A question about religion .. and some other stuff

[thirtythree]

I've lost faith in my religion but am wondering how am I ever supposed to know for sure that it isn't true? What is the point of life if there is no God? Just to get as much pleasure out of it as possible? Then we die and it is over? Bah .. oh well. Another thing is my parents are pretty religious (we go to church every week and such) and I don't want them to feel like they are failures or something.

While I'm worrying about myself, I would also like some advice on getting friends. Obviously spend less time on the computer but I have always had social problems besides and been "shy" (I hate that word). Maybe a big part of it is that I don't like most other people and I don't want to be involved in their lives. Also I often get nervous when doing something in front of people or even when just talking to other people so I tend to just keep my mouth closed even if I would like to say something. I'm 17 and I've been on one date and to like 2 parties (not including LAN parties or birthday parties and such when I was a kid). So pretty much I'm a loser but it doesn't generally bother me. Anyway .. how are your lives going?

 

[yoda291]

As far as religion goes, I have no confidence in the church, but not my religion...because I'm pretty sure there's something greater than I am out there. Even greater than skoorb, Even greater than Hopper's nef ability. Even greater than RossMan's hot deals...prolly. I just don't think the church is the best representation of it. I figure you have to sort out what exactly you DO believe in.

As far as social conditions. my advice is confidence. Use it. If you don't have it, fake it. It's one of the few things you can pick up by faking it first.

 

[thirtythree]

Originally posted by: yoda291
...because I'm pretty sure there's something greater than I am out there. Even greater than skoorb, Even greater than Hopper's nef ability. Even greater than RossMan's hot deals...prolly.

Well thanks for making me laugh.

As for the rest of your post .. what do you mean by what I believe in? I believe in family. I believe in honesty and treating others with respect. I believe in God? Not at the moment. What other "something greater" are you referring to?

And how do I fake confidence? The problem is I've become so used to saying nothing it is a habit. It just won't come out. I go over saying something in my head until the opportunity passes me by.

Thanks for reading and for the reply.

 

[yoda291]

for your beliefs, you're going to just have to sit yourself down somewhere quiet and think about things. What do you believe in? Why do you wake up in the morning? If you're renouncing you religious belief, there's usually a reason. Why do you not believe in your religion anymore? Why doesn't it make sense? If you think it's dumb, why? More likely than not, you form opinions on many things. What do you think of education? What do you think of society? Your beliefs are pretty much just your opinions mushed together. They change as you grow and they can't really be wrong because they're just what you think and conclusions you've come to on your own.

As far as faking confidence...it's kind of like when you go to a job interview. Regardless of how shy you are, you don't want to put down the impression that you are timid and reserved and unable to think, so you speak regardless. It's awkward at first, but just say something. If it's really a bad thing for you to do, just do the opposite of what you do. Instead of shutting up, say SOMETHING. Over time, it breaks you out of the shy habit and speaking becomes easier. You won't need to fake it simply because you're not really uncomfortable talking to people or doing things because you've already gotten over the mystique and unknown of it. But at first, just focus on giving a confident impression to the other person, over time, the fake confidence develops into real confidence. Have pride in what you know and what you believe in, but don't be afraid to learn. On occassion, people will not agree with you, instead of brooding or whatnot, call them out on it and discuss, you learn about the other person and sometimes become fast friends once you understand each other. most of the guys here don't seem to have any confidence when it comes to women, but would prolly get more play if they just spoke to them.

 

[thirtythree]

Why do you not believe in your religion anymore? I never really believed in my religion. I've just been playing along because my parents told me it was true.
Why do you wake up in the morning? Hope for a brighter future.
What do you think of education? It's important so you can get a good job and support a family.
What do you think of society? Blah ..

Another thing is that I live in Utah and am currently a member of the LDS church. If I left the church I would be even more of an outcast. I've noticed different attitudes toward me because of things less drastic than leaving the church. That's religion for you. FYI: my school is over 90% LDS.

As far as faking confidence...it's kind of like when you go to a job interview. Bad example
I suck at job interviews.

