A protest condemned in San Franciso?

[Starbuck1975]

Basiclly the biggest trollfest IRL imaginable to annoy the hell outta the residents.

The same could be said for numerous "protests"...so for causes you support, these protests are necessary and justified, but when you don't agree, they are trollfests. :roll:

Senseamp, in San Francisco we realize we have to deal with sewage. But, we're allowed to say we don't like it. "Being tolerant" doesn't mean you have to agree with something and refrain from saying how absolutely stupid and repugnant it is.

:thumbsup:
There are a lot of groups and ideologies I wish would go away in America, particularly those with hate speech or other agendas that continue to splinter our society into racial and cultural demographics...but in America, even those we disagree with have a right to be heard, just as we have a right to dismiss them.

 

[Train]

This is the same town that threw a hissy fit over Arnold saying "Girlie men" in an interview. Not a big surprise.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

Basiclly the biggest trollfest IRL imaginable to annoy the hell outta the residents.

The same could be said for numerous "protests"...so for causes you support, these protests are necessary and justified, but when you don't agree, they are trollfests. :roll:

Senseamp, in San Francisco we realize we have to deal with sewage. But, we're allowed to say we don't like it. "Being tolerant" doesn't mean you have to agree with something and refrain from saying how absolutely stupid and repugnant it is.

:thumbsup:
There are a lot of groups and ideologies I wish would go away in America, particularly those with hate speech or other agendas that continue to splinter our society into racial and cultural demographics...but in America, even those we disagree with have a right to be heard, just as we have a right to dismiss them.

That is fine, but sending nazis into black neighborhoods and stuff like this is no less then provoking trouble, and people know this, If stuff goes down it is not a matter of free speech it is knowingly using the excuse of free speech to start trouble.

That is manipulating our freedoms to further a cause, not expressing yourself.

This is a grey area that is worth debate imo.

 

[Starbuck1975]

That is fine, but sending nazis into black neighborhoods and stuff like this is no less then provoking trouble, and people know this, If stuff goes down it is not a matter of free speech it is knowingly using the excuse of free speech to start trouble.

True, but you are making a personal determination on what is valid free speech...who gets to determine what is acceptable and what is manipulative or provocative.

By your criteria, the Civil Rights and Womans movement would be unacceptable because by their very nature, they HAD to be provocative to bring about meaningful social change.

Unfortunately, in keeping the flood gates open to allow meaningful free speech, the occasional Nazis or Skinheads slip through the cracks...but our society generally dismisses those fringe groups for what they are anyway.

 

[Steeplerot]

This is kinda like, I dont like someone, so how far can I express my free speech in showing? Sure, it is ok to just say you are wrong, But can I punch their teeth out?

It comes down to when is expressing free speech border on ones right to pursuit of a happy life and all that, provoking someone is obviously stepping over the line.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Is it ok to just say you are wrong, or can I punch their teeth out?

If you want to risk getting your ass kicked, sure go for it.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

Is it ok to just say you are wrong, or can I punch their teeth out?

If you want to risk getting your ass kicked, sure go for it.

It is a rhetorical question, but I think you get my point of provoking one to make a point of view known. Starting a all out brawl solves nothing as far as debate, matter of fact it is the point where rational debate ends and anarchy starts.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
While I may not agree with everything this group stands for, or any other group holding a rally in San Franciso - I do respect their right to march or protest to get their message out.

And you're crying and trying to make some obscure point about your own pathetic agenda because they got exactly that?

Aww....

Ah, so the measure of "tolerance" is not stopping someone?

Yes, as a matter of fact, as long as the entire event remained peaceful, it is. Disagreement and contention are the very essence of "protest." The hallmark of a free society isn't remaining silent; it's allowing all sides to be heard, even religious whackoids imported to create a bogus media moment like this parade.

Here -- You need more...

Great! That should stop just about any charge of "intolerance" we see here in P&N. Thanks for clearing up my misunderstanding of the word "tolerance" flavio. Much appreciated.

You don't have much to worry about when it comes to gaining any understanding. Sorry we don't have a little milk icon to go with your cookies.

