A Muslim's perspective

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santz

Golden Member
Feb 21, 2006
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I am glad to respond to your questions, as this thread is about a Muslim's perspective.

Honor killings is an unfortunate (and sick) tradition practiced in certain parts of the world. It is NOT an Islamic teaching, tradition or custom in any manner. Honor killings are practiced signicantly in the Indian sub-continent and it part of the culture and traditions of that region.

signicantly.............seriously?
Good job MR. Grammer Nazi, I also see that it was easy for you to shift blame to other cultures as a means of making it seem less terrible or OK if it is practiced by Muslims.

Just pointing that out......
 
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Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
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Yes, this is my first post, and undoubtedly I will get thrashed for it as is the custom of AT Users. I have been a long time lurker, and there is every chance this post is going to get me banned straight up.

It is also a post about the current political discussions around Islam. There are a limited number of Muslims on the board and more often than not, they are always pushed to the defensive with quite indecent (to say the least) attacks.

I am a regular visitor to the so called Ground Zero mosque. I pray there. I have been praying there for over 9 months now. This media frenzy only started 2/3 months ago. The reason why Americans are against it is beyond me. Here are oft-stated talking points.

If I as an American have the right to religious freedom, whats wrong with this mosque/community center?

The building of the mosque so close to the Twin Towers is insensitive to the deaths of fellow Americans. How so? I am as much responsible as you are. America failed to prevent the terrorists from learning how to fly, passing through the security checks, boarding the plane and stopping the planes once it was learnt they were hijacked.

If your reasonings are that just because of my faith, I am somewhat responsible, that is not even sound reasoning.

To be sensitive to the general American perception is taking responsibility of the tragedy. I am NOT responsible, and no one should shove that responsibility on me.

The criticisms have also warped into the finances of the construction of the mosque. The congregation of the mosque donates siginificantly towards the construction. Additionally, a large amount of financing will come through allied commercial endeavors. Yes, non-US related funding may also be a part, but so what? Our entire country in large parts is funded by China; communist China, once a hated ideology in American mindset. Until there is evidence of bad people funding the mosque, this is a moot point.

Another criticism has been towards Imam Faisal. One can debate on and off about his past comments. There is no point in speaking to his defense. He is an American who has been soundly recognized and commended by the elected government of my country, this country.

A vast majority of you sit and comment on the forums after reading biased news outlets, while the ground perspectives of those who actually visit the mosque is never highlighted.

As a Muslim, I am saddened by the support of burning of the Quran. Why would you support that? I hold immense respect for the Holy Book. Reasonable people were against the burning of crosses by the KKK, were you not? Of course you have the freedom to do so, there is no doubt. But does that freedom grant you to inflame another community that is as American as you are?

In essence, you are purposefully supporting the targetting of the Muslim community, putting us in conflict with you, forcing a distinction between Americans and Muslims. There is no difference. I came to America to enjoy the freedoms this country provides, which are absent in the eastern half of the world. I didnt come here to be a target of your hate. I could face that in my home country. There are other Muslims, born and raised here, went to school and universities with fellow Americans. Are we that different that you choose to support this directed targetting?

America has had history of bad behavior towards a group of people, be it African Americans, Orientals (during WW2), perceived Communists and so on. I urge every one here to not let history repeat itself.

Alot of people live in the us vs them gestalt. For these people, it does not take much for someone or a group to be "them". It was not long ago for these people the Irish, Italians and Catholics were "them". Jews, Blacks, and anyone who looks, sounds, or prays differently are "them". There is not much you can do to get these people to accept you. You are too different.
You might be put on the xenophobia back burner when some other group solicits more fear than you do.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
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The Westboro Baptist Church's preaches that IEDs killing US soldiers are being sent from God because God hates fags. Any construction on Christian churches near military bases needs to be stopped immediately. So what has the Christian community in general done to rid itself of the radicals in the WBC? From the sideline it appears not much as those radicals are feared. IF there was real effort of the Christian community to police itself, there would not be much issue.

I dont know anybody that supports westboro. I know in general this group is denounced bu christians. They dont fund it and they dont support it. To my knowledge they have yet to kill anyone or blow anything up. I cant say that radical islam and westboro are on the same level.