I often promise myself that I'm just going to say what is on my mind (e.g. say hi to someone in class on the first day of school) but I can't force it out. :|

 

[yoda291]

Originally posted by: Deslocke
Why do you not believe in your religion anymore? I never really believed in my religion. I've just been playing along because my parents told me it was true.
Why do you wake up in the morning? Hope for a brighter future.
What do you think of education? It's important so you can get a good job and support a family.
What do you think of society? Blah ..

Another thing is that I live in Utah and am currently a member of the LDS church. If I left the church I would be even more of an outcast. I've noticed different attitudes toward me because of things less drastic than leaving the church. That's religion for you. FYI: my school is over 90% LDS.

As far as faking confidence...it's kind of like when you go to a job interview. Bad example
I suck at job interviews.

I often promise myself that I'm just going to say what is on my mind (e.g. say hi to someone in class on the first day of school) but I can't force it out. :|

If you hope for a brighter future, then you should have an idea of what brighter future is. If you think education is important because you want a good job and family, why are these things important to you. I can't really tell you how to figure out what you believe in, but I can tell you that you have them, just criticize everything in your head and they come out. Just ask yourself why you do or don't agree with something. Form an opinion on everything...even if it's an "I don't care" opinion, why don't you care?

As far as the confidence thing, put a conversation topic in your head and start off with that. If you're not comfortable starting off with just "hi", then go with, Hey, are you LDS? -> prolly yes -> then ask them about something that doesn't really make sense to you(I was wondering...do you know that thing about such and such...etc). It doesn't have to be about religion, it could be about ANYTHING you want because most people are more than willing to give out their opinions so long as they don't feel like they're being criticized. Listen to that person, and then give them feedback and questions. The key is to understand what they're saying. Focus more on learning something, even if it ultimately looks to be something stupid or useless, learning always serves a purpose. Heck, you can even see it in this forum....people spew out their opinions as free as jaybirds here and face agreement, criticism, cynicism, and jibs all in the span of a few minutes.

 

[Anubis]

Why do you not believe in your religion anymore? : I never beleived in religion. i went to chirch till i was 6. then we stopped going cause we had other things to do. i decided on my own that religion wasent for me because IMHO its a bunch of crap. Im a scientest and beleive in evolution
Why do you wake up in the morning? : because my body wont let me sleep any longer. and because there are things that need to be done. and because i have to eat
What do you think of education? : im incollege. went to college because thats what peopel do after they get out of HS. and after college ill get a job. because that what you do
]What do you think of society?: i think society sucks. as a whole society is liek a chicken with its head cut off. everyone conforms and there is no individual and i want nothing to do withit
As far as faking confidence...it's kind of like when you go to a job interview. : i dont know ive never had one

 

[thirtythree]

Well I'll have to work on this forming of opinions stuff tomorrow . I'm tired. Thanks again yoda .. or Kyung Cho .. or whatever your real name is. Goodnight.

 

[yoda291]

Originally posted by: TheEvil1
Why do you not believe in your religion anymore? : I never beleived in religion. i went to chirch till i was 6. then we stopped going cause we had other things to do. i decided on my own that religion wasent for me because IMHO its a bunch of crap. Im a scientest and beleive in evolution -- so your belief system includes evolution
Why do you wake up in the morning? : because my body wont let me sleep any longer. and because there are things that need to be done. and because i have to eat. -- not exactly what I meant, but ok
What do you think of education? : im incollege. went to college because thats what peopel do after they get out of HS. and after college ill get a job. because that what you do -- what about people who don't go to college? How do they fit in? Especially the ones that find success without a college education
]What do you think of society?: i think society sucks. as a whole society is liek a chicken with its head cut off. everyone conforms and there is no individual and i want nothing to do withit -- so you're saying society has no function for you and you choose not to associate with anyone?
As far as faking confidence...it's kind of like when you go to a job interview. : i dont know ive never had one -- you will and I think my point still stands. At any given function of that sort, you want to give off a certain impression.

actually, I think my point still stands as I replied to deslocke...you have a certain belief system that varies from mine. It is formulated from your opinions on varied things and prolly doesn't agree with mine...but you gave out varied pieces of what you believe in response to my questions.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Deslocke
I've lost faith in my religion but am wondering how am I ever supposed to know for sure that it isn't true? What is the point of life if there is no God? Just to get as much pleasure out of it as possible? Then we die and it is over? Bah .. oh well. Another thing is my parents are pretty religious (we go to church every week and such) and I don't want them to feel like they are failures or something.

