A Muslim's perspective

[tinker2141]

You may not be responsible for them but your religious leaders are. Just like the Pope is the one holding the bag on the child rape issues in the Catholic church or the Neo-Evangelical parish leaders whose flock decides to bomb abortion clinics is de facto responsible for his congregation actions. Want respect start having those who are preaching radicalism ousted.

 

[charrison]

Quran burning is not an issue of a right to free speech or prefential treatment. It is an issue about human decency to act in respectful manner.

Many people view the mosque by the twins towers in the same context You can do it, but it not the right thing to do because it is not a decent thing to do. Poll after poll show people believe they have right to build the mosque, but that it is not the right thing to do.

 

[Lemon law]

In terms of no other groups using suicide bombing, I can certainly cite the case of Japanese kamikazes during WW2. And the Jews at Masada committed mas suicide, slaying even their own children rather than being captured.

Sadly, killing for religious reasons has been a sad stain throughout human history, and in times of national distress, the message of demonizing a huge number of people for the actions of just a few reflects on the worst parts of human nature. Just a casual scan of human history shows that religious hatreds are all too easy to incite.

 

[Kirby]

You may not be responsible for them but your religious leaders are. Just like the Pope is the one holding the bag on the child rape issues in the Catholic church or the Neo-Evangelical parish leaders whose flock decides to bomb abortion clinics is de facto responsible for his congregation actions. Want respect start having those who are preaching radicalism ousted.

Why the fuck can't you use a normal font?

 

[tinker2141]

Why the fuck can't you use a normal font?

Looks normal on my screen

 

[Moonbeam]

routan, I am told I go back to 1514 as an American but never mind. My father was better than that. He claimed to be 200% American because he hated everybody. Welcome to America. With the number of idiots, bigots, and uneducated boobs like my good friend tinker, above, to loathe, you also will easily qualify as a genuine American.

And there is nothing in your post that would even get you remotely banned in my opinion.

You were especially right about one thing. Neither you nor Islam was responsible for 9/11. There is nothing you have to defend. We all would like for other people to be objective, fair, and loving, but none of us has that as a personal responsibility or even the capacity, to insure that others will be that way. We can only demonstrate by example what we believe and you are doing well with that in my opinion. Glad you came here, glad you posted, glad you're my fellow American.

 

[NetGuySC]

Cross burnings, church burnings and he like have been denounced by religious leaders here of all faiths. Do the Islamic leaders here in America, or even of the leader of the Islamic center that you speak of, publicly denounced those who commit unspeakable acts in the name of islam such a bus bombings, beheadings, the killing of 3000 people on 9-11, the death threats of those who denounce or deface the koran.

I could go on but it seems that the deafening silence heard from Islamic leaders denouncing those who commit dispicable acts in the name of Islam, make many feel including myself that these same leaders leaders and their followers are complicent in these acts of terror.

personally, I could not attend a church if the leader of this church had religious views that were radically different than my own. The fact that it seems you do, makes me question the sincerity of your post.

But thanks for the posts, could be a learning experience for me.

 

[routan]

Never claimed to be an expert. BTW correct my grammar it is a known deficiency and I am working on it. It’s appreciated. Hey not saying you are a bad person you actually seem reasonable enough.

The people I am describing claim to be Muslim when carrying out these acts. Either the people who do not support this are too scared to say anything, support it or simply do not care.

Anyone who criticizes Islam faces an incredible amount of flak if not outright death. You may not want the preferential treatment but many followers of Islam do. Example the cartoon of Mohammad. Plenty of silly examples of characters of Buda, Jesus and other deities mocked. We go after a figure in Islamic scripture and a shit storm erupts.

People burn bibles, torahs and flags all the time. Some guy burns a Koran and the world goes crazy. Why? Is it any more special than any other text? Absolutely not. Fanatics and intimidation is what created the stigma the world would end if we burned that book. That man may have symbolized more than any words ever could. You want us to accept and tolerate Islam. Then you and every other Muslim have the responsibility to put the radicals in check.

The people who claim to be human forget the civility and reasoning skills that comes along with it.

