearly in the Qur`an!!

 

[hellotyler]

^^^
People pick and choose from both books regularly. Why is there such a big deal about homosexuality then ? Most of the stuff that people actually get angry about is from the Old testament. This is from somebody who went to an episcopalian church by my own accord (no family) for 4 years, until I started to realize all the inconsistencies. If Christians really were anywhere near as loving and accepting as the book says Jesus was, I would have no problem, but that is not the case. They are the first to throw stones when it comes to issues like abortion, prostitution, drug addicts, ect.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

I wish people lived by the principles taught in the new testament, the world really would be a better place.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Of course, assuming both private and public property rights are respected we are all free to burn anything we might like, and you are also free to agree with the burning of the Qur`an or the planned location of a mosque out of largely false associations between Islam and terrorism if like to. However, that doesn't make doing so out of mostly false associations between Islam and terrorism any less absurd, yet it is widespread, and these are disappointing circumstances for our nation to be in.


You could start educating yourself by looking up the verses Eagle's was supposedly quoting in actual English translations of Qur'an, unless you prefer to continue wallowing in ignorant bigotry.

so what you are saying is that Islam is the religion of peace??

If you believe that you should go over and live in a few of the Islamis nations......

 

[kylebisme]

Rather, I said that associations people draw between Islam and terrorism are mostly false, which is why nobody can quote actual English translations of Qur'an to defend arguments to the contrary.