You don't know, that's what makes life fun. If you are sure of everything, what's the point of life? Life is a mystery waiting to be solved, and if you can't solve it, just enjoy it. There might be something greater out there, or not. Look for it, but don't become distressed if you don't find it. It is the journey, not the destination, that makes life great. Obviously I'm in the minority with the religious "I've got all the answers" people, but I think that if there is a God, he gave us this great problem solving brain for a reason. He doesn't expect us to latch on to something just because we are told it is true or it sounds good. You are thinking for yourself and questioning what you believe, good for you. Keep it up!

While I'm worrying about myself, I would also like some advice on getting friends. Obviously spend less time on the computer but I have always had social problems besides and been "shy" (I hate that word). Maybe a big part of it is that I don't like most other people and I don't want to be involved in their lives. Also I often get nervous when doing something in front of people or even when just talking to other people so I tend to just keep my mouth closed even if I would like to say something. I'm 17 and I've been on one date and to like 2 parties (not including LAN parties or birthday parties and such when I was a kid). So pretty much I'm a loser but it doesn't generally bother me. Anyway .. how are your lives going?

[/quote]
As for this problem, here is my simple, one step approach to making more friends. Do stuff that you normally wouldn't do. I know it's hard, but there is not easy way to change who you are. If you get invited to a party but don't really want to go, go anyways and tell yourself you're going to enjoy it. You will, trust me. I know, I used to be the same way.

But don't go overboard. Like I said before, it's important to think for yourself and be who you are. Going with the crowd is good sometimes, but I think people miss out on a lot by treating life like it is some kind of tour where you have to hit all these spots to enjoy it. Do what you want, and don't let anyone tell you that you "should" be doing something else.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

I hope to make the lives of those I care about a bit easier. If I lose them I'll end the misery.

 

[BatmanNate]

Originally posted by: TheEvil1
Why do you not believe in your religion anymore? : I never beleived in religion. i went to chirch till i was 6. then we stopped going cause we had other things to do. i decided on my own that religion wasent for me because IMHO its a bunch of crap. Im a scientest and beleive in evolution
Why do you wake up in the morning? : because my body wont let me sleep any longer. and because there are things that need to be done. and because i have to eat
What do you think of education? : im incollege. went to college because thats what peopel do after they get out of HS. and after college ill get a job. because that what you do
]What do you think of society?: i think society sucks. as a whole society is liek a chicken with its head cut off. everyone conforms and there is no individual and i want nothing to do withit
As far as faking confidence...it's kind of like when you go to a job interview. : i dont know ive never had one

That's really ironic. Society sucks because of conformity, but you went to college because that's what people do when they get out of high school.

 

[DougyDanger]

I'm guessing you are still in HS or about that age. Try finding a new church. One with an active youth group. While some can be cliquey and rude, most are open and full of people who are very friendly. The one I help out with has over 150 kids that come (not all at the same time though). And thats small by some standards (like the 20,000 person church I was at this past weekend). If you were to walk into mine it would just mintutes before some perky blonde introduced herself and then took you around introducing you to other people. In no time you'd find the other LAN party guys, computer 'geeks', and others who you'd share a lot with. You'd then have the chance to do social activities with this group as well as the religious side of things. You'd kill two birds with one stone. My church is an "EVangelical Free". They have a VERY actice youth groups. Look in the yellow pages, you may have one near you. Or look for Baptist, Presbyterian (PCA, NOT PC USA), or similar evangelical church. I see you are from Utah....avoid mormon churches. Their doctrine (biblical teaching) is very wrong. But thats a whole different thread.