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
btw soggy, its San FrancisCo at least remember the c (or k),

you could have at least make your mistake look like a reich wing cliche smear like fransicko......







What a amateur

What *an* amateur?

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: arsbanned


What *an* amateur?

I plead the sticky N key fifth your honor.
ok ok I admit!
My girlfriend made me spill it!

Damn her in her overzealous mountain dew serving over my keyboard.

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
It seems to me this is a non issue, and shades is just looking to pick a fight over nothing.

Say it ain't so!

 

[Starbuck1975]

It is a rhetorical question, but I think you get my point of provoking one to make a point of view known. Starting a all out brawl solves nothing as far as debate, matter of fact it is the point where rational debate ends and anarchy starts.

Agreed, although there are belligerent troublemakers in any group...if I remember correctly, you are an avid supporter of WTO protestors...even the most noble or justified of causes have those in their ranks who have a tendency towards violent behavior.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

It is a rhetorical question, but I think you get my point of provoking one to make a point of view known. Starting a all out brawl solves nothing as far as debate, matter of fact it is the point where rational debate ends and anarchy starts.

Agreed, although there are belligerent troublemakers in any group...if I remember correctly, you are an avid supporter of WTO protestors...even the most noble or justified of causes have those in their ranks who have a tendency towards violent behavior.

I never denied that SF has a black bloc element, I even said it is well know they consider civil disobediance standard fare, (and have even had a thread about it a year or two ago when I was there in it)

Anyhow, I was speaking of when does it go from someone speaking out or someone manipulating the system to further a cause.

The black bloc does not cause havoc inside of a peaceful march, the term "break off" is the term for black bloc actions, as they LEAVE to set themselves apart, and are not doing what they do to provoke the standard hippie liberal types into a riot or the fascist right wing counterprotesters, but as a form of independent protest away, preferably away from cops too who they of course wish not to provoke.

A riot like WTO is the end to a demonstration, when civil discourse has lost hold and mob mentality is king, and it always starts by provoking one side or the other into a heated crux, it is considered bad form from every event I have been to to provoke the other side, be they cops or republican protestfascists.

 

[WHAMPOM]

So, the whole point of this thread is the San Francisco practice of intolerance of intolerance.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
So, the whole point of this thread is the San Francisco practice of intolerance of intolerance.

I see no intolerance, noone forced them out and even gave them the steps of city hall to have their little youth rally on.

The anarchists were pissed but practiced restraint to not give into to what the little hitler youth cultists wanted which is exposure and a confrontation to feed the "flames" of their cause.

 

[Starbuck1975]

The anarchists were pissed but practiced restraint to not give into to what the little hitler youth cultists wanted which is exposure and a confrontation to feed the "flames" of their cause.

Having read a little more about this protest, why exactly are they Hitler youth...reading the article a little closer, it seems that this group organized to protest the culture of sex and violence in popular culture...while I may not necessarily agree with the fire and brimstone rhetoric of the Evangelical community, their message is actually a fairly positive one.

 

[Steeplerot]

See if you can find their videos on a torrent search its downright violent cultish in a very naziesque imagery way to boot.

These 25k kids are not your standard church group out for a picnic in SF.

Check out the imagery and words and methods spoken on a PR campaign flyer. Then compare to old nazi youth propaganda. Extremism is on the rise here in a big way.

 

[shrumpage]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
See if you can find their videos on a torrent search its downright violent cultish in a very naziesque imagery way to boot.

These 25k kids are not your standard church group out for a picnic in SF.

Check out the imagery and words and methods spoken on a PR campaign flyer. Then compare to old nazi youth propaganda. Extremism is on the rise here in a big way.

I think it is quite ironic that these people you keep equating to hitler youth - share some of the same beliefs as you - particularly when it comes to commericalism.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: shrumpage

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
See if you can find their videos on a torrent search its downright violent cultish in a very naziesque imagery way to boot.

These 25k kids are not your standard church group out for a picnic in SF.

Check out the imagery and words and methods spoken on a PR campaign flyer. Then compare to old nazi youth propaganda. Extremism is on the rise here in a big way.