If that doesn't drive my point home, here's another way of looking at things. Al-Qaeda follows Sunni Islam which happens to be the largest sect. The KKK follows Protestant Christianity which I believe is also the largest sect. Being Muslim doesn't make you a terrorist member of Al-Qaeda any more than being Protestant makes you a terrorist member of the KKK.

I never said being being muslim made you part of al qaeda.


Al-Qaeda follows the Salafi version of Sunni Islam, a pretty severe version of Islam that perhaps advocates more violence than others. They are pushing for Sharia Law across all countries. People like those behind the Olympic Park bombing with ties to the Christian Identity follow a British-Israelism version of Christianity, a which have a pretty extreme version that perhaps advocates more violence than others. They believe that non-Caucasians have no souls and cannot earn God's favor. Being Muslim doesn't mean you want to see all women covered in head to toe any more than being Christian means you hate people with brown skin.

That is the problem, there are some very extreme beliefs by muslims and the muslim population has done very little to police itself. And muslim in general getting pretty ticked off if you even mention there is a problem with islam. Just look what happens when when you write the wrong kind of book or even cartoon about islam.

Oh, and the guy behind Park51? He's a Sufi Islamist, which is probably as close to Al-Qaeda's teachings as the Unitarian Church's is to the Vatican's. There is an extremely wide range of views within any religion with a billion plus adherents, whether it's Christianity or Islam. Trying to hold all for the actions of a tiny few is stupid.[/QUOTE]

Maybe it is, maybe it is not. But it still offends a great many people who thinks putting a mosque on ground zero is rubbing salt in a wound.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
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Awwww bummer right before you were going to defend Islam for pushing wife-beating. Oh well, at least we learned that so called moderate Muslims will defend a country's right to blow up historical statues just because they belong to another religion.

Oh look, the neo-nazi has come out of the closet. No, that's not quite the right word is it?
Maybe I should compare your views with Stalin or Lenin or Marx?
At the very least it should be very easy to show statistically how anti-American you are.
But whatever right? As long as your arm in arm with folk like spidey, you've got a friend out there somewhere in the real world and that's better then the dark hole your real life provides eh.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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Meanwhile in Indonesia....

BEKASI, Indonesia (AP) — Indonesia's president ordered police to arrest the assailants who stabbed a Christian worshipper in the stomach and beat a minister in the head with a wooden plank as they headed to prayers.

Neither of the injuries appeared to be life-threatening.

Indonesia, a secular country of 237 million people, has more Muslims than any other in the world. Though it has a long history of religious tolerance, a small extremist fringe has become more vocal — and violent — in recent years.

President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, who relies heavily on Islamic parties in parliament, has been widely criticized in the media for failing to crack down on hard-liners.

But he immediately called on authorities to investigate and hold accountable those responsible for Sunday's attacks.

Police have said they know who the perpetrators were, though they would not comment further. Suspicion immediately fell on Muslim hard-liners who have repeatedly warned members of the Batak Christian Protestant Church against worshipping on a field housing their recently shuttered church.

In the last few months, they have thrown shoes and water bottles at church members, interrupted sermons with chants of "Infidels!" and "Leave Now!" and dumped piles of feces on the land.

"We've questioned nine witnesses and have already identified the perpetrators," said local detective, Capt. Ade Arie. "But it's too early to comment or speculate on a motive."

Local Police Chief Imam Sugianto said Asia Sihombing, a worshipper, was on his way to the field when assailants jumped off a motorcycle and stabbed him in the stomach.

The Rev. Luspida Simanjuntak was smashed in the head as she tried to come to his aid.

"I was trying to help get him onto a motorcycle so we could get him to a hospital," she told reporters in the industrial city of Bekasi, 25 miles (40 kilometers) east of Jakarta.

Leading the charge against the Batak Christians has been the Islamic Defenders Front, which is pushing for the implementation of Islamic-based laws in Bekasi and other parts of the nation.

They are known for smashing bars, attacking transvestites and going after those considered blasphemous with bamboo clubs and stones. Perpetrators are rarely punished or even questioned by police.

The Islamic Defenders Front pressured local authorities early this year to shutter the Batak church, located in a densely populated Muslim area, saying the permit was granted without the required approval of residents.

The Christian worshippers have refused to back down. Every week, about 20 or so return to the field to pray, defying threats and intimidation.

Most people in Indonesia practice a moderate form of Islam and abhor violence. But the Setara Institute for Peace and Democracy, a human rights group, said attacks on religious freedom by hard-liners were steadily increasing.

