Your post was directed to MJinZ so you just did.
What moonbeam is trying to tell you is that you aren't amongst reasonable people. You are surrounded by bigots and idiots. Once you understand the lunacy that surrounds you, you can be released from feeling the effects of that lunacy.
Welcome.
Truly nothing is wrong with it. Or at least there should be nothing wrong. We, as bound by our laws, should allow it. Even if we feel wrong about it, it should not be stopped.
We feel wrong about it because, like you and so many others, that Mosque itself is a victim of September 11th. Islam and America are divided, and no serious effort has been undertaken these past 9 years to heal that wound. Feelings of your ailenation are on both sides, opposition to Islam is a consequence.
What stands before our people is a run away effect. A snowball rolling down hill gaining both size and momentum. Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are mere distractions that have turned out heads away from this impending disaster. Now it is drawing closer, growing louder. Mosques are opposed and Qurans are burning. We begin to realize something is happening. That snowball continues to roll.
It is our great shame that this snowball was not stopped earlier. That it has grown to such heights that it now requires a monumental effort. A combined effort on both our sides. Sadly I fear this will never happen. Our people are too fixated on the rumbling sound of the snowball, and wish to put on ear muffs.
The Mosque is nothing but a symptom of a much greater problem that began, for us, on September 11th.
No you're not responsible.
However, part of this run away effect is the public imagine of a foreign and violent Islam. The faith in general is given blame, and the wound of September 11th paints you all with a broad brush. Alienation is a damned thing. Both sides lose trust with each other, but only trust can heal the wound.
I'm afraid the media is not helping. The public image of Islam is of violence and foreign loyalties. It is one of terrorists and anti-Americanism. This public image drives people to think Islam is a danger to America.
The reality of you, and of others who actually visit the mosque is ignored. Yet it is you who are American. You should be the face of Islam in America, but the media has not helped you.
You need help, you need a monumental effort to replace the public image of Islam with your image. I'm sorry that no one is providing this help. I would call on Congress to create a program that does this. We need something that builds trust between us and changes the public image of Islam.
Though Ive said much, Ill refrain from the Quran question for now. Routan, I wish you and I could change things and that people would not feel a need to oppose Islam. That people would listen and that America and Islam could find peace with one another. I fear our nation will make no effort to accomplish this.
If I as an American have the right to religious freedom, whats wrong with this mosque/community center?
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As a Muslim, I am saddened by the support of burning of the Quran. Why would you support that? I hold immense respect for the Holy Book. Reasonable people were against the burning of crosses by the KKK, were you not? Of course you have the freedom to do so, there is no doubt. But does that freedom grant you to inflame another community that is as American as you are?
A certain rich Muslim, when his daughter was married, gave his son-in-law a Quran as a wedding gift. The couple fell on hard times a few years later and went to him for a loan. He told them that if they had been good Muslims they wouldn't have needed to ask because he had put money in the Quaran for them. A Sufi who knew them said to him, dear man, your son in law knows the Quran by heart, and your daughter, who cannot read, lives it everyday in her heart.
They are afraid and frightened people require a demon.Funny how some members do recognize that lunacy exists on both sides. I came to America thinking I have left behind the lunatics and extremists. Its quite disheartening to find educated Americans also acting loony.
Funny how some members do recognize that lunacy exists on both sides. I came to America thinking I have left behind the lunatics and extremists. Its quite disheartening to find educated Americans also acting loony.
? So you want the religious freedom to inflame but don't want other's speech/acts to inflame? Do you not see that you are asking others to not do what your leader is doing?
Muslims are not a Nazi like war machine out to commit genocide.
This circulates in email from time to time. It can also be found on the web.
1. 1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by a Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and 40.
2. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics , athletes were kidnapped and massacred by Muslim male extremists between the ages of 17 and 40.
3. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by Muslim male extremists between the ages of 17 and 40.
4. During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by Muslim male extremists between the ages of 17 and 40.
5. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by Muslim male extremists between the ages of 17 and 40.
6. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair by Muslim male extremists between the ages of 17 and 40.
7. In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a US Navy diver trying to rescue passengers was murdered by Muslim male extremists between the ages of 17 and 40.
8. In 1988 , Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by Muslim male extremists between the ages of 17 and 40.
9. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by Muslim male extremists between the ages of 17 and 40.
