So what do you think his real deal is?
Reading the article wanted to see if mormons were safe from muslims (other than the belief in Christ thing).
What exactly does Muhammad prohibit (besides artist renditions)?
EDIT: Add on
Also, the article seems to bring to mind affirmative action. You can have scholarships for a number of different racial groups, but if you are white, male, and have no disabilities you are out of luck. No special treatment for you. Unless you already have money, but then again you wouldn't need a scholarship. WM w/o $ r SOL.
FTM0305, funny how you point out to Original Earl's selection of websites, and then apparently subscribe to the opinions of a known conservative Christian with anti-Islam viewpoints, that too from a poster who has repeatedly filled this thread with ridiculously biased selection of spam.
It was a joke, really. But I think you're gonna get the others riled up again since you responded to me instead of the questions they asked.
But it would be nice if you did lay out Islamic beliefs.
Simple questions for routan, as he can't answer the complicated ones -
Do you believe sharia should be the law of the land in America?
Do you believe that sharia compliance should be a factor in how life is lived in America? For Muslims? For non-Muslims?
Do you believe a parallel system of sharia law should exist in the United States, side by side with American constitutional law?
Do you live a life bound by sharia, above and beyond the laws of the United States?
Do you believe that faithful Muslims have a right, or an obligation, to live lives bound by sharia law above or instead of American constitutional law?
Do you advocate in your community that this "right" to live a sharia compliant life is an actual obligation if you are Muslim?
How do you treat someone who only accepts part of sharia and speaks out that the part that they reject is anti-American?
How do you treat someone who is Muslim but rejects sharia law entirely for other rules and standards for a good life?
Should a faithful Muslim fall in love and marry a polytheist, will you accept the spouse as an equal in your Muslim community?
Will you welcome a homosexual couple, married under the liberalized laws of New York or the US, as Muslims, with all the benefits and privileges of being Muslims, in your mosque?
If America rejects sharia, formally and officially, wherever and whenever it rises, will you be loyal to America or to Islam?
Those are good questions to start with. You introduced this thread to share a Muslim prospective. You solicited this attention. If you don't want it, then don't reply and let the thread die.
No one is bound to reply to 10,000 words of spam dump. Pjabber is free to choke off the bandwidth of an entire internet backbone if he so chooses, discussing every collateral issue under the sun that is of personal interest to him. That doesn't mean anyone is required to respond to each and every point of minutia raised.
Pjabber often reminds me of:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/index.p...le=Gish_gallop
- wolf
Pjabber asked Routon some 15 odd questions about Sharia law and you're now demanding that Routon answer all of them. Yeah, that is the very definition of Gish Galluping.
How about this approach.
Yo, Routon. What do you think about Sharia law? Should it be adopted in the US or what?
- wolf
FTM0305, the questions you are referring to is a ridiculous amalgamation, and in no way is asking for a Muslim perspective. It is rather designed to make the discussion so convulated, there will remain no perspective.
Infact, dont take my word for it, take a non-Muslim's. He put it better than I can:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=30503294&postcount=685
I should subscribe to the Book of Wolf as well.
If you feel the questions are bated and lead to conflict then why don't you give some guidelines for what Islam believes.
The questions are quite simple and straight forward. They are not all yes/no and are open ended so you can explain your answer/views. I don't see why it is so tough for you to answer them. If I started a thread like this and someone posted these sorts of questions about my beliefs, I would likely answer them if I wanted the discussion/thread to continue.
FTM0305, in what aspect? Sharia?
I don't even know what that is. I guess that would be good to start with.
I don't even know what that is. I guess that would be good to start with.
FTM0305, sure, if you would like to learn about Islam, I'd be happy to oblige. This should however be a separate thread altogether, as this thread was only to provide a Muslim's perspective. Nonetheless, in a very brief nutshell...
Sharia basically refers to Islamic law. It is derived from the Quran, explained further by Hadith and Sunnah, interpreted by scholars for the current context and has an allowance for usage of common sense by an individual.
As with common law, there is a concept of precedence. However, precedence always has to be taken into account with the context of a ruling(s) previously made.
The code of law provides Muslims with values how to live life, with religious obligations and strong positive ethical and moral values.
Please feel free to ask questions about anything specific you would like to know.
I'm planning on launching a Youtube channel that goes through LDS doctrine. Would you be interesting in collaborating in the future for doing animated videos that teach basic Islamic law?
let me know via PM.
werepossum, I had already defined hadith. That is probably the only thing you were right about. Let me clarify for the larger community. There are not only 6 or 7 major hadiths. Hadiths are used as references for understanding the Quran and as a source of precedence for jurisprudence.
I cant seem to understand why you would throw an underhanded comment about Mohammad (sa), without any reference whatsoever. Or describe Hadiths as a source of sectarianism.