It said there have been 64 incidents — ranging from physical abuse to preventing groups from performing prayers and burning houses of worship — in 2010, up from 18 in 2009 and 17 in 2008.

"It's largely because Yudhoyono's administration is always so slow to step in," said Hendardi, a Setara activist, pointing to recent attacks on the Islamic minority sect, Ahmadiyah.

"If he doesn't take immediate steps to address this problem, then the blame lies with him."
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
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Meanwhile in Indonesia....

Meanwhile in America

Ahmed Sharif, Muslim Cab Driver Stabbed Because Of His Religion

Mayor Bloomberg, who spoke to Sharif and invited him to City Hall Friday, said the unprovoked attack was clearly "motivated by anti-Muslim bias."
"I assured him that ethnic or religious bias has no place in our city," Bloomberg said of his conversation with Sharif.
"This attack runs counter to everything that New Yorkers believe, no matter what God we pray to.

We could do this all day, couldn't we..
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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Meanwhile in Indonesia....

The Islamic Defenders Front pressured local authorities early this year to shutter the Batak church, located in a densely populated Muslim area, saying the permit was granted without the required approval of residents.

The Christian worshippers have refused to back down. Every week, about 20 or so return to the field to pray, defying threats and intimidation.

How insensitive of the Christians not to go somewhere else, just like it's 'insensitive' of the Park 51 Muslims not to build their community center away from where the people live.

Just because they have the right to pray there legally, clearly it upsets some people, and so they should give up their basic right to appease the bigots.

Their church was closed by the local authorities, but they refuse to show any consideration for the bigots' feelings, so why should anyone care about theirs?

OK, the above is facetious to make a point about the bad argument of the anti-community center people here.

But the article also says 'most Muslims in Indonisia are moderates and the people doing this are a few radicals'. I wonder how their percent doing this compare to our percent of people wanting Muslims to give up their basic rights to build a community center where it's needed, out of misguided blaming of Muslims for 9/11?

A more important story might be a reminder of how Indonesia wanted to be a thug nation and invade their neighbor East Timoor - and to do so, thought it'd be nice if the US gave them the weapons they needed to do so. For the 'partnership' with a major country as an ally, the Congress - run by the Democrats under Presidents Nixon and Ford - voted aid for Indoniesia but put int the law the weapons could *only* be used for defense.

So, Ford and Kissinger flew to Indonesia to hear the request for the US to support their aggressive invasion of East Timoor, and these Republican leaders, eager to get what they wanted, were happy to trade the lives of East Timoorans - and gave secret approval, illegally, to ignore the law and invade, just wait until they fly out and say President Ford did not give his approval. The day after Kissinger and Ford left, they invaded, and killed over 200,000 people IIRC.

There's a lot more of a lesson about the problems in the story there, IMO.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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In what way is this relevant to Routan?
Routan criticizes America for it's "history of bad behavior towards a group of people, be it African Americans, Orientals (during WW2), perceived Communists and so on." I'm just pointing out what is currently being done in the name of Islam. There are many, many examples every day of "bad behavior"...this is now...no need to dredge up crap from 160, 70, and 50 years ago to villify.

Meanwhile Muslims in Britain burn American and British flags...

Meanwhile two people were killed yesterday in a third straight day of violent Afghan protests sparked by a U.S. pastor's threat to burn copies of the Koran...
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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Routan criticizes America for it's "history of bad behavior towards a group of people, be it African Americans, Orientals (during WW2), perceived Communists and so on." I'm just pointing out what is currently being done in the name of Islam. There are many, many examples every day of "bad behavior"...this is now...no need to dredge up crap from 160, 70, and 50 years ago to villify.

I did not enjoy the insult at the end of the OP either, but such is alienation. There is a "us VS them" attitude on both sides. We feel it. Muslims feel it. That is how it works, we are to snap at and provoke one another into hate and violence until many are killed.

There is an alternative to feeding into it. There is a way to at least attempt to avoid the result of this run away effect.

The first thing we must do is create an image that they can aspire towards. We strengthen the idea of a peaceful cooperation, we reward them for participating. Once achieved the American people can look at an American Islam and not feel threatened by it.

Or we can point to Indonesia and through the process of alienation they will widthdraw from America and aspire to their own seperate identity. Americans will feel treatend by an Indonesian Islam and it will be very much the same here as it is in that country.