What would you like other Muslims, such as myself to do with respect to people who, for example, indulge in suicide bombings? Would you like me to reason with them? I think I hold my life quite valuable, and would not indulge in discussions with mad men.

Yes, there are certain things in Islam that I hold utmost value, as do others, such as the Quran, pictorial representation of prophets, etc. Non-Muslims know this, YET they wish to do the things that are held at such high esteem? Why is that?

Which incident are you talking about when mentioning burning of Torah? Which incidence do you note where Muslims have depicted Buddha, Jesus, others in bad taste? Where there IS a depiction of Jesus (i.e. the Cross, Buddha statues), and it being contrary to Islam, have Muslims jumped around and told other faiths to stop or disrespect them?

I know of one such incidence. Do you remember the Taliban destruction of the Buddha statues? Did you cry foul then? I thought they were utter retards, and worse. If you support burning of the Quran, I hold you at their level. Congratulations.

 

[Kirby]

Looks normal on my screen

This one is normal, but the previous one had been changed to calibri or something.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

As a Muslim, I am saddened by the support of burning of the Quran. Why would you support that? I hold immense respect for the Holy Book. Reasonable people were against the burning of crosses by the KKK, were you not? Of course you have the freedom to do so, there is no doubt. But does that freedom grant you to inflame another community that is as American as you are?

We support freedom of speech and expression in this country and while many of us do, in fact, find burning the Quran in very poor taste, we support the right of a person to do it whether it "inflames" a community or not. The "inflamed" community has every right to voice their displeasure but when threats of violence or actual violence arises, they've crossed the line and must be dealt with severely. To the members of the Muslim community who may be offended by the Quran being burned -- sorry, but you're just going to have to get over it.

 

[Moonbeam]

You may not be responsible for them but your religious leaders are. Just like the Pope is the one holding the bag on the child rape issues in the Catholic church or the Neo-Evangelical parish leaders whose flock decides to bomb abortion clinics is de facto responsible for his congregation actions. Want respect start having those who are preaching radicalism ousted.

So you want to be banned? You're as absurdly radical as any you are railing against.

 

[Infohawk]

As an American I don't get uncomfortable when people point out the founding of this country was based on the genocide of native americans. Do you get offended when people link 9/11 to Islam?

 

[tinker2141]

I never said Muslims made characters of other religious figures; I simply stated that others had. Islam is free to be poked fun of just like every other useless religion. I supported the man for doing what he is free to do in this country. Just like the Madrassah/Community center/Mosque is free to be built on ground zero. Knock yourselves out. Honestly I see you for what you are just another Muslim crying foul that his religion is being seen for what it is.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

So for example, in your opinion, there should be no such thing as anti-Semitic speech?

Quran burning is not an issue of a right to free speech or prefential treatment. It is an issue about human decency to act in respectful manner.

It absolutely is an issue of freedom of expression, and our court system would disagree with you.

Do you see Muslims in America running around giving hate speeches about subjects contrary to their beliefs? They do have the right to do so, but they have the decency to not do so.

And? If an American Islamic group came out tomorrow and burned Bibles, I'd say the same thing -- it is in bad taste, but they have the right. I wouldn't be threatening violence.

We DO see hate speech from Muslims in other nations directed toward the United States ALL THE TIME. Burning the American flag, the Bible burning/church desecration in Pakistan, etc -- did you hear Christians from the US or abroad threatening violent retaliation? No.

Again, Islam as a religion does not use suicide bombings as intimidation tactics.

I can safely say this is an textbook example of an unreasonable mindset. It usually comes from playing too many video games and not going partaking in good education.

That is incorrect. Most here are highly educated and while we find the Quran burning in bad tastes, we're smart enough to know we have freedom of expression in this country and tens of millions of our friends, relatives, and ancestors fought and some died to give these rights to us.

 

[Infohawk]

BTW I'm one of the admins. We don't hate you, and it is we who hold the keys. Unfortunately we cannot guarantee the civility of others, but we can hope.