10. In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by Muslim male extremists between the ages of 17 and 40.
11. On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles to take down the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one crashed into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the passengers. Thousands of people were killed by Muslim male extremists between the of 17 and 40.
12. In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against Muslim male extremists between the ages of 17 and 40.
13. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by-- you guessed it-- Muslim male extremists between the ages of 17 and 40.
These incidents and far, far more that are not mentioned are why sentiments can be negative towards your religion. Those of us that don't practice the Muslim faith have a difficult time determining who wants us dead and who doesn't. Blunt language, but I think you can handle it.
If you or anyone else would like to counter any of the above talking points, we'll all be willing to hear you out I'm sure.
Personally, I'm not concerned about being murdered by Muslim male extremists, or being blown up by women or juvenile Muslim extremists. I think the chances of that happening are slim to none. It's so far down on my worry list as to be non-existent. I also harbor no ill will against those that practice the faith. Besides being none of my business, I don't care what faith anyone practices. It's a personal thing and if you leave me alone in that regard I'm OK with it.
But there is a pattern that has been evolving over a long time. A correlation between your faith and violence which is often extreme. Surely you are smart enough to understand why many feel the way they do.
Defending your faith is a nice thing to do and all, but your efforts would be better spent on getting the members of your faith to embrace the true tenants of your faith. To get them to renounce the violence and learn to live in peace with those of differing views and opinions. When Muslims are acting out in extreme and violent ways, all the PR in the world is for naught.
Whether right or wrong, if the majority of Americans don't want that mosque in the planned location, don't be surprised at the reaction if it gets built there. No rocket science, just common sense.
Neither were most Germans. But most Germans seem to recognize that something very bad was done in their name.
Even if I were to go on your list, 13 points represent a totality of how many individuals? 100? 200? I assume you dont think the entire country of Afghanistan committed 9/11 and not everyone in Iran was responsible for the Embassy occurence (which in itself has a LOT of history).
Muslims DO recognize that a heinous act was committed in Islam's NAME. However, that act does NOT represent Islam, just like the Nazi's do NOT represent Germany.
I am agreeing with your viewpoint completely, and you're speaking exactly my sentiments.
CADsortaGUY, if you read the next sentence after the words you quoted, I asked why is the mosque hurting anyone's feelings at all? If the reason is that Islam/Muslims are responsible for what happened on September 11, that is an unfair responsibility thrust onto us, and is not a valid reason.
Muslims are not a Nazi like war machine out to commit genocide. Tens of thousands of Muslims, hundreds even live peacefully as your neighbor as good Americans. It is wrong to brand us all based on the act of few. Every faith has had their extremists, even aethiests have had extremists.
Believe me, I personally know the builders of the community center and would there be one valid reason why this center should not be built, convince me and I will personally go speak with them and ask them to consider Trump's offer of buying out the place. (I can ask, doesnt mean they will do it).
They are afraid and frightened people require a demon.
We aren't much different than others. Doesn't make it OK, but there it is.
If they really did they wouldn't be so bothered to move the mosque a bit further out.
how much further is further? There was a mosque - Masjid Manhattan on Warren Street - one block away for years after 9/11 and Friday congretation would spill out in the streets. NO ONE objected for all the years.
The Warren Street mosque moved because the building they used was sold to become a condominium.
I don't blame you for not being able to see the insensitivity of it. The point is, how is it any different? Both acts can be seen as insensitive by certain groups even though both acts are entirely legal.
There was a mosque - Masjid Manhattan on Warren Street - one block away for years after 9/11 and Friday congretation would spill out in the streets. NO ONE objected for all the years.
Trump's suggestion was adequate.
Those were the bush years.
Enlighten me please. I'd also like to know your thoughts about the Warren Street mosque and why you didnt see that as insensitive or offensive?
Apparently you should be able to answer that yourself since you agree the current mosque site should be moved?
CADsortaGUY, not only do I not see the insensitivity, but in my opinion, if I as a member of the Muslim community DO agree that the mosque should move to respect the sensitivities, I am agreeing in principle that the WTC incident was somehow my, and my faith's responsibility.
That is just WRONG.
And by your own logic, because you attribute the mosque towards the act of 9/11, should Muslims then attribute the Quran burning as a symbol of American hatred towards Islam? Thats quite a perverse thought.