The irony would be that we are in control. We shape the direction, even though we may be ignorant of the controls and to which direction they lead us. Help American Muslims find peace, do not show them the Indonesian model or that is precisely what we'll get.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Imam calls for moderates to join together, fight extremismBy the CNN Wire StaffSeptember 13, 2010 10:27 a.m. EDT

Imam Rauf: I'm deeply distressedSTORY HIGHLIGHTS
Feisal Abdul Rauf says he wants a platform for moderate Muslims
Moderates of all religions should fight extremism in all religions, he says
Proposed Manhattan center will be "a place for all faiths to come together"
New York (CNN) -- Saying America has let extremists "hijack the agenda," the imam behind a controversial proposal to place an Islamic community center and mosque near Manhattan's ground zero said Monday he wants to create a platform where the voice of moderate Muslims can be amplified.

"This is an opportunity that we must capitalize on, so those who teach moderation will have a megahorn," Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf told the Council on Foreign Relations.

"We come together at a time of great crisis and danger," he said. "What began as a dispute over a community center in lower Manhattan has spawned and grown into a much larger controversy about the relationship between my beloved religion and my beloved country, between Islam and America.

"The events of the past few weeks have really saddened me to my very core," he said. "I regret that some have misunderstood our intentions. I'm deeply distressed that in this heated political season, some have exploited this issue for their own agendas."

Since 1983, Rauf said he has served as imam of a mosque in New York's Tribeca neighborhood, 12 blocks north of the site of the former World Trade Center. The Twin Towers, he said, defined the neighborhood's skyline and were part of its daily life. Some of his congregants died on September 11, 2001, he said, and Muslims grieved alongside their neighbors and helped in efforts to rebuild.

"I belong to this neighborhood, ladies and gentlemen," he said. "I'm a devout Muslim. I pray five times a day -- sometimes more, if I can -- and I observe the rituals required by my faith. And I'm also a proud American citizen, let no one forget that. I vote in elections, I pay taxes, I pledge allegiance to the flag, I am a Giants fan."

Muslims play a role in American history, from the African Muslims brought over as slaves to the Muslims of today, he said.



Immigrants to the United States have traditionally faced challenges in fitting in, he said, and been targeted for rejection by other groups -- Jews, Catholics, African-Americans and Hispanics, among others, he said. Each time, the group has been able to overcome those challenges. "Now, it is our turn, as Muslims, to drink from this cup."

Every religion has extremists, he noted.

"Islam categorically rejects the killing of innocent people. Terrorists violate the sanctity of human life and corrupt the meaning of our faith," he said. "In no way do they represent our religion and we must not let them define us."

He said there is a battle to be fought -- but it's not jihad against nonbelievers, as Muslim extremists say.

"The real battlefront, the real battle we must wage together today, is not between Muslims and non-Muslims, but it is between moderates of all faith traditions against the extremists of all the faith traditions. We must not let the extremists, whatever their faith, whatever their political persuasion, hijack the discourse and hijack the media. That only fuels greater extremism."

Rauf espoused creating a coalition of moderates from all faiths to combat extremism. "Everybody's looking for a Hail Mary pass," he said. "It won't happen in this situation."

"The story is not over," he said. "What happens right here, right now, in our city matters, and it matters more than ever. The way we confront our problems, the way we speak about them, the way we seek to reconcile our differences is watched" across the world.

"Is there really a need for an Islamic community center in lower Manhattan?" he said. "Is it worth all this firestorm? The answer, ladies and gentlemen, is a categorical 'Yes.' Why? Because this center will be a place for all faiths to come together as partners, as stakeholders, in mutual respect. It will bring honor to the city of New York."

"Let us therefore reject those who would use this crisis and the sacred memory of 9/11 to achieve their own ends," he said. "Let us especially not exploit the memories of the victims of that tragedy or the suffering of their families and friends. Let us condemn the use of holy texts or religious symbols for political or financial gain, even for fame."

A number of things have combined to bring Muslim extremism to the forefront, he said, including political and socioeconomic issues along with religious perceptions shaped by the media, which have created a "witches' brew."

Right now, "we have a situation, or a status quo, where the extremists can hijack the agenda," he said. And despite all our our intelligence, "we haven't figured out how to quiet them down."