While Im at it...this brings up another thing...no matter how shy/quiet/insecure/etc you are, the popular types feel the same way often. Fact is, people are people. Don't be so worried about who you are, concentrate on treating others the way you want to be treated and good things happen. SUre some people are just jerks, but why let their opinion of you matter?

 

[3L33T32003]

Another thing is that I live in Utah and am currently a member of the LDS church. If I left the church I would be even more of an outcast. I've noticed different attitudes toward me because of things less drastic than leaving the church. That's religion for you. FYI: my school is over 90% LDS.

GEE AREN'T THE RELIGIOUS TYPES SUPPOSED TO HATE THE SIN BUT LOVE THE SINNER?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Oh yeah they have higher justification...

Gotta stop typing now or I will say something to get banned.

 

[alkemyst]

There is a few things first to consider....1) Almost everything we TRULY believe in we were taught to TRULY believe in by our parents/up bringers. We had no real choice in it.

Organized religion likes that aspect....

Now besides that the questions are twofold: 1) Do you believe in God(s) or a Higher Power(s)? 2) Do you believe in the religion you choose?

That said I recommend everyone looking into 2112, The Serpent Rouge, Chateau Rennes, Emerald Tablets, Hiram Key, Oak Island, Templars, etc.

It's a scary journey.

----

For the record since I am often called an agnostic or atheist....I do believe their is a God/Creator of things, I also believe he / she / it would not have made things a status quo, so I also believe in evolution. I believe in life else where and I believe that nothing in print about it all is accurate.

 

[gopunk]

deslocke -

from an atheist standpoint, i believe that you're fine if you try to be a good person. everything else (religion, whatnot) is secondary.

 

[dquan97]

Originally posted by: DougyDanger
I'm guessing you are still in HS or about that age. Try finding a new church. One with an active youth group. While some can be cliquey and rude, most are open and full of people who are very friendly. The one I help out with has over 150 kids that come (not all at the same time though). And thats small by some standards (like the 20,000 person church I was at this past weekend). If you were to walk into mine it would just mintutes before some perky blonde introduced herself and then took you around introducing you to other people. In no time you'd find the other LAN party guys, computer 'geeks', and others who you'd share a lot with. You'd then have the chance to do social activities with this group as well as the religious side of things. You'd kill two birds with one stone. My church is an "EVangelical Free". They have a VERY actice youth groups. Look in the yellow pages, you may have one near you. Or look for Baptist, Presbyterian (PCA, NOT PC USA), or similar evangelical church. I see you are from Utah....avoid mormon churches. Their doctrine (biblical teaching) is very wrong. But thats a whole different thread.


While Im at it...this brings up another thing...no matter how shy/quiet/insecure/etc you are, the popular types feel the same way often. Fact is, people are people. Don't be so worried about who you are, concentrate on treating others the way you want to be treated and good things happen. SUre some people are just jerks, but why let their opinion of you matter?

I agree, and try to look for a small church (200-300ppl)...My church (Baptist affiliated) has a small attendance compared to others, but everyone is so close-knit that there aren't any cliques. Our college group is about 10 people, and so is the High School group. This would be a good start

As for your self-confidence, remember God's promises for you...

So we may boldly say: "The Lord is my helper; I will not fear. WHat can man do to me?" Hebrews 13:6
Being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ Philippians 1:6

PM me if you want to talk

 

[Josephus]

Originally posted by: gopunk
deslocke -

from an atheist standpoint, i believe that you're fine if you try to be a good person. everything else (religion, whatnot) is secondary.

If course from a Christian perspective this is a friutless endeavour, for we will never be good enough. We rely on the grace of God to assist us in becoming consistently better. .

 

[Nocturnal]

I'm a self claimed Christian but like the original poster of this post I seem to have lost some faight in my lord. I try hard and I still pray but I still have to wonder sometimes what it's like after you're dead.