I think it is quite ironic that these people you keep equating to hitler youth - share some of the same beliefs as you - particularly when it comes to commericalism.

That is a red herring from them, they are about as far from anti-commercialism as can be, as long as it is their own brand of product.

It's a freakin 199$ to get into this rally in SF.

Oh yeah, dont forget A curriculum geared to make your teens Warriors for Christ in 7 weeks -Only 45$!

And of course an ipod cover becasue jesus weeps at the thought of his followers having a plain looking ipod..

 

[Starbuck1975]

Check out the imagery and words and methods spoken on a PR campaign flyer. Then compare to old nazi youth propaganda. Extremism is on the rise here in a big way.

I don't fear extremism, because in this country, such ideology tends to raise numerous issues to the forefront of debate in our society.

I think there is a problem with the way our society accepts violence and voyeuristic entertainment, yet is hopelessly uptight about sexuality.

Just because you don't approve of the methods employed by a particular group does not necessarily mean that their behavior is not beneficial to society...even if, in this case, it causes a counter movement that balances the equation and addresses the issue.

 

[marincounty]

I'm kind of mystified why the SF Giants, owners of AT&T Park, rented their facility to this kind of group. This is a slap in the face to most San Franciscans.
It's like if a big Lesbian and Gay freedom meeting were booked in Tennessee.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: marincounty
I'm kind of mystified why the SF Giants, owners of AT&T Park, rented their facility to this kind of group. This is a slap in the face to most San Franciscans.
It's like if a big Lesbian and Gay freedom meeting were booked in Tennessee.

What corporation doesent love cold hard apointed GOP flunky cash.

At least SF didnt have the RNC there humping the corpses of dead relatives arresting everyone in sight like here in NYC, could be much worse.

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
I don't fear extremism, because in this country, such ideology tends to raise numerous issues to the forefront of debate in our society.

I think there is a problem with the way our society accepts violence and voyeuristic entertainment, yet is hopelessly uptight about sexuality.

Just because you don't approve of the methods employed by a particular group does not necessarily mean that their behavior is not beneficial to society...even if, in this case, it causes a counter movement that balances the equation and addresses the issue.

The original post tried make an issue that people complained and call it intolerance. People complain about every protest.

This is probably a little more annoying than if the city was visited by a huge mass of Jehova's Witnesses.... of course people will complain.

 

[shrumpage]

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
I don't fear extremism, because in this country, such ideology tends to raise numerous issues to the forefront of debate in our society.

I think there is a problem with the way our society accepts violence and voyeuristic entertainment, yet is hopelessly uptight about sexuality.

Just because you don't approve of the methods employed by a particular group does not necessarily mean that their behavior is not beneficial to society...even if, in this case, it causes a counter movement that balances the equation and addresses the issue.

The original post tried make an issue that people complained and call it intolerance. People complain about every protest.

This is probably a little more annoying than if the city was visited by a huge mass of Jehova's Witnesses.... of course people will complain.

People do complain about groups and gatherings all the time, what makes this different is the city offically condemned the group. Could you imagine the fall out if a city offically condemned a group of muslims, homosexuals, PETA or any other group?

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: shrumpage

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
I don't fear extremism, because in this country, such ideology tends to raise numerous issues to the forefront of debate in our society.

I think there is a problem with the way our society accepts violence and voyeuristic entertainment, yet is hopelessly uptight about sexuality.

Just because you don't approve of the methods employed by a particular group does not necessarily mean that their behavior is not beneficial to society...even if, in this case, it causes a counter movement that balances the equation and addresses the issue.

The original post tried make an issue that people complained and call it intolerance. People complain about every protest.

This is probably a little more annoying than if the city was visited by a huge mass of Jehova's Witnesses.... of course people will complain.

People do complain about groups and gatherings all the time, what makes this different is the city offically condemned the group. Could you imagine the fall out if a city offically condemned a group of muslims, homosexuals, PETA or any other group?

Nothing less then a hate group targeting SF because of it population totally different and the city did not condemm it. Please show me the mayors quote.

The guy was making a remark and not one on the record, it is pretty tasteless that they targeted SF to spread hate to people that never invited them in the first place.