During a question-and-answer session, Rauf would say little about negotiations regarding the community center, only that "we are exploring all options as we speak right now, and we are working through what will be a solution, God willing, that will resolve this crisis, defuse it, and not create any of the unforeseen circumstances that we do not want to see happen." Asked whether compromise was among the options under consideration, he said, "Everything is on the table."

Asked whether he anticipated such a controversy over the community center, Rauf said no. When the news became public, with a front-page New York Times story in December, "nobody objected," he said.

On what he would have done differently, he said, "we would try to do it differently. We would have had different stakeholders ... maybe not even do it at all."

He said he is not suggesting those against the center are radicals. But "there is a lot of unawareness of Islam in this country, which is why I urge people to understand it," he said.

The idea that Muslims are happy about extremism is incorrect, he said. "They're miserable, and they want something better, and we don't know how to give it to them because radical extremists have hijacked our discourse."

"The important part of what I'm trying to do, and my work, is that ... I want a space where the voice of the moderates can be amplified," he said. "It's not good enough to teach where no students will hear you."

On the idea of strict Islamic or Sharia law, Rauf said Muslims already practice sharia law -- in their dietary restrictions, when they pray, fast or when they bequeath their estates to their children under American law, for instance.

Ninety percent of Sharia law is consistent and compatible with the U.S. Constitution, he said, and the areas of difference are "small and minor."
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,297
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Imam Rauf: What's right with IslamBy Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, Special to CNNSeptember 12, 2010 12:08 p.m. EDT

Imam: Lose your ego, find your compassionSTORY HIGHLIGHTS
Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf says Islam and America have much in common
He says both have faith in goodness of humanity and in unity of people
He says viewing the world as a struggle between good and evil leads to extremism, arrogance
America's values are its greatest gift to the world, he says
Editor's note: TED is a nonprofit organization devoted to "Ideas Worth Spreading," which it makes available through talks posted on its website. Feisal Abdul Rauf is chairman of the nonprofit organization Cordoba Initiative and imam of Masjid al-Farah, a mosque in Lower Manhattan, and he is a planner of the proposed Islamic community center near ground zero. He gave the talk above in October 2009. Below is an excerpt from his book, "What's Right With Islam."

(CNN) -- The world wants to like America. The guiding values that Thomas Jefferson articulated so eloquently -- life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness -- resonate strongly around the world, transcending countless superficial and cultural differences, not because these are American values, but because they are universal values, embedded in the human heart.

Americans must outgrow the unbecoming arrogance that leads us to assert that America somehow owns a monopoly on goodness and truth -- a belief that leads some to view the world as but a stage on which to play out the great historical drama: the United States of America versus the Powers of Evil.

The language of good versus evil is precisely the language of the fundamentalists whose worldview we oppose. Once we define as evil those who counter us, we lose the moral high ground and begin to descend an exceedingly slippery ethical slope.

Sufis teach that we first must battle and destroy the evil within ourselves by shining upon it the good within, and then we learn to battle the evil in others by helping their higher selves gain control of their lower selves.

TED.com: Robert Wright explains where compassion comes from

To battle the evil of others by responding in kind and exhibiting equally violent aggressive behavior is to flout the very ethic of our religious traditions; it is also to violate the Geneva conventions, international law, the United Nations, world opinion, and even our own Bill of Rights. If we truly believe that God is on our side, rather than making sure that we are on God's side, we slip into the illusion that sees no measure as too extreme -- a delusion that captivates every extremist heart.

We have two powerful tools with which to bridge the chasm separating the United States from the Muslim world: faith in the basic goodness of humanity and trust in the power of sincerity and dialogue to overcome differences with our fellow human beings.

This faith and this trust are taught by all the Abrahamic traditions. They define the Abrahamic ethic, which lies at the core of our American Declaration of Independence, and America needs to rely more heavily on them, as do our fellow actors on the stage of history.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
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BTW I'm one of the admins. We don't hate you, and it is we who hold the keys. Unfortunately we cannot guarantee the civility of others, but we can hope.

As another admin, I concur.

We can not control, but we can try to guide and restrain if acceptable bounds are exceeded.

Your initial post was not antagonistic and very well setup.
 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
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The building of the mosque so close to the Twin Towers is insensitive to the deaths of fellow Americans. How so? I am as much responsible as you are. America failed to prevent the terrorists from learning how to fly, passing through the security checks, boarding the plane and stopping the planes once it was learnt they were hijacked.