*golf clap*

Le'ts face it, you can't even guarantee the civility of your fellow mods.

IMO, this is coming close to a "Mod call-out" and that is against the forum rules. Please don't go there.

TIA

Fern
Super Moderator

 

[Number1]

Thank you for the welcome.

The act of idiots in Britain is idiotic. There is no story related to the video. It is even sadder that this happened around Sept 11. I am not sure if this was related in response to the planned burning of the Quran, which may be taken as a mitigating factor; nonetheless, these guys probably have no jobs, no education, no money, not married (hence no sex) and so this is a result.

I would however like to say that JUST like how you are "torn apart", the burning of our Holy Scripture is many times over your feelings.

I am not responsible for these tens of idiots. I dont think this should be used as grounds for "Islam is bad" comments.

By torn apart I mean I don't know what to think. I fully understand how infuriating it is to have your holy book burned in your face just to piss you off. I don't know if you are familiar with the Wesboro Baptist Church, this is a group of so called religious people who travel to protest at funerals of killed soldiers in the US. It might very well be legal but it sure is infuriating and in no way represent the views of the regular run of the mill Baptist church goers.


It is about time real Muslims like you come over and offer us your perspective and denounce this extremism. It`s overdue and more then welcome.

 

[routan]

As an American I don't get uncomfortable when people point out the founding of this country was based on the genocide of native americans. Do you get offended when people link 9/11 to Islam?

First is a 300 year old incident. Second is not even a decade old.

First is partially true. Second is completely untrue.

 

[Infohawk]

First is a 300 year old incident. Second is not even a decade old.

First is partially true. Second is completely untrue.

So 9/11 had nothing to do with Islam? If you think that you're never going to understand why many Americans are upset. You must be one of those people that only thinks nice people are Muslim. All the terrorists belong to some other religion right?

 

[Eagle1969]

Soon the Americans will make the wood for the fireplace in the form of the Koran. I will support American friends, but I will secretly hate them for the collapse of the Soviet Union.

 

[routan]

By torn apart I mean I don't know what to think. I fully understand how infuriating it is to have your holy book burned in your face just to piss you off. I don't know if you are familiar with the Wesboro Baptist Church, this is a group of so called religious people who travel to protest at funerals of killed soldiers in the US. It might very well be legal but it sure is infuriating and in no way represent the views of the regular run of the mill Baptist church goers.


It is about time real Muslims like you come over and offer us your perspective and denounce this extremism. It`s overdue and more then welcome.

Just to give you another perspective, real Muslims, or common Americans are far too busy making a living, taking care of their families and enjoying their lives. Hence no massive display of denouncing extremism.

Very few people of our populace visit forums like this so that they can express their "outrage" or "evidence" or "facts".

 

[routan]

Soon the Americans will make the wood for the fireplace in the form of the Koran

no idea whether this was sarcastic or not, but if any post is noteworthy of being reported, or user being banned, this would be it.

 

[nick1985]

no idea whether this was sarcastic or not, but if any post is noteworthy of being reported, or user being banned, this would be it.

Thats nothing.

 

[routan]

So 9/11 had nothing to do with Islam? If you think that you're never going to understand why many Americans are upset. You must be one of those people that only thinks nice people are Muslim. All the terrorists belong to some other religion right?

I dont think "terrorists" belong to any religion. I dont think "terrorists" belong to humankind at all.

Al-Qaeda/Osama bin Laden was responsible. If I know my facts correctly, he/thr group was equipped by American funds and know-how than by Islam to plan and implement the dastardly act.

 

[Infohawk]

no idea whether this was sarcastic or not, but if any post is noteworthy of being reported, or user being banned, this would be it.

The intolerance of ideas is strong in you...

 

[umbrella39]

I was all for the Koran burning. Americans should not be afraid to exercise the right to free speech. Islam needs to be silenced in the same manner as every other religion. You should receive zero preferential treatment. This is what is pissing everyone off. You’re so called entitlement to tolerance. No other religion enjoys it. Then again no other religion uses suicide bombings as intimidation tactics.

Nice sock puppet talk. Come out into the light...