I just try my hardest to keep the faith as that's all I can do.

 

[thirtythree]

Well, I'm going to give this letter to my parents tonight. I'm not sure how well it will go over ..

I love my family and don?t wish to cause them any pain. I hope to have a family of my own some day and to have a good job so that I can provide for them.

I believe in treating others with respect. I don?t ever intend to put anyone down because of their beliefs and hope others will show me the same respect.

So this is how I feel about the church: I think it teaches some good things but I have been trying to figure out for myself whether it is true or not without any success. I don?t believe it is true and I don?t want to go on pretending to believe in something that I don?t. I know it is possible to be a good person and live a fulfilling life without any specific religion.

Thanks for your understanding. It?s not your fault. You should be proud that you raised a kid who can form opinions of his own.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: Deslocke
I've lost faith in my religion but am wondering how am I ever supposed to know for sure that it isn't true? What is the point of life if there is no God?

Why is it that there has to be a point?
[edit]
As far as confidence and being shy, one way to try to get over it might be to go to a sit-down restaurant (probably a Denny's if there's any still around there) sometime between 10PM and 4AM... order something, sit down, look around at the people. Find a group that looks interesting to you, walk over, and say "Mind if I sit?"
If they say yes, sit there and just chime in to whatever conversations when you feel you can...
If they say no, or they decide they don't like you, big loss, they're complete strangers you'll probably never see again.
But do that a few times, and it may help you out.

 

[thirtythree]

So you think Denny's is a good place to meet people late at night? .. hmm.

 

[Alistar7]

"Even greater than skoorb, Even greater than Hopper's nef ability. Even greater than RossMan's hot deals...prolly. "




BLASPHEMY

you are hereby confined to AOL........

 

[alkemyst]

If they don't want to talk at Denny's you can always ask them if they want to go back to your car or get a room somewhere...it's a win-win situation. They get religion either way.

 

[oznerol]

I don't really post often, but you sound freakishly like me so I will shed some light from my perspective in hopes that I will help you attain yours.

My parents are very religious as well, horribly close-minded but absolutely respectable, incredible people. I stopped going to church with them about a year and a half ago, and they hated the concept. I felt as though they saw me as some hell-bound heathen or something. The disagreed with my views but once I showed them that I wasn't losing religion out of inconvienience or some petty reason, and that I actually did some research and soul-searching, they respected my decision. I think you should do the same. And if you haven't done any research on religion, say, the Koran, the Bible, evolutionary theory, whatever, then I think you should. You need to test all the waters to see what makes sense to you.

As far as the meaning of life goes. My opinion, at least for now, is the existence of God is a manifestation of society. The quest for heaven and the fear of hell are tools used to not only scare people to lean towards a societies ways, but also to give life a sense of purpose and meaning. From my standpoint, this altruism that religion and society in general promote are ideally good things, but people aren't unselfish. Altruism exists only when it benefits the giver in some way. Which is contrary to the term altruism altogether, but whatever.

People are selfish, self-absorbed, and self-interested. From a biological standpoint, our purpose in life is to proliferate the species. However, from an evolutionary standpoint, not just to proliferate the species, but to proliferate the life of your own genes. Everything we do is either to increase our status (which leads to more opprotunities to proliferate our genes), or to proliferate our own lives. So, if you want to look to science for a meaning, there you go, have sex, and as much of it as possible.

Anyway, this is way longer than any post should be, but far, far too short to try and explain evolutionary psychology or the meaning of life.

As far as getting friends, you need to lose the "shyness". You sound a lot like me, and I've basically diagnosed myself with social anxiety. In social situations my heart rate increases, I get nervous, basically feel like I'm going to die. The way I've worked around it is to look at people like nothing more than just that. They are people. Many are idiots, many are narrow-minded, but they all want the same thing. And that is to be happy. As well as to tell their story. So as the trite phrase goes, "interested is interesting." Put up with listening to their crap, like you are doing to me, and they will in turn enjoy your company.

Whatever, if you want to talk IM me or something. That is all.