Wow, you are the most absurd Muslim I have ever heard. This has to be some kind of joke...

seriously, we were attacked because...because we could be? That's like blaming rape victims for not trying to run away/fight back. Never mind the fact the rapist executed the crime.

Ah yes, but Muslims have such respect and tolerance for rape victims don't they?


OP, frankly if you had any sense of shame you'd realize that the Ground Zero Mosque along with Sharia law is not only an insult to Americans (whom which you understandably fail to relate to, being a product of American Leftist victimization + the laws of your own religion) but an assault upon the very concept of freedom in the United States.

There are Mosques throughout the United States that act as beacons for terrorism, and yet somehow people are naive enough to think that the Mosque built on the greatest attack/massacre on U.S. soil since '41 isn't going to be a rallying point for terrorist sentiments?

Thank you for sharing your opinion, it's both enlightening and underlines everything wrong with the Nihilist left.
 
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Nov 30, 2006
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The first thing we must do is create an image that they can aspire towards. We strengthen the idea of a peaceful cooperation, we reward them for participating. Once achieved the American people can look at an American Islam and not feel threatened by it.
Meanwhile a 3 year old Muslim girl yearns to kill infidels...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjbJnZUJTYU&NR=1

Looks to me that someone has already created an image for her to aspire to. How nice.

Jaskalas, I have no problem with the mosque in NYC nor with any Muslim that wants to peacefully co-exist with non-Muslims (a vast majority). But, as you can see...there are deep-seated issues at play here that's obviously not confined to Indonesia...and the problem keeps growing bigger and bigger every day. This isn't our problem to feel less threatened by Islam...it's their problem to be less threatening.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
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I'm not one to defend any superstitions, but if you'd prefer to cling to truncated and garbled nonsense I'll just leave you with that, as I'm not one to waste time attempting to dispel individuals of such blatantly willful ignorance either. However, if you care to quote verses from commonly accepted English translations of Qur'an, I'd be happy to discuss the facts.

Even routed admitted his version contained verses about wife-beating. What's your version of the Quran like? Does it talk about how everyone is free to believe what they want?
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
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Rather, I said that associations people draw between Islam and terrorism are mostly false, which is why nobody can quote actual English translations of Qur'an to defend arguments to the contrary.
Apparently you're unable to quote them either...
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
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lol infohawk has been up in this thread for 15 hours. You cant manufacture hatred like that.

Notice how all the sock puppets post here all day and night lately? Must suck for this to be their only job... well that and waiting for the unemployment check to come so they can bitch about socialism.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
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He says viewing the world as a struggle between good and evil leads to extremism

It is a constant battle between good and evil......
Where it leads to extremism is when people believe that their way is the only way to achieve good!
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
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Tinker is a also new poster like the OP. He's received just as much if not more animosity from fellow posters.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
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Notice how all the sock puppets post here all day and night lately? Must suck for this to be their only job... well that and waiting for the unemployment check to come so they can bitch about socialism.

Do you ever post arguments? Or just quips?
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
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Kylebisme, even routed admitted his version contained verses about wife-beating. What's your version of the Quran like? Does it talk about how everyone is free to believe what they want?


Quote:
Originally Posted by kylebisme
Rather, I said that associations people draw between Islam and terrorism are mostly false, which is why nobody can quote actual English translations of Qur'an to defend arguments to the contrary.

Apparently you're unable to quote them either...

Infohawk you will have to forgive Kylebisme....
He actually believe he is an expert on anything he comments on in these forums.

From the Qu`ran to the WTC towers.....
 
Nov 29, 2006
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We support freedom of speech and expression in this country and while many of us do, in fact, find burning the Quran in very poor taste, we support the right of a person to do it whether it "inflames" a community or not. The "inflamed" community has every right to voice their displeasure but when threats of violence or actual violence arises, they've crossed the line and must be dealt with severely. To the members of the Muslim community who may be offended by the Quran being burned -- sorry, but you're just going to have to get over it.

Pretty much this. You came to and want to be a part of this country. This is what we are founded on. Freedom of speach no matter how insensitive it is. Basically its a "Dont like the channel, then change it" mentality. If you dont like it, this may not be the country for Muslims.

<---Agnostic Atheist.
 
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