You referred to the websites such as Al-Jazeera/PakTribnte as sources where information is provided different in English vs. the native language, pursuant to your claim and my request for substantiation. If you are portraying them as reasonably accurate, I dont quite follow what you are trying to point out?
I do thank you for providing good references for people wanting to learn about Hadiths
Everyone lets just let this thread die. It is obvious he is not going to answer any questions that he feels his truthful answer would shed any negative light on himself or Islam.
Basically this thread is a waste of space.
This thread if it shall continue shall now be about Bacon filled Waffles.
I should have said there are six or seven major collections of hadith. As far as the hadith and their relationship to the sects, the Shi'a sect bases its ideology on the teachings of Ali and his immediate family, so their imams tend to rely on the hadith compiled by those persons. Sunni on the other hand rely more on hadith compiled by Muhammed's contemporary companions. There is of course considerable overlap in valuation between sects both in collections and in individual hadith, as different events, observations, and rulings in Muhammed's life may appear in several collections. The closest corollaries within the Christian faith would be the additional books appearing in the Catholic Bibles, the Book of Mormon, and the teachings of Martin Luther and similar reformers among Protestants.
As far as the sites I posted, I was portraying them neither as accurate nor as inaccurate, but merely giving you resources so that you may compare, say, a person's interview with the PakTribune versus with an interview with the Chicago Tribune. Note that English versions may differ from the original version in Arabic, Farsi/Dari, Pashto, etc. but unless you read those languages you'll have to decide for yourself who you can trust. Still, what a person says to the media for Muslim consumption often varies from what the same person says in the Western media. I no longer visit those sites, so if you want specific examples you'll need to read them for yourself.
As far as underhanded comments about Muhammed, it's very important that everyone understand the difference between Muhammed and other major religious figures. Jesus came as sacrifice for our sins; he lived as a merchant, carpenter, or builder (depending on who you believe) for thirty years, preached for three, and was executed. Although a feared figure by both Jewish and Roman orthodoxy (the title "King of the Jews" was not idly thrown at him, supposedly Josef was of the line of David) he may no attempt at seizing secular power. Buddha preached spiritual enlightenment an peace. Moses fought to free his people and to secure for them a home - he is probably the closest corollary to Muhammed, being engaged in war for territory, though he made no attempt to expand that territory as far as possible, and also delivered secular law to the Jews.
Muhammed though was different; he was very much a man of the times. He led wars of conquest, he made and broke treaties and alliances and promises as it suited him (as is reflected in the hadith), he took brides as it suited him - including a seven year old, though he graciously waited until the age of nine for consummation. He established a hereditary government (his appointed heir being his son-in-law Cousin Ali) combining both secular and religious absolute control, with a tiered tax system and specific penalties. In short, Muhammed brought a complete way of life. Your own imam Rauf has said in non-US interviews that those laws which conflict with Sharia are not allowable and must be struck down. In any discussion of Muhammed and Islam, we must understand the nature of both Muhammed, and of Islam as a complete way of life rather than "merely" a religion. Only then can we understand Islam and what is at stake.
If you really wanted to let the thread die you wouldn't have posted. I guess you feel that your words should be the last. I know many Muslims and none believe in/nor want to live under Sharia Law.
Also your mention of Bacon knowing that Muslims are not allowed to consume pork is an insult.
Okay Mr. 9 posts who hasn't participated in the thread at all.
CADsortaGUY, I am glad to know you would answer them. I do doubt however that you would either answer all 15 questions with the explanations, or be able to explain sufficiently without some understanding of a subject by the reader.
For example, a question like:
"Do you live a life bound by sharia, above and beyond the laws of the United States?"
is so ridiculous and designed to make readers perceive a startling conflict, I dont even know what the answer could be. I live a life according to Islam. And I live my life as an American. I dont see any conflict whatsoever.
Answering such questions will not satisfy either the poster of these questions, nor other members asking for an answer, as they too wish to see Islamic values as being as diametrically opposite of American values. Which is utterly false.
werepossum, this is a more accurate post.
Couple of things to correct: The Sunni/Shia divide is not as simple as just ascribing to certain collection of traditions. The history is long, and the schism was originally due to the influence of non-Muslims in setting about a revolt.
Thank you for the reference sites. I still dont have a substantiation of your claim as different messages put forth in English and Native languages of media outlets.
I see that you are persisting with your negative portrayal of Mohammad (sa). While Mohammad (sa) DID preach a way of life, this message is in no way a wrong/bad/evil one.
You also persist in making claims without any references. I gave you a resource (one that you disagreed with) about the Treaty of Hudaybiah. You just claim Mohammad (sa) broke the treaty :hmm:. Mohammad (sa) did NOT establish a hereditary government. The caliph after Mohammad (sa) was elected.
This is a pattern of you stating things without basis, and not factual, without any reference. I dont know why you have this anti-Islam bias, but if thats how you wish to live your life, more power to you.